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MDF is actually the most common cabinet material for speakers and subwoofers. It's compatible with a wide variety of finishes, including paint, and is rather inert so it makes a good choice for speakers and subwoofers. When you think about the fact it's essentially sawdust and glue fused together with heat and pressure it does make you wonder about some of its properties, but the stuff seems to work well.
+1

Okay. Thanks. I guess I was just a little confused when reading Jim’s review of the G25HP, where he said there were finish options in, “...black oak veneer, matte black vinyl and a high gloss 'piano' finish.” I understood what he was talking about with the black matte vinyl finish, where it is just vinyl applied directly to the MDF. But, I was assuming that the other two finishes where veneer’s with either a high gloss paint applied for piano black or a stain for the black oak. I’m only asking, since I have very little understanding of woodworking. I didn’t know that MDF could be sanded very smooth and painted directly.
Just for your woodworking education:)
Actually MDF is very smooth, and very heavy. The one of the reason many quality manufacturer use this as there prefer cabinet material.
Another material that is often use in other quality cabinets, is Birch Marine Plywood. Very heavy and very expensive, between the two. I prefer MDF for it's ease of use, if you built your cabinets.

I once ask why they do not use hard wood or other fancy materials.
The answer was very simple. Speakers and subs re-produce sound, and should not produce sound like an instrument.
Therefor MDF or Birch Marine Wood been the choices, of quality manufacturers.
Since they are very inert, and do not produce there own sound like an instrument.


Darth
 

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Just for your woodworking education:)
Actually MDF is very smooth, and very heavy. The one of the reason many quality manufacturer use this as there prefer cabinet material.
Another material that is often use in other quality cabinets, is Birch Marine Plywood. Very heavy and very expensive, between the two. I prefer MDF for it's ease of use, if you built your cabinets.


I once ask why they do not use hard wood or other fancy materials.
The answer was very simple. Speakers and subs reproduce sound, and not produce sound like an instrument.
Plywood can be great if used properly:
 

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Plywood can be great if used properly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEh01PX-q9I
Of course, the reason I mention Birch Marine Plywood.
Unfortunately, this video is way too long for my small time on the computer.
That said, working with MDF. Is very dusty to cut and round out the edges, when working as DIY:(

Did add your link to my favorites, but look it will take me a while to install-it and figure out hoe to install-it properly.
When there is a will, there is a way to figure your personal restriction (computer programs for me):)

Thanks!!!


Darth
 

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Crazy that I been watching these type of videos including the one you linked. Since I cant find towers I like i am pursuing making own with custom crossovers and drivers.

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You can try those guys;
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/
In my DIY days (late 90'), after I figure what drivers to get for my budget.
They figure the volume of my cabinets require, how far the Tweeter/mids should be from each other within the cabinet.
And even had pre-made cabinets, to test in an sound test room chamber (acoustic chamber).

For DIY, these threads are great place to start;
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/


Darth
 

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75" Samsung Q80R QLED, Denon AVR3300, Revel F36, C25, W263, FV15HP x 2, ATV4K, Sony Blu Ray, Harmony
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So after lots of testing, I still haven't filled my nulls. So fortunately I'll be getting another fv25hp to fill in the nulls my space is less then 800 sqft and somehow 1 is not enough for me. 2 should fix my nulls and OCD with my right side being different from my left. Can never have too much bass, that's my problem

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If you place them symmetrically for aesthetics as if they were speakers for imaging, it may not improve your response. Be willing to put them where they need to go if you want a good response. You might get lucky and symmetrical placement on the front stage might do it, but often does not.
 

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Yes, duals symmetrical placed in the front does not give me an even response. It cleaned up everything except a null at 45hz for me.

I just spent some time on the REW room simulator and I think I found the perfect spot for a really nice frequency response, will need to run sweeps to verify. Only problem is, I just tried to negotiate it with the wife and she said absolutely not. That’s now in the dining area she said. lol.

She said if anything goes there it will be a small wine fridge. I said I could get something made to make the sub look like a small fridge. Win win! ;)

She is leaving for a long weekend in a couple of weeks. Might have to surprise her when she comes back. Lol

If I am reading the room simulator right, this is a pretty good frequency response right? Most other placement have a big null at 45hz. This placement puts it right in this little nook between my dining area and living area, right where that plant thing is.. I think it would look nice myself. :)
 

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Yes, duals symmetrical placed in the front does not give me an even response. It cleaned up everything except a null at 45hz for me.

