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I’d like to weigh in on this whole discussion about new subs with lower port tunes. I own dual V3601’s and they pack a tremendous wallop. They are tuned, I believe to 17hz, and their actual room extension is somewhere between 7-11hz. I’ve already broken an LCD bulb using these, and despite all the soundproofing (spent 2 years building and researching) vibrations leak extensively into the kitchen above my basement theater, and even into the extremes of the upper level.
I honestly don’t want to downplay or be a buzz kill on this subject, (I am a bass lover), but no one is talking about the other side of chasing low extension, so here’s a look at some of the drawbacks:
-wife/family acceptance
-possible cracking/damage from high volume/low frequency output
-new rattles/vibrations to track down and eliminate
-hearing damage
-the paucity of these ultra low frequencies on most program material
-possible issues from neighbors complaining
-the fact that the V3601 (now V3611) already has tremendous capability in this area, and the 7201 will even go lower and louder.
After doing the home theater thing for 30 plus years, I believe I have come to the useful, practical limit of bass volume and extension with dual v3601’s (though I’m still considering a second pair and stacking them). Of course, I respect everyone’s opinion here, and I mostly tend to agree with those who post here, but I thought it might be useful to offer a different perspective.


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The first few you have listed I would say are actually things that most bassheads would deem as success. Also hearing damage is likely to occur from higher frequencies than lower ones. To each their own. Like to you to see your FR with the 7-11hz extension, that sounds awesome.


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^ i would settle for the drawing ;)
I have 15 functional jbl cs1214s....another 16 and I should be all set for Toms big boy version of the s7201. Curious how the 8kw is distributed, I guess two plate sp1-4000s or a rack mount sp2-8000?

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I’d like to weigh in on this whole discussion about new subs with lower port tunes. I own dual V3601’s and they pack a tremendous wallop. They are tuned, I believe to 17hz, and their actual room extension is somewhere between 7-11hz. I’ve already broken an LCD bulb using these, and despite all the soundproofing (spent 2 years building and researching) vibrations leak extensively into the kitchen above my basement theater, and even into the extremes of the upper level.
I honestly don’t want to downplay or be a buzz kill on this subject, (I am a bass lover), but no one is talking about the other side of chasing low extension, so here’s a look at some of the drawbacks:
-wife/family acceptance
-possible cracking/damage from high volume/low frequency output
-new rattles/vibrations to track down and eliminate
-hearing damage
-the paucity of these ultra low frequencies on most program material
-possible issues from neighbors complaining
-the fact that the V3601 (now V3611) already has tremendous capability in this area, and the 7201 will even go lower and louder.
After doing the home theater thing for 30 plus years, I believe I have come to the useful, practical limit of bass volume and extension with dual v3601’s (though I’m still considering a second pair and stacking them). Of course, I respect everyone’s opinion here, and I mostly tend to agree with those who post here, but I thought it might be useful to offer a different perspective.


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It is most def not 17 hz tuning and you’d be amazed that even my sealed 3611 destroys my v3601 down low in my room. A lower tuned vs current v3601, a KO

The v3601 is a freaking monster above 20 hz

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I’d like to weigh in on this whole discussion about new subs with lower port tunes. I own dual V3601’s and they pack a tremendous wallop. They are tuned, I believe to 17hz, and their actual room extension is somewhere between 7-11hz. I’ve already broken an LCD bulb using these, and despite all the soundproofing (spent 2 years building and researching) vibrations leak extensively into the kitchen above my basement theater, and even into the extremes of the upper level.
I honestly don’t want to downplay or be a buzz kill on this subject, (I am a bass lover), but no one is talking about the other side of chasing low extension, so here’s a look at some of the drawbacks:
-wife/family acceptance
-possible cracking/damage from high volume/low frequency output
-new rattles/vibrations to track down and eliminate
-hearing damage
-the paucity of these ultra low frequencies on most program material
-possible issues from neighbors complaining
-the fact that the V3601 (now V3611) already has tremendous capability in this area, and the 7201 will even go lower and louder.
After doing the home theater thing for 30 plus years, I believe I have come to the useful, practical limit of bass volume and extension with dual v3601’s (though I’m still considering a second pair and stacking them). Of course, I respect everyone’s opinion here, and I mostly tend to agree with those who post here, but I thought it might be useful to offer a different perspective.
You make some good points but I believe the port tune on the V36XX is around 18 or 19Hz (but I've never seen it listed). Personally I have decent extension (around 14 Hz) but if you are getting actual usable in room extension in the 7-11Hz range then that's all your room and not the sub. PSA lists the in room extension from 11-14Hz which is about what I get. But single digit extension from a sub tuned in the high teens? That's a testament to how great your room is. But what about the guys who don't get all that help from their room? Their best option is a lower tuned sub.

