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Seems to be a lot of that going around. My delivery was originally scheduled for Thursday but I couldn't work from home that day, so I contacted UPS and had them switch it to Friday. This morning I get a call from them to let me know it's going to be delivered on Monday instead. When I asked why they missed their commitment date they didn't have anything to say other than blah-blah-blah. Now I have to scramble in order to work around their shortcomings.
I am definitely looking forward to reading your review of the Rythmik FV18 :grin:
 

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thank you so much for that. I was able to show my wife and give her a "See it's not just me!"
LOL I did the same when I bought my svs Ultra's a couple years ago.
 

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@bscool

If I had my measuring gear still I would measure before applying boost and after. There are other guys in this thread with the gear that could test your theory out. Audyssey sets the trims too damn low, so that's why just about everyone applies boost post Audyssey. In my case both are 6 db's hot. I'm sure others will chime in and share their thoughts.
 

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No, you don't want to do that. It is messing up what Audyssey set.

@mthomas47 will know where to link you to or be able to explain it better. But like I said in my previous post you do not want to change anything after running Audyssey other than turning up each sub equally. If I find a link that explains it better I will post it.

I can see how people get confused I just was reading the Audyssey thread and it is incorrect or needs a note added, it talks about changing the sub levels like you did. I know you cannot just change separate sub levels without it changing your frequency response. They both need to go up or down the same amount. I have checked it myself and also saw @basshead81 post about this also today in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread-977.html#post53089210

I am adding this to try to explain why upping one sub and turning down another will not work if they are in different locations in the room. Say you have sub 1 in a spot that has a null/dip at 30hz at your seating position and sub 2 has a boost/hump at 30hz. If you raise sub 1 and lower sub 2 that 30hz null just got worse. That is why any changes to independent subs need to be made equally in the same direction.

I must be missing something because no one else in the Audyssey thread has noticed it or mentioned it. Or I misunderstanding something.
Hi,

I don't think you are misunderstanding anything. I just don't remember the question coming up in a long time. The advice has always been to raise (or lower) gain or trim levels symmetrically. I can't amend the FAQ to clarify this point, but, based on this discussion, I will amend the subwoofer guide linked in my signature. I do think that there is some merit to having subs relatively gain-matched and level-matched, but as your graphs demonstrate, asymmetrical changes to sub levels, post-calibration, can definitely affect the frequency response.

I can't explain it any better than you did in your two posts, but something like this is what I will add to the guide:

"It is important to make any sub gain or sub trim changes symmetrically--increasing or decreasing sub levels by the same amount. Audyssey attempts to level-match all of the subs in a system prior to assigning control points to the combined output of the subs. As noted previously, only one set of filters is assigned for the combined frequency response of all of the subs in the .1 channel. Once Audyssey sets those control points, changing the SPL of the subs asymmetrically, by raising the level of one sub and not another, or by adjusting sub levels in opposite directions, the result will be that the level playing field that Audyssey started with will be affected. And, that may result in an adverse change to the frequency response.

Whether the change in frequency response will be measurable, or audible, will probably depend on the extent of the difference in sub levels from what Audyssey started with. But, it is generally inadvisable to make asymmetrical changes in sub levels without a very good reason to do so, and without the ability to measure the effects of such a change. Negating the positive effects of room EQ is obviously counterproductive to our intent in running the automated EQ to begin with."

Regards,
Mike
 

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@bscool

If I had my measuring gear still I would measure before applying boost and after. There are other guys in this thread with the gear that could test your theory out. Audyssey sets the trims too damn low, so that's why just about everyone applies boost post Audyssey. In my case both are 6 db's hot. I'm sure others will chime in and share their thoughts.
Hi,

Please read the subwoofer guide linked in my signature. There are very good reasons for why Audyssey sets the subwoofer levels where it does, and very good reasons for virtually all of us to need to raise sub levels after an Audyssey calibration. All of this is a well understood phenomenon. The only question in play here is whether it is better to raise sub levels symmetrically, or not, and I believe that it is.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Chart looks good. I am considering grabbing a Yamaha A3070 this summer, will be curious to see how I like the newer YPAO vs XT32. If all else fails, I can get Chad to calibrate the system with REW, the Yamaha has a nice PEQ.
 

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If somebody is interested, we have one of a kind G25-SE subwoofer available. It's a dual opposed 15" sealed subwoofer (size: 18"(W) x 25"(D) x 24"(H) amplifier adds 1" width) with a pair of DS1501 drivers and HX800XLR3 amp. Specifications are the same as F25 but with 0.5dB less output than F25 due to smaller cabinet. Price is $1599 shipped.
 

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Hey enrico, how do you think one FV18 would pair with one FV15HP? In my setup one FV15HP is in part of the HT enclosed with 3 walls, the other is on the other side of the HT and it opens into a larger area and obviously has to work harder.




If you note the sub on the right, past it is an area with a dining room, kitchen and front door entry way.

That being said, there may not be that much difference in the two power wise. For them to be balanced with XT32 dual sub eq, the one more inside the room has a gain setting about 10oclock, and the one on the edge of the other rooms is about 11 oclock. Not sure how large of a difference this is.
 
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Hey enrico, how do you think one FV18 would pair with one FV15HP? In my setup one FV15HP is in part of the HT enclosed with 3 walls, the other is on the other side of the HT and it opens into a larger area and obviously has to work harder.




If you note the sub on the right, past it is an area with a dining room, kitchen and front door entry way.