I just spent some time on the REW room simulator and I think I found the perfect spot for a really nice frequency response, will need to run sweeps to verify. Only problem is, I just tried to negotiate it with the wife and she said absolutely not. That’s now in the dining area she said. lol.

She said if anything goes there it will be a small wine fridge. I said I could get something made to make the sub look like a small fridge. Win win! ;)

She is leaving for a long weekend in a couple of weeks. Might have to surprise her when she comes back. Lol
A push/pull non-vibration sealed sub that is also a wine rack. Now there you go!!!
 

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Just for your woodworking education:)
Actually MDF is very smooth, and very heavy. The one of the reason many quality manufacturer use this as there prefer cabinet material.
Another material that is often use in other quality cabinets, is Birch Marine Plywood. Very heavy and very expensive, between the two. I prefer MDF for it's ease of use, if you built your cabinets.

I once ask why they do not use hard wood or other fancy materials.
The answer was very simple. Speakers and subs reproduce sound, and not produce sound like an instrument.
Therefor MDF or Birch Marine Wood been the choices, of quality manufacturers.
Since they are very inert, and do not produce there own sound like an instrument.


Darth

I think that I finally understand now. Since the MDF is naturally very smooth, then it can be painted with either a high gloss paint for "piano black" or a flat black paint for the "matte black" finish. For those that want the appearance of wood grain, they can get the "black oak grain" finish which would be a vinyl wrap applied to the MDF. Obviously this would be the only way to get the appearance of grain, since MDF doesn't have any grain to it. Is that right?
 

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I think that I finally understand now. Since the MDF is naturally very smooth, then it can be painted with either a high gloss paint for "piano black" or a flat black paint for the "matte black" finish. For those that want the appearance of wood grain, they can get the "black oak grain" finish which would be a vinyl wrap applied to the MDF. Obviously this would be the only way to get the appearance of grain, since MDF doesn't have any grain to it. Is that right?
Or you apply a wood veneer. Just to note, MDF is smooth and hard, but also quite porous. It soaks up a finish if not properly prepped. Google "diy piano black finish" and you'll get lots of info on what it takes to get this finish.
 

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Or you apply a wood veneer.
Enrico said that all finishes were directly over MDF, when I asked about any wood veneer options. This is why I'm thinking that the wood grain finish is the vinyl wrap. Unless I was misunderstanding him before.

Just to note, MDF is smooth and hard, but also quite porous. It soaks up a finish if not properly prepped. Google "diy piano black finish" and you'll get lots of info on what it takes to get this finish.
Interesting. It makes sense when you say this, where one might miss this the first time trying to finish it. I have no such plans. I'll just pay for it to be finished well.
 

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Or you apply a wood veneer.
Enrico said that all finishes were directly over MDF, when I asked about any wood veneer options. This is why I'm thinking that the wood grain finish is the vinyl wrap. Unless I was misunderstanding him before.
My comment was in general, not what Rythmik does.
 

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Yes, duals symmetrical placed in the front does not give me an even response. It cleaned up everything except a null at 45hz for me.

I just spent some time on the REW room simulator and I think I found the perfect spot for a really nice frequency response, will need to run sweeps to verify. Only problem is, I just tried to negotiate it with the wife and she said absolutely not. That’s now in the dining area she said. lol.

She said if anything goes there it will be a small wine fridge. I said I could get something made to make the sub look like a small fridge. Win win! ;)

She is leaving for a long weekend in a couple of weeks. Might have to surprise her when she comes back. Lol

If I am reading the room simulator right, this is a pretty good frequency response right? Most other placement have a big null at 45hz. This placement puts it right in this little nook between my dining area and living area, right where that plant thing is.. I think it would look nice myself. :)

Primarily due to WAF, but also due to a touch of OCD, I too have had to contend with making the best of two subs on the front wall. Placing them exactly symmetrical exaggerated a dip around 55 htz that I had with sub one. I did experiment with placing the 2nd sub unsymmetrically left of my left speaker, as I had about 4ft of spare space available. While I'm sure extensive experimentation could have led to better results, the Mrs shot that placement down the second she saw it without bothering to allow me much chance to experiment with EQ/PEQ and fine tuning the placement.


