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Hhhmm okay, I didn't go through my AVR at all, I have a Denon X4300h just ran Audyssey afterwards.

For clarifications sake, I took my sub out(single) to my mini dsp. Did all my level, delay and phase matching through the mini dsp into a summed output that i tweeked until i got as good of a response i could get with current placement.

I then did some EQ work through the mini dsp, had to bring my levels down quite a bit to get out a 10db bump at 20-25hz. Sent that file to the minidsp through USB.

With that setting I ran Audyssey and corrected speaker settings (no Xover under 80hz, no large speakers ecr.) And trimmed Audyssey to do no corrections above 200hz in the editor app.

What is the advantage to running room correction in the AVR first?
The best results are likely obtained by allowing Audyssey XT32 to measure and correct your bass first, then touch up with the MiniDSP afterward, if needed (should be rarely needed with good sub placement). Because:
  1. It uses spatially-averaged measurements to better represent your listening area, be it 6 inches or 6 feet wide
  2. It is going to make decisions based on your room, and by running other EQ first, you are misrepresenting the room's acoustics which could cause it to make the wrong decisions
  3. It doesn't know if you already added boost with other EQ and could eat up too much headroom, leading to reduced dynamics
  4. Audyssey uses FIR filters which are superior to the PEQ filters from the MiniDSP and even the IIR filters created with Room EQ Wizard
I would love to see a good rebuttal of this but at this point the logic seems to be in favor of letting Audyssey do the initial heavy lifting.
 

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Is this typically recommended even before taking initial REW measurements to find the best locations of the sub(s)? I was under the impression using the 'check levels' in REW was sufficient in getting a ballpark volume set for these sweeps.
The levels will change quite a bit once in the optimal locations. Find the best locations with the subs set to 0 delay and 50% gain, THEN run Audyssey (minimum points only, 1 if using the AVR and 3 points if using the app) to get the delays and levels closer to perfect.
 

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I did test tones on my subwoofers to see if I could detect any abnormalities with my TV1812s and it went down to 5hz and I didn't realize it would go that far.. the gain was set to 50 and my receiver was set to 70, the subwoofer cone had a very weird wavy motion and it was trying to play it.. I shut it off right away and I didn't hear any noises coming from the subwoofer during and I don't think after, but could I have damaged my subwoofers in doing this? I'm too paranoid about them since they were so expensive I just want to make sure I didn't mess them up..
 

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Ok - so just ran Audyssey. I'll follow the calibration guide and make those adjustments and what not. But found it odd that Audyssey set crossovers at "full range" for mains and 60 hz for center and 40 hz for rears/surrounds. And here is my first REW sweep after running Audyssey. Again - not expecting people to do my homework for me - I need to read up on all this stuff. But curious if there is anything to be gleaned from this at this point.

3047418
 

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Ok - so just ran Audyssey. I'll follow the calibration guide and make those adjustments and what not. But found it odd that Audyssey set crossovers at "full range" for mains and 60 hz for center and 40 hz for rears/surrounds. And here is my first REW sweep after running Audyssey. Again - not expecting people to do my homework for me - I need to read up on all this stuff. But curious if there is anything to be gleaned from this at this point.

View attachment 3047418
What version of Audyssey? Audyssey only reports the frequency response data, Denon/Marantz set the crossovers. It is weird that your surrounds would be set so low, but just set them to "small" and 80 Hz for all speakers and go from there.
 

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The best results are likely obtained by allowing Audyssey XT32 to measure and correct your bass first, then touch up with the MiniDSP afterward, if needed (should be rarely needed with good sub placement). Because:
  1. It uses spatially-averaged measurements to better represent your listening area, be it 6 inches or 6 feet wide
  2. It is going to make decisions based on your room, and by running other EQ first, you are misrepresenting the room's acoustics which could cause it to make the wrong decisions
  3. It doesn't know if you already added boost with other EQ and could eat up too much headroom, leading to reduced dynamics
  4. Audyssey uses FIR filters which are superior to the PEQ filters from the MiniDSP and even the IIR filters created with Room EQ Wizard
I would love to see a good rebuttal of this but at this point the logic seems to be in favor of letting Audyssey do the initial heavy lifting.
This all makes sense. However, I recall many posts (particularly in this thread) recommending that it's best to do as much as possible (find best locations, time align & EQ with MiniDSP, etc.) before running Audyssey so that Audyssey has as little to do as possible. That also made sense to me... so now I don't know what makes the most sense. :unsure:
 

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What version of Audyssey? Audyssey only reports the frequency response data, Denon/Marantz set the crossovers. It is weird that your surrounds would be set so low, but just set them to "small" and 80 Hz for all speakers and go from there.
XT32. The previous times I ran Audyssey with my ULS-15 before it died, pretty sure the AVR set all the other speakers (which are all in-wall speakers other than the center) to “small” with crossovers at 80 Hz or so. So yeah, was surprised to see those settings this time.

In any event, I put all the crossovers at 80 Hz. Now I guess I need to play around with placement.
 