Regarding your other points...
WAF/FAF... In my case my wife just rolls her eyes while the rest of my family LOVES the bass.
Damage... I'm handy, I can fix what breaks.
Rattles.. They are opportunities, just challenges to be overcome.
Hearing issues... Preventable through volume control.
The lack of (paucity) ULF material... That IS a real issue, I have often said that.
Neighbors?... My nearest neighbor lives over 200 yards away, it would be awesome if they COULD hear my subs.
Sealed sub extension... Yes the S7201 goes lower. But the whole point of this is there is no ULF option for us ported sub guys.

Your points are valid (no doubt about it) and everyone's case will determine if a ULF tuned sub is right for them. However, think how awesome it would be if its a decision they actually get to make. There is one other thing. Multiple guys who currently own ULF ported subs are reporting the lower tuned ported subs seem to be producing a fuller heavier bass sound... even with material at low volumes and at higher frequencies than ULF. If one guy alone reported this I would have ignored it but multiple guys are saying the same thing. And I experienced something similar when I moved from 15" subs to 18" subs so I believe what these guys are reporting. All that to say... I'm all for this new sub idea.
 

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My son is currently playing the new Black Ops4 game in the movie room and damn does it sound great. The sound mix and bass is great. I wish some movies sounded this good.
 

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Give Darkest Minds a watch. Good bass throughout.
 

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Will you be having your subs tested by third party?
The imaginary sub you're replying about?

Or something else? Either way, I doubt Josh is going to drag anything outside again until late spring of 2019. And we don't have anything lined up with Brent. And the latter does full reviews which tend to take 4-6 months between initial arrangements and anything actually published. So it's going to be mid 2019 at the earliest---if we decide to pursue it.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
 

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I’d like to weigh in on this whole discussion about new subs with lower port tunes. I own dual V3601’s and they pack a tremendous wallop. They are tuned, I believe to 17hz, and their actual room extension is somewhere between 7-11hz. I’ve already broken an LCD bulb using these, and despite all the soundproofing (spent 2 years building and researching) vibrations leak extensively into the kitchen above my basement theater, and even into the extremes of the upper level.
I honestly don’t want to downplay or be a buzz kill on this subject, (I am a bass lover), but no one is talking about the other side of chasing low extension, so here’s a look at some of the drawbacks:
-wife/family acceptance
-possible cracking/damage from high volume/low frequency output
-new rattles/vibrations to track down and eliminate
-hearing damage
-the paucity of these ultra low frequencies on most program material
-possible issues from neighbors complaining
-the fact that the V3601 (now V3611) already has tremendous capability in this area, and the 7201 will even go lower and louder.
After doing the home theater thing for 30 plus years, I believe I have come to the useful, practical limit of bass volume and extension with dual v3601’s (though I’m still considering a second pair and stacking them). Of course, I respect everyone’s opinion here, and I mostly tend to agree with those who post here, but I thought it might be useful to offer a different perspective.


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Extension to single digits doesn't mean much without the corresponding volume for it to be useful. You would need upwards of 115db at the listening position for single digit frequency to be truly useful.



And as far things breaking, vibrating etc.. that is mostly from frequencies much higher than ULF territory.



Hearing damage also comes with high volumes at much higher frequencies than ULF. If you can't hear it it can't damage your hearing unless it creates so much pressure it ruptures your eardrums at which point you would be a many times atmospheric pressure and your house or room might explode. :D
 
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Extension to single digits doesn't mean much without the corresponding volume for it to be useful. You would need upwards of 115db at the listening position for single digit frequency to be truly useful.



And as far things breaking, vibrating etc.. that is mostly from frequencies much higher than ULF territory.



Hearing damage also comes with high volumes at much higher frequencies than ULF. If you can't hear it it can't damage your hearing unless it creates so much pressure it ruptures your eardrums at which point you would be a many times atmospheric pressure and your house or room might explode. :D
I've mentioned this in a few other posts, and have no scientific studies to back up what I'm saying, but in my (limited) experience content in the 5-12hz doesn't need to be played at 115dB+ to be felt, I would agree that to be "heard" it would probably have to be in the 115dB+ range.
I know for a fact that I can "feel" content in this range, and I'm listening considerably lower than that, there is a subtle pressure /weight in this range that adds a lot to the experience.
Just MHO
 

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I've mentioned this in a few other posts, and have no scientific studies to back up what I'm saying, but in my (limited) experience content in the 5-12hz doesn't need to be played at 115dB+ to be felt, I would agree that to be "heard" it would probably have to be in the 115dB+ range.

I know for a fact that I can "feel" content in this range, and I'm listening considerably lower than that, there is a subtle pressure /weight in this range that adds a lot to the experience.

Just MHO


There is no doubt


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I have 15 functional jbl cs1214s....another 16 and I should be all set for Toms big boy version of the s7201. Curious how the 8kw is distributed, I guess two plate sp1-4000s or a rack mount sp2-8000?

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I know, right?

