AVS Forum banner

29201 - 29220 of 46170 Posts

·
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
The sub shipped today and is scheduled for delivery on Thursday. I have been doing a lot of reading and I am looking forward to testing all of the controls and taking measurements.

Same here on all accounts. Mine should also arrive Thursday. I've read the integration of multiple subs through 2x4 HD Guide twice already. Going to give it another read through today. I'm debating if I should run them in one or two port mode. My initial thought is to try one first and after setup try the EOT scene and World War Z grenade scene to see the difference vs just the one (which were not good at all before). If I still wind up with major port noise and chuffing I'll open them both up to 2 port.

I think this is a good idea and should yield good results. You'll get more boundary gain in that position. You can always move it back without much effort.

I'll try this position first then. Thanks for the idea.

I'd like to try newer marantz 7011. The 7010 was not very good. Denon models were better but Yamaha and onkyo still sound better.

My understanding was that the 7011 was basically the same as the 7010 + HEos but without some other things. From @jdsmoothie on this thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2616745-marantz-7010-seems-have-more-than-7011-a.html#post47589697 specifically:

1. The SR7010 can use the Audyssey Pro Kit ($700USD) while the SR7011 will be able to use the new Audyssey app ($20USD) when released with similar Audyssey EQ curve editing functionality.
2. Audyssey DSX simulates audio to Front Wide speakers which is no longer supported on any 2016 major brand AVR to include the SR7011.
3. Both models are DLNA capable (in fact most AVR models for the past few years are Wifi capable).
4. Both models can use the newer 2016 Marantz Remote app.
5. Front Wide speakers dropped on the SR7011 so no longer need 13 pre-outs, rather only 11.

HEOS provides powered Wifi/Bluetooth audio to other rooms either via the HEOS app or via the HEOS module built-in to the SR7011. Current HEOS promotion features a FREE HEOS 1 HS2 (MSRP $199) or $200 credit towards a larger HEOS 3/5/7.

If you have no need for either HEOS or the Audyssey app, the SR7010 would be the more cost effective purchase as it's on clearance.

https://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7010-Surround-Receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B014MWT9YY
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Newbie question, and I apologize if this has already been discussed, debated and answered before. I would like to invest in a pair of Rythmik L22 subwoofers. However, my placement options are extremely limited. Probably the least obtrusive arrangement would be to use the subwoofers as stands for my two front channel speakers. I would insulate the speakers from the subwoofers with anti-vibration pads. I am not too concerned about trying to find an optimal sonic placement for the subs in my room, because I plan to use a device like the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II-B to balance their frequency response. My front channel speakers are actively-powered Paradigm Reference Active 40s, so they contain amplifiers as well as drivers [see photo below]. Would I just be asking for trouble if I stacked my speakers on top of the subwoofers? I also realize that for the same price of the paired L22 subs I could buy a single F25 that would give me much deeper bass than the smaller subs. I'm not sure I could even squeeze an F25 into my little room (though I'm already certain I would need to hire someone to move it into place for me, because there is no way I could manage its bulk and mass by myself). However, a single F25 would allow me to AVOID stacking my front loudspeakers on top of dual subs (provided I could actually find a spot for the F25 where it wouldn't be a stumbling block). Thoughts? Thanks for your advice.
 

·
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Newbie question, and I apologize if this has already been discussed, debated and answered before. I would like to invest in a pair of Rythmik L22 subwoofers. However, my placement options are extremely limited. Probably the least obtrusive arrangement would be to use the subwoofers as stands for my two front channel speakers. I would insulate the speakers from the subwoofers with anti-vibration pads. My front channel speakers are actively-powered Paradigm Reference Active 40s, so they contain amplifiers as well as drivers [see photo below]. Would I just be asking for trouble if I stacked my speakers on top of the subwoofers? Thanks for your advice.



I'm not an expert on this so I'm not sure exactly what the pros and cons to it are, but I can tell you that I've seen others do this before and the act of putting the fronts on top of subs doesn't usually seem to be an issue. In this thread some people even said it could help with overall sound. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1467048-placing-left-right-speakers-top-subwoofers.html

Only caution is that it's usually good if you have flexibility to move subs around to find positions with optimum frequency response, but given that you're looking at duals, you'll probably have less of an issue with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
The act of putting the fronts on top of subs doesn't usually seem to be an issue. In this thread some people even said it could help with overall sound. http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1467048-placing-left-right-speakers-top-subwoofers.html
Only caution is that it's usually good if you have flexibility to move subs around to find positions with optimum frequency response, but given that you're looking at duals, you'll probably have less of an issue with that.
Thanks for the link to that thread. I look forward to reading those responses to my question. I am not too concerned about how the subs might sound in different positions around the room, because I plan to use a device like the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II-B to balance their low-frequency response. https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/outlet-center/products/anti-mode-8033s-ii-b However, I am wondering if it is actually wise to subject the amplifiers inside my front speakers to the constant vibration they would receive when placed on top of a subwoofer.
 