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I did test tones on my subwoofers to see if I could detect any abnormalities with my TV1812s and it went down to 5hz and I didn't realize it would go that far.. the gain was set to 50 and my receiver was set to 70, the subwoofer cone had a very weird wavy motion and it was trying to play it.. I shut it off right away and I didn't hear any noises coming from the subwoofer during and I don't think after, but could I have damaged my subwoofers in doing this? I'm too paranoid about them since they were so expensive I just want to make sure I didn't mess them up..
Test tones are sine waves and if you use them you don't want to run a single test tone very long. If you do you can damage the subwoofer. Did you get any weird smells coming from your sub or any weird sounds? As long as you didn't play any test tones very long you should be okay. The PSA subs are protested by the DSP programming but if you get careless you can still cook them. So beware when running sine waves... especially at louder volumes.
 
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This all makes sense. However, I recall many posts (particularly in this thread) recommending that it's best to do as much as possible (find best locations, time align & EQ with MiniDSP, etc.) before running Audyssey so that Audyssey has as little to do as possible. That also made sense to me... so now I don't know what makes the most sense. :unsure:
I have definitely seen folks here with Audyssey issues that achieved the best final result doing everything pre-Audy.
Tim
 

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Test tones are sine waves and if you use them you don't want to run a single test tone very long. If you do you can damage the subwoofer. Did you get any weird smells coming from your sub or any weird sounds? As long as you didn't play any test tones very long you should be okay. The PSA subs are protested by the DSP programming but if you get careless you can still cook them. So beware when running sine waves... especially at louder volumes.
I agree and would add not to push any sine waves at a ported sub WELL below tuning. 5hz sine wave is too low for a 12.5 hz tuned sub. I'm glad it's still fine.
Tim
 

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Appreciate the vote of confidence dockside..:) Bolting the 464 to the 7055, to quote captain Ron "any fool can do that" The interesting part is executing the XO in that co-ax. Then, perhaps even more interesting(to me anyway), is what to do, exactly, <400hz. The horn is just so ridiculously large. I mean, it NEEDS to be to do what it does. But still...I feel like this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1xMzpiUpfo&t=0m9s

But it isn't like I haven't spent a good bit of time with plenty of more "realistic" horn options. Along with tweeters, a half a dozen options for new 10" woofers, different 12-15". (see attached).

I think it was Vince Lambardi who said something like ~ winning isn't everything but wanting to win is

Tom V.
Team Power.
Hmm, massive horn with a coax bolted to it, from a company known for pro subwoofers.... Something like the JTR Noesis line? That's right where my head went. I love everything I've read from those speakers. A similar offering from PSA seems awfully interesting lol.
 
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This all makes sense. However, I recall many posts (particularly in this thread) recommending that it's best to do as much as possible (find best locations, time align & EQ with MiniDSP, etc.) before running Audyssey so that Audyssey has as little to do as possible. That also made sense to me... so now I don't know what makes the most sense. :unsure:
There is more than one way to dial in your subs so that's why you've read varying methods. regardless of which way you do it, the first step is always find the best placement for each sub. By doing this you cut down on the amount of EQ-ing that has to be done later. The more EQ you end up doing the more headroom you eat up in your system. Finding the best placement is done best with REW.

Once you've located your best placement options you can decide how deeply you want to dig into dialing in your subs. For those without a minidsp the quickest and easiest way is to run the AVR calibration software. Then (if you have REW) run a sweep and see how it looks. If you're lucky you'll have a great response but usually there will be issues that may need to be cleaned up so you may need to try moving a sub around a little or moving your seating forward or back a bit.

If you have a minidsp and REW then there are a couple of different ways to dial things in. There is the method that Soulburner suggests where you run the AVR software first letting it do the majority of corrections and then you clean it up with a minidsp.

The other method is to use REW and the minidsp together first to EQ and then, if you want, run the AVR calibration software. If you're using Audyssey you can download the app and tell it not to touch anything below 300Hz or so. That way you dial in your subs and let Audyssey dial in the speakers. This method is vital if you're running Crowsons or a BOSS setup out of your minidsp because you do not want to use a signal EQ'd for subwoofers to run a TR setup.

So, as you can see, there are many methods for dialing in your subs and it all boils down to how good of a response you find acceptable, how much work you want to do to get there, and how deep you want to plunge into learning subwoofer optimization. But rest assured, the more work you put into it the better the results will be.

The real question you have to answer is: "How good is good enough for you to be happy?"
 

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Is this typically recommended even before taking initial REW measurements to find the best locations of the sub(s)? I was under the impression using the 'check levels' in REW was sufficient in getting a ballpark volume set for these sweeps.
You are corrrect. I think I misunderstood what the other poster was trying to do. It sounded like they had their sub gain way too low based on having to apply a bunch of boost in the AVR sub trim and tone controls to get output. Thats why I was recommending running the room correction to get the sub gain set closer to right. For picking a location REW is the tool of choice for sure.
 

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Hhhmm okay, I didn't go through my AVR at all, I have a Denon X4300h just ran Audyssey afterwards.

For clarifications sake, I took my sub out(single) to my mini dsp. Did all my level, delay and phase matching through the mini dsp into a summed output that i tweeked until i got as good of a response i could get with current placement.

