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Even when I had just one sub, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I was using 80Hz as my crossover frequency. This leads me to suspect that, although my non subwoofer speakers are doing the same job as before, the improvement I am hearing may be the result of my new subs being better able to produce lower frequencies with lower distortion than my old Hsu could handle.
Remember that a crossover is a sloping filter. Most AVRs utilize only a 2nd-order filter (-12dB/octave). This means that the sub and mains have to blend at and around this point. Most people have never heard of let alone performed the SDT (Sub-Distance Tweak) to align sub(s) w/mains at the crossover frequency. Phase issues between the subs and mains could affect the sound.
@gwsat, have you performed the SDT since getting the FV18s? Did you ever on the HSU? I think others are also correct that your FV18s are loafing compared to the HSU.

Also, while I can't find the chart I believe the FV18 and FV25 start naturally rolling off at 80Hz which I've found to be a positive thing in regards to clean sound.

Some AVRs have an additional 2nd-order LPF for LFE which defaults to 120Hz. Matching the speaker crossover point cascades the filters resulting in a 4th-order filter and results in a cleaner sound IME. This was recently discussed in a thread titled 80Hz LPF for LFE I believe. Using the line-in on a Rythmik sub [by design] achieves the same thing as the 4th-order filter is preferred by most music listeners. 4th order low-pass on sub, 2nd-order high pass on mains.

Oh… also placebo effect @gwsat
 

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Marc,

USP freight does not deliver without calling you first to schedule a delivery date and time. The scheduled delivery date you see on tracking is the date for the package to reach your local freight center. UPS will call you the day after the package arrive to final destination to schedule delivery date.
I am so dissapointed! NAPTIME 😴

Edit, I am so glad you said something. I see that it hit the local service center yesterday. I called and the rep sees that no one called me and it should have been delivered today. He says he thinks we will be able to get it delivered tomorrow (they still have to call me back). If not I will not be happy!
 

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@tvuong

Refresh my memory! When gain matching, if one sub post Audyssey calibration is at a higher or lower level than the other what do you do?
 

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For your speakers I would go with the 80 Hz crossover and see how it works using the sub output. As they are rated an octave below that you should be OK. If you run stereo and the subs are symmetric with respect to mains, room, and listening position, the Integra should handle them just fine. If not, or you decide to position them at opposite corners or whatever, then you'll have to adjust (add to) the delay on the closer sub using the phase knob on the sub to get it time-aligned with the other sub before running Audyssey. It is easier to do than describe and has been described numerous times in this thread (search, or call/email Enrico or Brian and they'll help walk you through it).
The main problem with just splitting off the L/R outputs is that you won't be rolling off the low frequencies to the mains, giving up one of the main benefits of having a sub. If your speakers have a crossover or high-pass filter built-in then you can do it there, of course.
Yes, I was thinking that it might be a bit more complicated to set up dual subwoofers in stereo mode with my processor, rather than just using the dedicated mono subwoofer pre-out. I have never owned any subwoofers before, so all of this is unexplored territory for me. Enrico and Brian at Rythmik will probably be fielding a lot of my questions after I make a purchase.
I ran stereo subs for many years, then bounced back and forth and am now mono. Just can't really tell any difference, especially with so few mixes even using stereo effects that low in frequency (most music CDs mix the bass to mono anyway), and using them stereo limits placement (so you can't place them for best in-room FR) and potentially makes them harder to set up.
I don't have expert knowledge about CD recording technology, but I'm guessing that for Classical / Pipe Organ recordings, the stereo bass might be preserved in the mix (though my hunch could easily be wrong). Having said that, however, I am beginning to come to the same conclusion that you have reached from direct experience: I doubt I would be able to tell the difference between stereo and mono in the subwoofers' deep bass. The first arrangement I would like to try with two subs is placing them in essentially the same positions that my Front loudspeakers occupy, so a stereo sub setup would indeed be possible (but I just might run them mono, anyway, for the sake of simplicity). If the subs don't sound great in those spots, I do have a few other placement options available to me. (I ought to draw a floor plan so folks here can visualize my room layout. My four loudspeakers are arranged symmetrically in relation to each other, but they aren't symmetrically positioned in relation to the room itself, because I live in an open studio where my kitchen occupies one-third of the room on the left side, and my "Home Theater" occupies the other two-thirds of the room on the right side.)
I went with the F12 for various reasons but doubt you'd hear significant (if any) difference between that and the F12G version. I don't think you need the higher frequency range of the F12G. Whatever you choose, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what adding a sub can do for the music.
So far, the Rythmik subwoofer that interests me the most is the L22 with dual 12" paper drivers (it doesn't seem to be available as a model with aluminum cones). Rythmik rates the L22 as having 4db greater output at 20Hz than their F12 and F12G subwoofers, yet it actually costs about $90 less than both those models. The L22 is rated at having the same output as their E15HP model at 20Hz, but the L22 costs $424 less than the E15HP. (The rectangular shape of the L22 also provides me with more placement options, either standing upright or on its side.) However, I imagine that the lower price of the L22 is reflective of its frequency response below 20Hz: The L22 drops down 3db at 18Hz, while the F12 and E15 models extend a little deeper, and are down by 3db at 14 Hz. Still, it strikes me that both of the dual-driver models that Rythmik sells -- the L22 and the F25 -- are good bang-for-the-buck values (especially the F25, which seems like the best bargain of all the subs that Rythmik sells). Oddly enough, the L22 doesn't seem to be sought-after by many of Rythmik's customers, at least judging from the page on their website devoted to owner testimonials/reviews: not a single review of the L22 can be found there, among the dozens that have been posted. :confused:
I'd love to be the proud owner of a couple of Rythmik F25s, but unfortunately they exceed my budget and space constraints. And soon Rythmik will be introducing an even larger sealed design, the F28, with two 18" drivers. I can only dream about owning a pair of those magnificent subs...