·
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Thanks for the link to that thread. I look forward to reading those responses to my question. I am not too concerned about the way the subs might sound in different positions around the room, because I plan to use a device like the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II-B to balance their low-frequency response. https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/outlet-center/products/anti-mode-8033s-ii-b However, I am wondering if it is actually wise to subject the amplifiers inside my front speakers to the constant vibration they would receive when placed on top of a subwoofer.


Good point. Yours is a bit of a unique situation because those amps are in there. Sorry I can't help more. I'm sure someone here will be able to help though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,019 Posts
Newbie question, and I apologize if this has already been discussed, debated and answered before. I would like to invest in a pair of Rythmik L22 subwoofers. However, my placement options are extremely limited. Probably the least obtrusive arrangement would be to use the subwoofers as stands
The sub cabinet shouldnt vibrate but the air around it will. Putting the speakers on top of the sub shouldnt be any worse than putting them right next to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
566 Posts
Pictures placed on my PB16 falls down. But for sure that little vibration won't harm ur speakers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,757 Posts
The pros and cons of placing speakers on top of subs (or other speakers) have been discussed many times before. Basically if the cabinets vibrate you can increase distortion but in practice you may hear nothing and of course if the cabinets are solid and you use dampening pads you'll probably be fine. Your Paradigms are rated to 36 Hz as it is and I would expect the amplifiers to be decently isolated and designed to handle vibration.

I would choose two subs over one. You can use them in stereo and if you ever find space you can even out the in-room response by appropriate placement.

Note Anti-Mode, or any correction scheme, is not a complete panacea. In general nulls caused by room modes/boundary reflections cannot be fully compensated and most programs won't try. Boosting the level to (try to) solve a null at the MLP causes excessive bass everywhere else and potential clipping of the amp and/or driver. A room layout with dimensions would help. Don't put the MLP in the exact center of the room as there is always a null there.

FWIWFM - Don
 
  • Like
Reactions: hhowards

·
Writer & Reviewer
Joined
·
8,766 Posts
I am not too concerned about how the subs might sound in different positions around the room, because I plan to use a device like the ANTI-MODE 8033S-II-B to balance their low-frequency response.
The Anti-mode can only smooth over peaks, it can't fill in nulls associated to room modes, so placement is still key to good sound regardless of the EQ system you use.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
Same here on all accounts. Mine should also arrive Thursday. I've read the integration of multiple subs through 2x4 HD Guide twice already. Going to give it another read through today. I'm debating if I should run them in one or two port mode. My initial thought is to try one first and after setup try the EOT scene and World War Z grenade scene to see the difference vs just the one (which were not good at all before). If I still wind up with major port noise and chuffing I'll open them both up to 2 port.




I'll try this position first then. Thanks for the idea.




My understanding was that the 7011 was basically the same as the 7010 + HEos but without some other things. From @jdsmoothie on this thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2616745-marantz-7010-seems-have-more-than-7011-a.html#post47589697 specifically:
After playing around with Dirac for the last 4 weeks, I'm convinced that Dirac is hands down a much better room correction system than Audyssey. Now it's just a matter of finances to place the order for a brand new XMC-1. I'm done with Audyssey receivers...
 

·
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
After playing around with Dirac for the last 4 weeks, I'm convinced that Dirac is hands down a much better room correction system than Audyssey. Now it's just a matter of finances to place the order for a brand new XMC-1. I'm done with Audyssey receivers...
You're referring to full system Dirac Live right? So it would either have to be built into an AVR, or you'd have to have separates and have it built into the pre/pro or use a box between the pre/pro and amp. In my case, since I am using an AVR with no Dirac built in, the only Dirac Live I could use would be for the dual FV15HPs by making the 2x4 HD a DDRC-24. But for another $245, im not sure its worth it more than just doing the EQ manually using timing, gain matching, and PEQ. What are your thoughts there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,439 Posts
^^^ If you are a perfectionist then there are much better EQ platforms out there than Audyssey. With that said, I by no means fall in this category, but I think Audyssey does a descent job for the average enthusiast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
What is difference in sound between the Denon and Marantz AVRs?
The Denon X4x00 is equivalent to a Marantz 701x. However, instead of op-amps the Marantz pre-amp stage utilizes discrete circuitry they call HDAMs. I have not directly compared, but the Marantz implementation is said be warmer while retaining detail.

There is no Marantz equivalent AVR to the Denon X6x00 and X7x00 flagships. The closest equivalents are the AV770x and AV880x pre-amps, respectively.
Thanks, I want something that pairs well with my SVS prime bookshelves and center. They have a slightly forward or bright sound, though more neutral than overly bright.