I then did some EQ work through the mini dsp, had to bring my levels down quite a bit to get out a 10db bump at 20-25hz. Sent that file to the minidsp through USB.

With that setting I ran Audyssey and corrected speaker settings (no Xover under 80hz, no large speakers ecr.) And trimmed Audyssey to do no corrections above 200hz in the editor app.

What is the advantage to running room correction in the AVR first?

It sounded like your sub gain was way low based on your previous comment about having to add a bunch of boost after the fact to get output. I may have misunderstood you however and if so Im probably not making sense. Didn't you say you had to add a bunch of boost to the sub using the tone control and sub trim?
 
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Hi
Is there any cea 2010 messures on the PSA S3012 or the older modells..?

Im considering 2 subbs the PSA S3012 or Arendal Subwoofer 2V i now the Arendal is ported but it's thos 2 its stands betwin. I only watch movie's in My 1500 cubic feet concreat room.

I have hade 2 svs pb4000 that i now have sold becouse i whant som more chest slam. Ok they digged dip but i whant something that hitts harder

And im looking to buy 2 again.

Hope you guys have some input and can help me out ..🙂
 

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It sounded like your sub gain was way low based on your previous comment about having to add a bunch of boost after the fact to get output. I may have misunderstood you however and if so Im probably not making sense. Didn't you say you had to add a bunch of boost to the sub using the tone control and sub trim?
Yeah, I'm at +10db in Sub trim in the AVR to get levels at what i prefer. The tone control for music is just personal preference, i almost always pLay with the bass knob for rock music (gotta love those kick drums).

Based on what everyone is saying i think i made a mistake during the gain matching process in REW because everything else i did seems to check out okay. Not sure why REW didn't want me to have my db at 75 and told me to turn it down though. Anything above 65db wasn't measuring, I would get an error message, so I did everything at about 65db, then of course because I can't boost nulls using the minidsp I had to turn it down further to get rid of my 20hz peak.

Just trying to figure out how everyone else is able to take measurments at or near reference without getting an error message or mic clipping.
 

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Hi
Is there any cea 2010 messures on the PSA S3012 or the older modells..?

Im considering 2 subbs the PSA S3012 or Arendal Subwoofer 2V i now the Arendal is ported but it's thos 2 its stands betwin. I only watch movie's in My 1500 cubic feet concreat room.

I have hade 2 svs pb4000 that i now have sold becouse i whant som more chest slam. Ok they digged dip but i whant something that hitts harder

And im looking to buy 2 again.

Hope you guys have sominput and can help me out ..🙂
Hi
Is there any cea 2010 messures on the PSA S3012 or the older modells..?

Im considering 2 subbs the PSA S3012 or Arendal Subwoofer 2V i now the Arendal is ported but it's thos 2 its stands betwin. I only watch movie's in My 1500 cubic feet concreat room.

I have hade 2 svs pb4000 that i now have sold becouse i whant som more chest slam. Ok they digged dip but i whant something that hitts harder

And im looking to buy 2 again.

Hope you guys have some input and can help me out ..🙂
data-bass.com has output data on 3 older models. Those are the XS-15SE, the XV-15, and the XV-30FSE.

When you bring up data-bass.com click on Systems on the top to the left. Scroll down till you see Power Sound Audio.
 
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data-bass.com has output data on 3 older models. Those are the XS-15SE, the XV-15, and the XV-30FSE.

When you bring up data-bass.com click on Systems on the top to the left. Scroll down till you see Power Sound Audio.

Thansk..🙂👍
 

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This all makes sense. However, I recall many posts (particularly in this thread) recommending that it's best to do as much as possible (find best locations, time align & EQ with MiniDSP, etc.) before running Audyssey so that Audyssey has as little to do as possible. That also made sense to me... so now I don't know what makes the most sense. :unsure:
Find the best physical placement first using Room EQ Wizard, then run Audyssey, then do the sub distance tweak, then adjust frequency response further with a MiniDSP, if necessary. Time alignment of the 2 subs is not necessary with Audyssey XT32 (that is part of its process).

Now, an exception is if you have one of the few setups we've seen around here that this doesn't seem to work for. There could be combinations of gear and rooms that end up with funky results. Or, you have more than 2 subs or other setup like Hop mentions. But generally speaking if you give Audyssey good placement it gives great results.
 

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Yeah, I'm at +10db in Sub trim in the AVR to get levels at what i prefer. The tone control for music is just personal preference, i almost always pLay with the bass knob for rock music (gotta love those kick drums).

Based on what everyone is saying i think i made a mistake during the gain matching process in REW because everything else i did seems to check out okay. Not sure why REW didn't want me to have my db at 75 and told me to turn it down though. Anything above 65db wasn't measuring, I would get an error message, so I did everything at about 65db, then of course because I can't boost nulls using the minidsp I had to turn it down further to get rid of my 20hz peak.

Just trying to figure out how everyone else is able to take measurments at or near reference without getting an error message or mic clipping.

Ok, Im not loosing my mind! +10dB is pretty crazy. Better crank the sub gain up some to get that down. Where is the sub gain? 50%?
 
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