Thanks for your analysis -- your recommendations make perfect sense to me.
 

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Even when I had just one sub, a Hsu VTF-3 MK3 Turbo, I was using 80Hz as my crossover frequency. This leads me to suspect that, although my non subwoofer speakers are doing the same job as before, the improvement I am hearing may be the result of my new subs being better able to produce lower frequencies with lower distortion than my old Hsu could handle.
It would be due more to that phenomenon than anything with the speakers. The change in SQ is not related to anything with the speakers because they're the exact same as they were. It's the subs that changed.
 
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So I have them both on carpet. Well the original one is half on and half off carpet. Original one had all feet on.



New one will be same. Front on carpet, back not. Should they both have feet or no?



In location 1



Doesn't look crazy big there. How's the size of this unit compared to PB13/16 ?
Congrats on ur new unit. We are all waiting for a review :)


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Doesn't look crazy big there. How's the size of this unit compared to PB13/16 ?
Congrats on ur new unit. We are all waiting for a review :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure if the comparison since I haven't seen the PB13/16. I haven't gotten them setup yet permanently. I did put the feet on. Will let everyone know once i get them setup correctly
 

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Not sure if the comparison since I haven't seen the PB13/16. I haven't gotten them setup yet permanently. I did put the feet on. Will let everyone know once i get them setup correctly


And just before the weekend. That is perfect timing man.


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@tvuong

Refresh my memory! When gain matching, if one sub post Audyssey calibration is at a higher or lower level than the other what do you do?
I set them both to the average of the 2 trims. I then add +12 (hot) on top of that. In my case, the two trims are usually within a db or a db and a half of each other post Audyssey.
 

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Oddly enough, the L22 doesn't seem to be sought-after by many of Rythmik's customers, at least judging from the page on their website devoted to owner testimonials/reviews: not a single review of the L22 can be found there, among the dozens that have been posted.
There are two reviews for the L22 on Rythmik's website:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22_reviews.html

Also.. I have one L22 and think it's great!
 

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On stereo sub signals: It is worth the reminder that the wavelength of a 100 Hz signal is 11.3 feet, at 80 Hz it is 14.1', and at 50 Hz it is 22.5'. That is one reason mixes typically mix to mono, not much separation at those frequencies in the average room.
 

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There are two reviews for the L22 on Rythmik's website:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22_reviews.html
Also.. I have one L22 and think it's great!
Thanks for pointing out those reviews to me. I feel a little silly about overlooking them completely, because they aren't posted on the comprehensive review page. The Rythmik site seems to have all sorts of labyrinthine nooks and crannies, and I have found it to be kind of an odd maze to navigate. They're building GREAT subs, but I'd like to offer the friendly suggestion to update their site, so it's more intuitively organized, and displays their subwoofers to better advantage. I'm thinking they could hire some smart college intern from the University of Texas at Austin who would be happy to work up a handsome new website design at low cost. This isn't meant to be snarky, but the first time I browsed the Rythmik site it actually reminded me of those little black-and-white ads you would see on the back pages of Popular Science Magazine in the 1970s (!) Then again, maybe that retro look is doing a fine job of promoting their subs, just as it is right now...
:cool:
 

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There are two reviews for the L22 on Rythmik's website:

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22_reviews.html

Also.. I have one L22 and think it's great!
I had dual l22's but had to return. Them during the trial due to money reasons. They sounded great and also doubled as speaker stands. I also didn't hear much about them but went ahead anyway, and couldn't have been happier.

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Congrats on scoring another FV. What is your impression so far running dual? A MAZ ING?
To be fair I've actually listened to them very little. Been trying to get them in good positions with good PEQ applied. Not happening so far. Wondering if I will be able to integrate both in my room successfully. I had much better response with just 1. Since I have never heard someone say that before, I feel like I must be doing something wrong.
 
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