AVS Forum banner

45241 - 45260 of 57960 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
I know, right? What a bunch of crazy people. I've never second guessed my PSA subs, they work great!







Though, in all fairness, I am having my house upgraded from 100 to 200 amp service next week so I can add more subs :D
Cant' these parent teacher conferences end soon??? I have 2 subs that are screaming for calibration !!!


Ugh.


:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
Hi Guys,

I've seen some confusion on this recently when the suggestion has been made.

The most important bit to understand is if you ran Audyssey and it determined the 2 subwoofers were the same distance from the microphone, and set them to the same level, there won't be any difference. In many cases the different interaction with the room and other factors cause Audyssey to set 2 identical subwoofers in the front corners, flanking the center channel, or at the rear corners to different distances and/or at different levels. If the subs are the same type, and especially if they are set symmetrically about the front wall, you WANT them to get the identical signal for the following reasons:

1 - All the explanation in Todd Welti's Harmon multi-subwoofer study assumed identical signals to all subwoofers in the room. One of the benefits is that the symmetrical subwoofers interact to cancel the even modes in that dimension, in this case the width of the room. By feeding different signals, you throw off the cancellation of these width modes and the benefits of smoothing the response along the width of the room.
2 - If you set the subwoofers to different levels electrically (=surround processor and volume knob position) one subwoofer works harder than the other, and your limits will be set by the subwoofer set louder. If the settings are significantly different, you are throwing away much of the increased headroom from your second subwoofer.
3 - I still suspect the implementation of Audyssey in most surround processors doesn't quite do what they suggest is done when setting multiple subwoofers based on the measurements after running. Any time you can give Audyssey a single entity to correct the response of, I've observed better results that match what is expected.

On the matter of #3 , I have never been able to confirm that the receiver has the delay settings in the signal chain when they take measurements of dual subwoofer outputs after the initial ping sets level and distances. Yes, they are supposed to, but measurements I've seen after running Audyssey often don't correlate. The bigger issue is that at subwoofer frequencies, we aren't really looking for alignment of sound arrival, but rather phase matching and summation due to phase differences. Which sub is closer simply guides us in which direction it makes sense to apply that delay.

To quickly recap for the case at hand, just check the level and distance settings after running Audyssey. If the 2 subs are set the same, that's no different than using a Y splitter.
Thanks for weighing in Mark!


This is obviously why the Y-adapter works so well in my room, because my SubMersives are symmetrically placed, gain matched and exactly equidistant to the MLP and Audyssey consistently sets my Left subwoofer further away than my right (usually 2' ) and sets the levels differently.


So if I'm reading it correctly Mark, if someone didn't want to climb behind their entertainment unit and install an RCA splitter - or wanted to see if they will benefit from this before they do - you get the same results as using the splitter if you manually change the distances and level to be exactly the same as each other post Audyssey?

cheers
Jamie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Warning: My first AVS Forum Post

Hello,

I ordered my first PSA sub (V1811) and I am now patiently (checking my email every hour for a shipment notification and annoying Tom almost every other day in chat for updates) waiting for it to arrive. I have never owned a "big boy" sub despite being involved in home theater for well over a decade. Right now I have two - 10" Klipsch subwoofers that are less than $150. They make a surprising amount of noise and rattle my house quite a bit. Im here to ask fellow owners of PSA subs what to expect going from a dual little subs to a V1811. Should I be as excited as I am or hone my expectations? I do plan on adding a second V1811 in the future. I attached a picture of the little guys with the rest of my gear for reference. Thanks all =)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
500 Posts
Welcome to AVS and the PSA family. Be Excited!


