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I'm using four Paradigm Reference Active 40 loudspeakers in a Front Left / Front Right / Back Left / Back Right configuration, and they all have a frequency response specification of ±1dB 36Hz-20kHz. (Yes, I admit that my current 4.0 audio setup is really primitive compared to the latest 7.2.4 Atmos systems, but in the 14' x 17' studio cottage where I make my home, it is all but impossible to add more channels anywhere else in the room.) I use my audio system for both Classical Music and Movies. If I added a stereo pair of Rythmik subwoofers to my setup, would you recommend a 120Hz crossover? At approximately what bass frequency does the ear stop detecting directionality, and stereo sound-imaging can no longer be heard from a pair of subs?
What are you using as a processor?

I recommend running the dual subs mono w/80Hz crossover for movies. You will have to experiment what you like best for music. With most 2ch music I listen full range without subs. This may change with Rythmik or Searon subs in my system.
 

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What are you using as a processor?

I recommend running the dual subs mono w/80Hz crossover for movies. You will have to experiment what you like best for music. With most 2ch music I listen full range without subs. This may change with Rythmik or Searon subs in my system.
Thanks for your advice. I am using an Integra DTC-9.8 Preamplifier/Processor. It's a discontinued model that would no longer be considered state-of-the-art, but it is a 7.1 channel preamp that's working decently for my purposes. Even though this Integra processor has mono subwoofer pre-outs only, I believe that I should be able to operate dual Rythmik subwoofers as a stereo pair by using the extra Left & Right Channel RCA outputs. In case you are interested, a pdf download of the Integra DTC-9.8 Instruction Manual is available at this link:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiD8oKq7_jTAhXhjVQKHXZSAzoQFggmMAA&url=http://redirect.onkyousa.com/redirect_service.php?type=own_manuals&file=DTC-9.8_En_A.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEg6bYVbdVJQsO9Nw3DGBJWrpNR4A&sig2=NIc7rZ21AO6Ie9p2onAgZQ
The front and rear panels of the Integra Pre/Pro are shown in the photos below.

 

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I believe that I should be able to operate dual Rythmik subwoofers as a stereo pair by using the extra Left & Right Channel RCA outputs.
Yes, that could work. However, I would just utilize a Y-spitter or use XLR/RCA for your main amp and the other RCA/XLR for the subs. The F12Gs are what I would recommend for stereo operation. You will have to configure bass management in the processor and on the subs.

http://rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html
https://www.svsound.com/products/gold-rca-y-adapter
 

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For reasons I can't explain, my new subs seem to add clarity to dialog and better directional definition to surround effects. This could be the placebo effect at work, of course, but it doesn't seem so to me.
It's not the placebo effect, and it's actually not the subs themselves. It's that you're relieving the other speakers of the burden of reaching down below your xover point. The big drivers in your non-subs aren't having to work nearly so hard, and therefore aren't distorting as much, and have resources free to produce better transients. By transferring the heavy lifting to the sub(s), you've cleaned up the sound coming from the other speakers.

This is why, even when (in my case) Audyssey sets my xover point to 40Hz, I manually reset it to 80Hz. It doesn't seem like much, but it audibly cleans up the entire system.

EDIT: I've tried other xover points, from 60 Hz to 120 Hz, but 80 Hz system wide worked best for me. Trust your ears.
 

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^^^ My crossover is set to 100hz, but I've had it up to 110 with no localization coming from the subs, but neither are placed nearfield.
 

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People get too hung up on 80hz as being the golden crossover point. At least that's my opinion. :)
 

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80hz xover is THX standard. Use whatever sounds best to you is my advise. All of my 7 speakers are currently crossed at 110hz with LFE set to be also at 110hz LPF.
 

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It's not the placebo effect, and it's actually not the subs themselves. It's that you're relieving the other speakers of the burden of reaching down below your xover point.
Not sure I follow you here. The speakers output is being rolled off by the crossover point, so anything below losses power fast. How would adding more subs diminish the burden in a part of the frequency range where the speakers aren't doing much anyway? Unless the crossover point is well below what the speakers can actually handle I'm not sure there's any inherent benefit to lightening the load in an area where the load is already light.
 
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It's not the placebo effect, and it's actually not the subs themselves. It's that you're relieving the other speakers of the burden of reaching down below your xover point. The big drivers in your non-subs aren't having to work nearly so hard, and therefore aren't distorting as much, and have resources free to produce better transients. By transferring the heavy lifting to the sub(s), you've cleaned up the sound coming from the other speakers.