That being said, there may not be that much difference in the two power wise. For them to be balanced with XT32 dual sub eq, the one more inside the room has a gain setting about 10oclock, and the one on the edge of the other rooms is about 11 oclock. Not sure how large of a difference this is.
From 10 to 11 is about 2 clicks on the gain knob which is OK is you are not doing gain matching. I'm doing gain matching with my pair of F12SEs and the difference is from 10 to 12 o'clock. Of course one subwoofer is from 2011 and the other is from 2014. Same amp model (PEQ2) but from different batch of production.
 
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Perfect, then there is not some huge discrepancy then.

Nothing ever sounds like it is out of gas, they just shake everything ;)

XXX Return of Xander Cage UHD had some great LFE in it last night.
 

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If somebody is interested, we have one of a kind G25-SE subwoofer available. It's a dual opposed 15" sealed subwoofer (size: 18"(W) x 25"(D) x 24"(H) amplifier adds 1" width) with a pair of DS1501 drivers and HX800XLR3 amp. Specifications are the same as F25 but with 0.5dB less output than F25 due to smaller cabinet. Price is $1599 shipped.
Is that Piano black? So tempting… but the FV28 is on the horizon! 🤔
 

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So... how did that get back out of the truck? Or did you take the forklift with you? :p
The box is not as large as I had imagined, 40"x18½"×16½". Weight was 200lbs w/pallet. ~175lbs without I'd guess.

With help, we simply lowered the box from the bed of the truck to a furniture dolly.
 

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Hey enrico, how do you think one FV18 would pair with one FV15HP? In my setup one FV15HP is in part of the HT enclosed with 3 walls, the other is on the other side of the HT and it opens into a larger area and obviously has to work harder.




If you note the sub on the right, past it is an area with a dining room, kitchen and front door entry way.

That being said, there may not be that much difference in the two power wise. For them to be balanced with XT32 dual sub eq, the one more inside the room has a gain setting about 10oclock, and the one on the edge of the other rooms is about 11 oclock. Not sure how large of a difference this is.
Do you have any alternate placements for the second sub (the one on the right). Somewhere along a sidewall or the rear wall? I've found that placing your duals directly to the sides of your CC is no different than colocating them under your CC. You should move it to truly get the benefits of duals. JMHO, YMMV
 

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^^ Really? Best FR stacking? First time hearing that.


Yeah everywhere else in the room I put the other have me a horrible null from 50-60hz. Then I stack and I get much BETTER frequency response than when I just had the one there. @AustinJerry over in the REW thread did mention that ceiling height can cause nulls at certain positions. My guess is that maybe the ceiling or room openings etc. we're causing something that a sub placed a few feet off the ground defeated.
 

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Do you have any alternate placements for the second sub (the one on the right). Somewhere along a sidewall or the rear wall? I've found that placing your duals directly to the sides of your CC is no different than colocating them under your CC. You should move it to truly get the benefits of duals. JMHO, YMMV
Nah, thats it in this setup.
 

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The FV18 has been unleashed (well… unboxed)!

Unboxing was quite simple. I just opened the bottom of the boxes (double-boxed) and lifted the boxes up and off. I left the FV18 in the bottom foam for now. It is on a furniture dolly, so it is 8" taller than normal now. Good for me to evaluate the size of the FV25.

The grill is the thickest (3cm thick frame) yet thinnest (stocking-like) fabric of any sub I have experienced. I would like Rythmik to explore a magnetic grill that doesn't cover the ports (I may try to rig one up myself). It could be used on both the FV18 and F18. Once I test the limits of this baby I will test and see if the grill has any audible or tactile effect on the port output. The grill is quite sturdy and I doubt my 3-year-old can remove it. I will likely have to keep the grill removed to protect it from damage.

The high-excursion anodized aluminum driver is like a shallow wok. It seems much lighter than the treated paper drivers used by others. There is a metallic resonance when I knock on it, but I doubt that will make any difference in performance. It does seem to attract some dust. I'm excited to see the agility of the servo system! I will be very interested in swapping for the silver driver down the road.

I'm fairly impressed by the vinyl black oak veneer. While it does not feel like wood (it is slicker) it looks it. I prefer this veneer to the standard blacks offered by PSA and JTR. The form factor is reminiscent of the JTR Cap 1400. It will be interesting to see the FV18, JTR 118, and PSA V1801 all lined up together. It is a bit tall to be used as a side table, unless you lay it on its side (still awkward).

I like thay Rythmik included a right-angled power cord. I usually buy these from monoprice to replace straight cables.

I am going to be testing this downstairs in the den (and outside) for now. I will have a JTR Cap 118 arriving next week and other members will be bringing subs for our upcoming GTG in June.

SoCal/LAAVA.org Spring 2017 Subwoofer meet
 

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Yeah everywhere else in the room I put the other have me a horrible null from 50-60hz. Then I stack and I get much BETTER frequency response than when I just had the one there. @AustinJerry over in the REW thread did mention that ceiling height can cause nulls at certain positions. My guess is that maybe the ceiling or room openings etc. we're causing something that a sub placed a few feet off the ground defeated.
Better FR than having one FV?
 

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Yeah everywhere else in the room I put the other have me a horrible null from 50-60hz. Then I stack and I get much BETTER frequency response than when I just had the one there. @AustinJerry over in the REW thread did mention that ceiling height can cause nulls at certain positions. My guess is that maybe the ceiling or room openings etc. we're causing something that a sub placed a few feet off the ground defeated.
Have you tried rotating the 2nd sub ±90°? Sometimes that does the trick.
 
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