Warning: My first AVS Forum Post

Hello,

I ordered my first PSA sub (V1811) and I am now patiently (checking my email every hour for a shipment notification and annoying Tom almost every other day in chat for updates) waiting for it to arrive. I have never owned a "big boy" sub despite being involved in home theater for well over a decade. Right now I have two - 10" Klipsch subwoofers that are less than $150. They make a surprising amount of noise and rattle my house quite a bit. Im here to ask fellow owners of PSA subs what to expect going from a dual little subs to a V1811. Should I be as excited as I am or hone my expectations? I do plan on adding a second V1811 in the future. I attached a picture of the little guys with the rest of my gear for reference. Thanks all =)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
Yep. I have been patiently waiting for Jeff's comparison review. I'm sure we will swoop in here shortly and give his comparison of dual S3601's and V3611's. Like I said in a previous post what are your goals? Reference down to what frequency? David wants lower extension and he likes how sealed subs sound with music.
Good question. I couldn't really answer that a few hours ago but I can now. What happened in the last few hours you may wonder? Well... I'll tell you. I just watched Blade Runner 2049 in Dolby Atmos and it reminded me of a few things. They are:

1. Holy Smokes!! The dual V3601's are incredible. I started that movie and right off the bat I said to myself "What was I thinking... I love these ported beasts!!" The way they create monstrous energy in the room is something I absolutely love.

2. Atmos is something I highly recommend to everyone. BR 2049 in Atmos is one of the most (if not THE most) immersive movies I'ver ever experienced. The way it uses the ceiling speakers to envelope you in it's electronic futuristic eerie soundtrack is something to behold.

3. The Crowsons are the icing on the cake. On a slab I've come to believe they are an essential piece of equipment to get a full tactile experience. They take a great movie experience and make it exceptional.

So Mike... to answer your question about what my goals are? Nothing really. As you know, every six months or so I start wondering what a set of sealed subs would sound like in the HT and then I play something like BR 2049 and all is right with the world again.

I think my problem is I haven't bought a sub in over a year now and I'm really going through some serious withdrawal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
I know, right? What a bunch of crazy people. I've never second guessed my PSA subs, they work great!
No doubt. But to be clear its not about doubting the subs its about always considering upgrading to different PSA subs to get even more bass (even though sane people tell you you already have too much bass).

This is subwoofer stuff is an illness and this thread is full of some seriously contagious bass heads. Hanging out here is like walking around a hospital during a flu epidemic and inhaling deeply, do it long enough and you're GOING to catch the illness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,378 Posts
Warning: My first AVS Forum Post

Hello,

I ordered my first PSA sub (V1811) and I am now patiently (checking my email every hour for a shipment notification and annoying Tom almost every other day in chat for updates) waiting for it to arrive. I have never owned a "big boy" sub despite being involved in home theater for well over a decade. Right now I have two - 10" Klipsch subwoofers that are less than $150. They make a surprising amount of noise and rattle my house quite a bit. Im here to ask fellow owners of PSA subs what to expect going from a dual little subs to a V1811. Should I be as excited as I am or hone my expectations? I do plan on adding a second V1811 in the future. I attached a picture of the little guys with the rest of my gear for reference. Thanks all =)
Welcome to AVS and the PSA family. Be Excited!
Oh yes.. be excited... VERY excited. (And maybe a little afraid). :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,345 Posts
Yep. I have been patiently waiting for Jeff's comparison review. I'm sure we will swoop in here shortly and give his comparison of dual S3601's and V3611's. Like I said in a previous post what are your goals? Reference down to what frequency? David wants lower extension and he likes how sealed subs sound with music.
Good question. I couldn't really answer that a few hours ago but I can now. What happened in the last few hours you may wonder? Well... I'll tell you. I just watched Blade Runner 2049 in Dolby Atmos and it reminded me of a few things. They are:

1. Holy Smokes!! The dual V3601's are incredible. I started that movie and right off the bat I said to myself "What was I thinking... I love these ported beasts!!" The way they create monstrous energy in the room is something I absolutely love.

2. Atmos is something I highly recommend to everyone. BR 2049 in Atmos is one of the most (if not THE most) immersive movies I'ver ever experienced. The way it uses the ceiling speakers to envelope you in it's electronic futuristic eerie soundtrack is something to behold.

3. The Crowsons are the icing on the cake. On a slab I've come to believe they are an essential piece of equipment to get a full tactile experience. They take a great movie experience and make it exceptional.