This is why, even when (in my case) Audyssey sets my xover point to 40Hz, I manually reset it to 80Hz. It doesn't seem like much, but it audibly cleans up the entire system.
Even when I had just one sub, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I was using 80Hz as my crossover frequency. This leads me to suspect that, although my non subwoofer speakers are doing the same job as before, the improvement I am hearing may be the result of my new subs being better able to produce lower frequencies with lower distortion than my old Hsu could handle.
 
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It's simply because your dual subs are not needing to work as hard to produce your desired output levels. That is what makes the system sound better overall. One mediocre sub struggling to produce what you ask of it will never sound nearly as good as two much more capable subs that effortlessly reproduce what you feed them.
 

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Thanks for your advice. I am using an Integra DTC-9.8 Preamplifier/Processor. It's a discontinued model that is no longer state-of-the-art, but it is a 7.1 channel preamp that's working decently for my purposes. Even though this Integra processor has mono subwoofer pre-outs only, I believe that I should be able to operate dual Rythmik subwoofers as a stereo pair by using the extra Left & Right Channel RCA outputs.
For your speakers I would go with the 80 Hz crossover and see how it works using the sub output. As they are rated an octave below that you should be OK. If you run stereo and the subs are symmetric with respect to mains, room, and listening position, the Integra should handle them just fine. If not, or you decide to position them at opposite corners or whatever, then you'll have to adjust (add to) the delay on the closer sub using the phase knob on the sub to get it time-aligned with the other sub before running Audyssey. It is easier to do than describe and has been described numerous times in this thread (search, or call/email Enrico or Brian and they'll help walk you through it).

The main problem with just splitting off the L/R outputs is that you won't be rolling off the low frequencies to the mains, giving up one of the main benefits of having a sub. If your speakers have a crossover or high-pass filter built-in then you can do it there, of course.

I ran stereo subs for many years, then bounced back and forth and am now mono. Just can't really tell any difference, especially with so few mixes even using stereo effects that low in frequency (most music CDs mix the bass to mono anyway), and using them stereo limits placement (so you can't place them for best in-room FR) and potentially makes them harder to set up.

I went with the F12 for various reasons but doubt you'd hear significant (if any) difference between that and the F12G version. I don't think you need th higher frequency range of the F12G. Whatever you choose, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what adding a sub can do for the music.

IME/IMO/FWIWFM/YMMV/my 0.000001 cents (microcent)/etc. - Don
 
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So I have them both on carpet. Well the original one is half on and half off carpet. Original one had all feet on.

New one will be same. Front on carpet, back not. Should they both have feet or no?
I would leave all of the feet on.

I'm still waiting on UPS freight to deliver the FV18 (pacing actually). I'm afraid to take a nap and miss the delivery. I'm thinking about setting up a tent in the yard so I can nap.
 

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when I blended subs it took me alot of time and positions
 

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I would leave all of the feet on.

I'm still waiting on UPS freight to deliver the FV18 (pacing actually). I'm afraid to take a nap and miss the delivery. I'm thinking about setting up a tent in the yard so I can nap.
Marc,

USP freight does not deliver without calling you first to schedule a delivery date and time. The scheduled delivery date you see on tracking is the date for the package to reach your local freight center. UPS will call you the day after the package arrive to final destination to schedule delivery date.
 

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Even when I had just one sub, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I was using 80Hz as my crossover frequency. This leads me to suspect that, although my non subwoofer speakers are doing the same job as before, the improvement I am hearing may be the result of my new subs being better able to produce lower frequencies with lower distortion than my old Hsu could handle.
If you didnt push your Hsu sub over its limit, It could be the servo difference.
 

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Even when I had just one sub, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I was using 80Hz as my crossover frequency. This leads me to suspect that, although my non subwoofer speakers are doing the same job as before, the improvement I am hearing may be the result of my new subs being better able to produce lower frequencies with lower distortion than my old Hsu could handle.
If you didnt push your Hsu sub over its limit, It could be the servo difference.
Probably; I never pushed my Dayton SUB-1200 hard but with the LV12R, I immediately heard a big difference in both power/depth and refinement.

Aside from that, the biggest differences should be from placement, EQ, and duals.
 
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