So I went back to an almost symmetrical placement and experimented with pulling sub2 out from the front wall. Turned out, just pulling sub2 out about 8" from the front wall further than sub 1, led to pulling my 55htz dip from; ~7.5dB +/- with one sub, to +/-10dB with two perfectly symmetrical, to ~3.5-4db+/- with sub2 about 8" further out from the front wall. Very much a noticeable difference in SQ. And they are symmetrical left to right, so no other average OCD people notice this. I have one OCD friend that understands bass reflections, nulls/peaks etc and he inquired about the off set placement relative to the front wall. No one else has ever noticed. Ever.


Regarding the Mrs being out of town, I would definitely capitalize on that for experimentation. Mine hates, absolutely hates hearing Audyssey & REW sweeps, so her absence alone is reason enough to experiment for me, but I've discovered that after the experimentation, in the end, she always endorses the SQ improvements.


It has been a hard fought battle, but she really appreciates the SQ and after some listening time has been willing to compromise on aesthetic considerations. After time, I don't think she would be willing to go backwards. So much so, I'm considering a new battle for Rythmik's big boys. Probably not FV25HP's, but possibly two G25HP's, or maybe two F18's. Maybe even ported two FV18's?


I state all this to say: capitalize on her absence, better to ask for forgiveness than for permission!


I'm willing to bet a small amount she will grow to appreciate the SQ.


And you can always put the plant on top.
 

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hi all

have a few qs about my fairly recently acquired Rythmik LV12R sub which i was hoping y'all could help me with.

1) played "war of the worlds" scene (where the aliens come out of the ground) to try out the sub & saw the led light at the back of the Rythmik LV12R subwoofer blinking few times. the subwoofer gain was at 5 notches above 12 o'clock (approx 1 o'clock) & the avr's volume at around 14 (have run audyssey with the sub at 12 o'clock which returned a trim for the sub of -5). playing around with the gain and avr volume find that the blinking in that scene starts occuring at about 3 notches above 12 o'clock & avr volume at 15+. if i turned down the gain/avr volume a little then it only blinked once (when the first ray is shot). I've read here that it's a sign of the limiter kicking in, but what does that mean? that the sub could get damaged? should i turn down the gain? what are the possible effects of keeping the gain at such a level that it clips occasionally as such demanding scenes are few.

2) in my setup i found that there's a big difference in the sub being at 12 o'clock where it sounds ok but like a regular sub & at say 2 o'clock where you really feel & enjoy it. is that ok or indicative of any issue? would it be ok to keep it at 2 o'clock if there is no audible distortion?

3) is it ok to flip the Bass extension switch/LPF slope setting while the sub is on & media is playing?

4) sometimes when i skip scenes in a movie there is a slight pop sound from the sub. i also have a klipsch rw12 sub connected & there is no such pop from it. what could that be due to?

5) in one of the pleasant (& unexpected) effects of having the LV12 - the aforementioned klipsch sub before the rythmik came in would rumble & make some creaking sounds in demanding scenes but now when i have both the subs on the klipsch has stopped making those noises. how does the rythmik stop another sub from doing that?

6) is it better to run audyssey with just the LV12R running or both subs on?

7) if i read the quick guide right, for movies Bass extension switch should be LOW & LPF to 12db & for music it should be HIGH-24db? so for what media should the Bass extension switch be on MID?

TIA
anyone?
 

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I'm sure others will chime in with their take, but from my perspective high damping is the only way to go. Now I'm a music first guy and willing to compromise with movies/tv. I suspect mid damping is a good compromise for those that dont prioritize music over movie LFE, but want the middle of the road for both and are not willing to get up and change the switch when converting from movies to music. For me, music is priority 1, so I just leave the switch to high and take what I get for movies/tv. You might be the opposite or somewhere in between. The somewhere inbetweener's that don't want to make adjustments from source to source might prefer the mid damping.YMMV.
 

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Enrico said that all finishes were directly over MDF, when I asked about any wood veneer options. This is why I'm thinking that the wood grain finish is the vinyl wrap. Unless I was misunderstanding him before.



Interesting. It makes sense when you say this, where one might miss this the first time trying to finish it. I have no such plans. I'll just pay for it to be finished well.
My comment was in general, not what Rythmik does.
I said "body shop" kinda paint finish. You cannot apply topcoat (piano black) directly on the MDF without prepping the surface. The whole process is made by hand and involve around 7 steeps:

1.- Fill with filler any marks, dents or screws.

2.- The whole cabinet is sanded.

3.- Primer is applied. Usually takes 2 or 3 coats of primer.

4.- The whole cabinet is re-sanded and wiped down with thinner.

5.- The topcoat of paint is applied. Same as the primer, 3 - 4 coats maybe necessary. Before the final coat, the whole cabinet is re-sanded with ultra fine sandpaper and clean with a rag.