I have 12x12" in 3 boxes nearfield, and struggle to see how a box with 28x12" would look. And how big it would be. Since it ended up being the 7201, i don’t see it as a simple square box :)
@Tom Vodhanel could you track down that drawing ? ;)
 

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So, I was having too much issue with my drywall rattling when I put one sub at the front of the room. The problem is my front right corner gives me a deeper in room response than anywhere else upon further investigation. I’m debating having a mason buddy of mine come over and do the bottom half of my front wall with a really pretty stone and I’m hoping that will stop the vibrations that my drywall sees. There’s no doubt that I’m going to be adding another 3611 or 3010 To the front wall at some point in time so I want the vibrations to be minimized.

Anyways, I moved the subs to the back of my room and was a little skeptical because the ported subs I had I could hear localized when they were crossed over at 80 hz. It just sounded like there was resonance or humming or something coming out of those things that I can’t really describe. Kind of like playing an old record through a pair of ported speakers, they just don’t sound completely quiet. The sealed subs are absolutely quiet crossed over at 80 hz behind me and it sounds just like the speakers in the front of the room are playing only. If I close my eyes, I have zero reason to believe that the bass is coming from anywhere else.I’m totally amazed at the difference. Not sure if it’s because sealed subs are better damped than ported but i love it.

The location that I moved the subs to, are against concrete block on both sides and there is zero vibration that I can hear in my room. Any small stuff I have isolated down with some sticky tack that I got yesterday. I can go full crank and I have zero audible vibrations down here (The kitchen and upstairs is a different story but I really need to be on it to get things moving upstairs). I guess this is the benefit of a underground concrete bunker :)

I’m not used to that and I don’t know why I didn’t do this orientation before. I think because I had a 3601 and 1801 and I felt like I needed them to be spread out due to the size difference/ocd issues.

Also, after hearing how good this new set up location sounds, I am starting to think I am by far more partial to sealed subs and may not even consider a new low tuned psa ported sub. Much snappier sound and its so obvious to me. 100 pct of music sounds better with these new subs.

Also, yesterday, I was watching mad Max fury Road which I’ve seen about 15 times and it’s incredible how much heavier the presence in the room was and how much more my couch shakes with 4 18 sealed behind me. Crazy how many more notes and how many more effects that you can hear instead of them being relatively blended together.

Anyways, these are my ramblings ;)



View attachment 2474822 but since these are the same sub, the symmetry looks awesome in the back. View attachment 2474818


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Love your graph. How do you keep your English Ivy alive? I have 2 out of direct sunlight but in a room with plenty of sunlight and they seem to have wilted to the point of no return. I even tried watering one and not the other to see if I was over or under watering them. Both wilt equally. >.
 

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I love the idea of a new ULF sub. However, there's just something not as "cool" about 2 15s when PSA already offers a sub with 4 18s in the S7201. I think the initial ULF offering would create more buzz it if was a 21" or dual 18". It was also mentioned the other day, but Made in America was a big reason I went with PSA and will continue to support them. Tom sent me a PSA shirt with my V3601. I rock that thing in the gym often.
 

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I hope the standard package or customized package idea pushes through. So I'm holding off on my purchase until this is implemented. :)

I don't need most of those added cost on the deluxe package that I already paid for in my initial purchase. $200 is $200.
 

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I hope the standard package or customized package idea pushes through. So I'm holding off on my purchase until this is implemented. :)



I don't need most of those added cost on the deluxe package that I already paid for in my initial purchase. $200 is $200.


I wouldn’t hold my breath on this. It would be a nightmare for Tom to keep track of who bought what package and how he should service them. I think he was just making a point about all the elements that are included in the pricing. I don’t see this being implemented but could be wrong.


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I've mentioned this in a few other posts, and have no scientific studies to back up what I'm saying, but in my (limited) experience content in the 5-12hz doesn't need to be played at 115dB+ to be felt, I would agree that to be "heard" it would probably have to be in the 115dB+ range.
I know for a fact that I can "feel" content in this range, and I'm listening considerably lower than that, there is a subtle pressure /weight in this range that adds a lot to the experience.
Just MHO
I agree it doesn't need to be 115db but you do need about 100db worth to get a taste. That is why enthusiasts with big displacement systems run a big house curve boosting < 20hz upwards of +15db over the rest of the frequency range. If the distortion is low you don't really hear frequencies below 20hz....at least not like frequencies above 30hz with a flat response. It's just a wave of pressure that causes random things in the house to resonate. The equal loudness curve explains this pretty well. Off the top of my head in order to actually hear infrasonic frequencies equally you need almost +10-12db more output per octave below 30hz to sound the same level. So If you are listening to something at reference level(115db), then 10hz would need to be 125-130db to "sound just as loud". Not really feasible in most rooms and wallets. It certainly does not need to be that loud to experience it, but that is the equivalence ratio it would need to be to sound flat to the ear. For most rooms I think you are better off just to have subs that are tuned deep(10-14hz) and just run a fairly flat response...so you get the added weight from the ultra low frequencies without mucking up the rest of the fundamental with room vibrations and rattles. Dedicated theaters, I say multiple 18's in a IB setup with a big house curve and go FBR!!!
 
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