I've read that Denon is a warmer/fuller/more laid back sound than Yamaha (which is more neutral but can be slightly harsh/sibilant with speakers like mine).

Given my budget I would be looking at the Denon X3x00/X4x00 and Marantz equivalents with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT. Are you saying that those models would be warmer with the Marantz equivalents?

I also have to consider whether the 2016 models will support dolby vision and hybrid log gamma or whether only the upcoming 2017 models will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,925 Posts
Think this discussion is better suited to the Receiver thread. There is a lot of info on those threads. The 2016 denon X4300 and 6300 will be getting the Dolby vision update in late 2017/early 2018


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
After playing around with Dirac for the last 4 weeks, I'm convinced that Dirac is hands down a much better room correction system than Audyssey. Now it's just a matter of finances to place the order for a brand new XMC-1. I'm done with Audyssey receivers...
You're referring to full system Dirac Live right? So it would either have to be built into an AVR, or you'd have to have separates and have it built into the pre/pro or use a box between the pre/pro and amp. In my case, since I am using an AVR with no Dirac built in, the only Dirac Live I could use would be for the dual FV15HPs by making the 2x4 HD a DDRC-24. But for another $245, im not sure its worth it more than just doing the EQ manually using timing, gain matching, and PEQ. What are your thoughts there?
For sub PEQ, I don't think the added cost of Dirac Live is worth it. For the full setup including all speakers it probably is but it depends on how much you are willing to spend and how simple or complex of a setup you want.

I personally want just a AVR that I can get on sale under $1K. Not twice that plus MiniDSP Dirac Live processor plus power amp.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
You're referring to full system Dirac Live right? So it would either have to be built into an AVR, or you'd have to have separates and have it built into the pre/pro or use a box between the pre/pro and amp. In my case, since I am using an AVR with no Dirac built in, the only Dirac Live I could use would be for the dual FV15HPs by making the 2x4 HD a DDRC-24. But for another $245, im not sure its worth it more than just doing the EQ manually using timing, gain matching, and PEQ. What are your thoughts there?
I'm talking Dirac Live full either MiniDSP DDRC-88 or Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro. For the subwoofers you can still use your miniDSP 2x4 HD, though.
 

·
Bass and Hi-Fi Enthusiast
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
For sub PEQ, I don't think the added cost of Dirac Live is worth it. For the full setup including all speakers it probably is but it depends on how much you are willing to spend and how simple or complex of a setup you want.

I personally want just a AVR that I can get on sale under $1K. Not twice that plus MiniDSP Dirac Live processor plus power amp.
I agree with you. I trust that Dirac Live probably is better than Audyssey, but I also don't think I am willing to go down that road yet, seeing as I'm still in the living room. As part of my dedicated theater space finishing project, maybe a couple years from now, I will likely consider separates using an Emotiva XMC-1. For my living room theater, I'm thinking if I can find a $750-$1,000 prior years model of either Denon or Marantz 9.2 ch with Atmos/DTS:X and HDR capable - I'll stick with that.

I'm talking Dirac Live full either MiniDSP DDRC-88 or Emotiva XMC-1 pre/pro. For the subwoofers you can still use your miniDSP 2x4 HD, though.
Yeah, I am going to just stick with the 2x4 HD and steps from @AustinJerry 's guide. Seriously chomping at the bit over here for the FV15HP to arrive :D:D:D:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
Think this discussion is better suited to the Receiver thread. There is a lot of info on those threads. The 2016 denon X4300 and 6300 will be getting the Dolby vision update in late 2017/early 2018


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
will do that, thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,486 Posts
After playing around with Dirac for the last 4 weeks, I'm convinced that Dirac is hands down a much better room correction system than Audyssey. Now it's just a matter of finances to place the order for a brand new XMC-1. I'm done with Audyssey receivers...
Yep.

For anyone considering Dirac Live, there is a free demo, as long as you have a calibrated mic and boom mic stand.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store

For anyone considering Audyssey, I'd recommend the latest iteration with the target curve editor. That's at least half of what is great about Dirac. The other half is the impulse response stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,374 Posts
After playing around with Dirac for the last 4 weeks, I'm convinced that Dirac is hands down a much better room correction system than Audyssey. Now it's just a matter of finances to place the order for a brand new XMC-1. I'm done with Audyssey receivers...
Yep.

For anyone considering Dirac Live, there is a free demo, as long as you have a calibrated mic and boom mic stand.
http://www.dirac.com/online-store

For anyone considering Audyssey, I'd recommend the latest iteration with the target curve editor. That's at least half of what is great about Dirac. The other half is the impulse response stuff.
I thought Audyssey does FIR taps (10,000 or more)... isn't that impulse response stuff? Or do you mean something else?

Also, with regards to sub EQ is it correct that Dirac Live does minimum phase (peq) while Audyssey uses FIR taps for everything?
 
29201 - 29220 of 46170 Posts
Top