So Mike... to answer your question about what my goals are? Nothing really. As you know, every six months or so I start wondering what a set of sealed subs would sound like in the HT and then I play something like BR 2049 and all is right with the world again.

I think my problem is I haven't bought a sub in over a year now and I'm really going through some serious withdrawal.
I totally forgot u got the crowsons. Yeah that movie and its opening scene will put a smile on your face. Check out The Haunting of Hill House ( Atmos), it has great use of placing creeping sounds all around the room.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
Warning: My first AVS Forum Post

Hello,

I ordered my first PSA sub (V1811) and I am now patiently (checking my email every hour for a shipment notification and annoying Tom almost every other day in chat for updates) waiting for it to arrive. I have never owned a "big boy" sub despite being involved in home theater for well over a decade. Right now I have two - 10" Klipsch subwoofers that are less than $150. They make a surprising amount of noise and rattle my house quite a bit. Im here to ask fellow owners of PSA subs what to expect going from a dual little subs to a V1811. Should I be as excited as I am or hone my expectations? I do plan on adding a second V1811 in the future. I attached a picture of the little guys with the rest of my gear for reference. Thanks all =)
I went from a single Klipsch Sub-12 to a single PSA V1500 and the difference was night and day. I eventually added a second PSA V1500 and am now taking advantage of the upgrade program to move to V1811s. In all honesty, the single V1500 would satisfy the vast majority, but most of us on the forums aren't normal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
In process. No more symmetry up front. No way to make it play nice together. Going to opposite corners, which I know works. Will post before and after pics soon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I loved my symmetrically placed V1500s for a few weeks until I started playing with REW. Discovered that the 2nd sub wasn't adding a whole lot to the output and have since moved it into a better position. Ignorance was bliss for those few weeks though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Success! I have to admit I will miss the brief bout of symmetry I had on the front wall But, I knew the hotspot for my 2nd sub and it paid off. Im crossed at 100 hz and it soupnds super clean and clear. Gobs of headroom and Im jamming HARD!


I TRULY cant imagine going into a new sub or room, etc without measuring equipment... If id had put those two subs on the front wall and walked away, Id have had a 30 db drop at 30 to 37 hz (hot movie zone). I wont even post the graphs because they almost made me puke. I HAD to move the subs haha.



This is the graph of the subs caddy corner in the rear left and straight in the front right. These will be their final position.:)


Details: -10 on after audyssey on both subs and I cranked it to -9, Gain matched through REW and crossed at 100 hz. Ill listen for localization and adjust to 80 if so, had to slightly tweak room delay on the sub behind in the rear corner and it closed up some of the crossover "gap"



Happy!


Edit: updated graphs with 5 dB increments, yes it’s a picture from my phone :)


Double edit: OK I just had to post this.. The middle graph is where my response would’ve been with both subs on the front wall. The blue line is both subs as you can see and the other lines are each sub individually. Glad I have REW!!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,345 Posts
Success! I have to admit I will miss the brief bout of symmetry I had on the front wall But, I knew the hotspot for my 2nd sub and it paid off. Im crossed at 100 hz and it soupnds super clean and clear. Gobs of headroom and Im jamming HARD!


I TRULY cant imagine going into a new sub or room, etc without measuring equipment... If id had put those two subs on the front wall and walked away, Id have had a 30 db drop at 30 to 37 hz (hot movie zone). I wont even post the graphs because they almost made me puke. I HAD to move the subs haha.



This is the graph of the subs caddy corner in the rear left and straight in the front right. These will be their final position./forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Details: -10 on after audyssey on both subs and I cranked it to -9, Gain matched through REW and crossed at 100 hz. Ill listen for localization and adjust to 80 if so, had to slightly tweak room delay on the sub behind in the rear corner and it closed up some of the crossover "gap"



Happy!


Edit: updated graphs with 5 dB increments, yes it’s a picture from my phone /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif


Double edit: OK I just had to post this.. The middle graph is where my response would’ve been with both subs on the front wall. The blue line is both subs as you can see and the other lines are each sub individually. Glad I have REW!!
Congrats David. Try crossing over at 90hz and tell me what u think. I find 100hz does give it more slam compared to 80hz with 80hz sounding the cleaner of the 2. I find 90hz gives u more slam than 80hz but keeps it clean sounding compard to 100hz.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Haiej

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,650 Posts
Success! I have to admit I will miss the brief bout of symmetry I had on the front wall But, I knew the hotspot for my 2nd sub and it paid off. Im crossed at 100 hz and it soupnds super clean and clear. Gobs of headroom and Im jamming HARD!


I TRULY cant imagine going into a new sub or room, etc without measuring equipment... If id had put those two subs on the front wall and walked away, Id have had a 30 db drop at 30 to 37 hz (hot movie zone). I wont even post the graphs because they almost made me puke. I HAD to move the subs haha.



This is the graph of the subs caddy corner in the rear left and straight in the front right. These will be their final position.:)


Details: -10 on after audyssey on both subs and I cranked it to -9, Gain matched through REW and crossed at 100 hz. Ill listen for localization and adjust to 80 if so, had to slightly tweak room delay on the sub behind in the rear corner and it closed up some of the crossover "gap"



Happy!


Edit: updated graphs with 5 dB increments, yes it’s a picture from my phone :)

Double edit: OK I just had to post this.. The middle graph is where my response would’ve been with both subs on the front wall. The blue line is both subs as you can see and the other lines are each sub individually. Glad I have REW!!

Very nice man, bet its sounding fantastic!!!! If possible can you click the Freq Axis tab and change it from Linear to Logarithmic? it makes it easier to compare


Looking forward to your first YouTube upload with the new beasts, Suck My Bass (Lo & Slo Remix) will be killer I bet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Very nice man, bet its sounding fantastic!!!! If possible can you click the Freq Axis tab and change it from Linear to Logarithmic? it makes it easier to compare


Looking forward to your first YouTube upload with the new beasts, Suck My Bass (Lo & Slo Remix) will be killer I bet!


I changed it to logarithmic I believe. Does this look correct? I never knew that button existed for that reason I was on my way out the door on the way to work so I didn’t have time to post it on the computer so I just took a snapshot on my phone. I also want to point out that these two subs are in the best location in my room and both of those subs are against the thickest walls And you can see that even being boosted by 2 dB, which it was in this picture, my very low bass is nowhere near as cooked with the house curve as some other peoples rooms. It’s just the cards I’m dealt. My room really accentuates midbass. I should also point out that my room size knob is all the way to the maximum for this, imagine if I turned it down to lowest :)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,676 Posts
Hi - I just learned something very important regarding dspeaker AM 8033 - default after calibration is with some subsonic filter enabled. Manual states this is 10 hz filter and I thought this is fine for my v1800 to protect it. Now I just found on other forum that it is in fact 14 hz - 6 db :eek: WTF !!
That means it starts higher up - so this is what is causing my V1800 to not go very deep below 20 hz. With this AM bypassed (no filter) this V1800 goes way down to 10-12 hz in my room - low in db of course but now it gets down there. Soo many movie hours wasted because of this but glad that I saw this. Maybe this is common knowledge for other AM owners but I for sure didnt know this !
I seriously need to move this sub and use REW to see what I have in my room.
Im sure the V series ship with an appropriate high pass filter in place within the amps DSP to protect the driver from over excursion below the tuning point. So it shouldnt need additional filtering in the provided signal/outboard dsp/eq.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
Im sure the V series ship with an appropriate high pass filter in place within the amps DSP to protect the driver from over excursion below the tuning point. So it shouldnt need additional filtering in the provided signal/outboard dsp/eq.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

@Thomasdk1405 I have had the V series for a couple years now and let me tell you, if they didn’t fail on me, they won’t fail on anybody :) those drivers are well protected and I pushed the hell out of those things. Just look at some of my YouTube videos And you’ll understand why you are safe To completely crank to whatever volume you want as long as you’re not playing sine waves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
45241 - 45260 of 57960 Posts
Top