6.- Apply a coat of lacquer. The same steps as applying the primer and topcoat are used with 1-2 coats usually being used.

7.- Buffing.
 

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hi all

have a few qs about my fairly recently acquired Rythmik LV12R sub which i was hoping y'all could help me with.

1) played "war of the worlds" scene (where the aliens come out of the ground) to try out the sub & saw the led light at the back of the Rythmik LV12R subwoofer blinking few times. the subwoofer gain was at 5 notches above 12 o'clock (approx 1 o'clock) & the avr's volume at around 14 (have run audyssey with the sub at 12 o'clock which returned a trim for the sub of -5). playing around with the gain and avr volume find that the blinking in that scene starts occuring at about 3 notches above 12 o'clock & avr volume at 15+. if i turned down the gain/avr volume a little then it only blinked once (when the first ray is shot). I've read here that it's a sign of the limiter kicking in, but what does that mean? that the sub could get damaged? should i turn down the gain? what are the possible effects of keeping the gain at such a level that it clips occasionally as such demanding scenes are few.

2) in my setup i found that there's a big difference in the sub being at 12 o'clock where it sounds ok but like a regular sub & at say 2 o'clock where you really feel & enjoy it. is that ok or indicative of any issue? would it be ok to keep it at 2 o'clock if there is no audible distortion?

3) is it ok to flip the Bass extension switch/LPF slope setting while the sub is on & media is playing?

4) sometimes when i skip scenes in a movie there is a slight pop sound from the sub. i also have a klipsch rw12 sub connected & there is no such pop from it. what could that be due to?

5) in one of the pleasant (& unexpected) effects of having the LV12 - the aforementioned klipsch sub before the rythmik came in would rumble & make some creaking sounds in demanding scenes but now when i have both the subs on the klipsch has stopped making those noises. how does the rythmik stop another sub from doing that?

6) is it better to run audyssey with just the LV12R running or both subs on?

7) if i read the quick guide right, for movies Bass extension switch should be LOW & LPF to 12db & for music it should be HIGH-24db? so for what media should the Bass extension switch be on MID?

TIA
1) limiter kicks in when the sub is expected to play louder than it can and that is based on the combined effect of the master volume, sw level in AVR, and sub gain knob position. The conventional advice is to set the sw level in AVR at -6dB or lower after adding whatever boost you want and they add more via gain knob if necessary.

(However, you would want to start with a sub gain knob position that results in Audyssey setting the sub level around -10dB to -11dB or so, to allow you to turn up the sw level without exceeding -6dB or so. Then add via gain knob if you need more bass.)

Of course, because the sub can only play so loud, especially the smallest ported Rythmik, scenes with strong bass especially under 30Hz can trip the limiter if you are adding too much bass boost and/or simply have master volume too high. I would find a balance of MV, sw level and gain knob that results in the limiter not engaging at all or only slightly on the most demanding scenes. That will help protect the sub from amp clipping and driver over-excursion.

Brian has mentioned turning things down even just 1-2dB can stop the limiter from kicking in.


2) This is normal, especially with well designed subs like Rythmiks... they only draw attention to themselves when needed. If you want to know the sub is playing at all times you will likely be running things quite hot (ample bass boost).

However, you should respect the limits of the sub (or get more/bigger subs and/or more optimal placement, integration, EQ, etc.)

That means limiter should rarely if ever kick in and the sub amp should not get hot to the touch during long, intense listening sessions. You want to make sure that there is some headroom above your listening levels so that the sub is not constantly being pushed to its limits or beyond.


3) I would switch off the sub before adjusting LPF slope otherwise a loud pop occurs. Adjusting Bass Extension/Damping can be done with sub on, but I would pause or mute audio to be safe. I think if using Line In, crossover knob at max and 12dB LPF slope should be ideal for music and movies. Mid bass extension/damping on the LV12R is the best compromise IMO. High gives up too extension and Low is too boomy for best music SQ to me.

For the rest)

Running duals (properly gain matched and time/polarity aligned) will put less stress on each sub vs. single sub... however, I would use 2 of the same sub for best results and run both through Audyssey.
 

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In terms of output, the real competition for the SB3000 would be the L22, not the F12. The L22 would have more output and lower extension than the SB3000 at a lower price.
I'm confused.... So your saying the $539 L22 hits harder than your $980 F12?
F12 has more controls and deeper extension. L22 has fewer controls and less extension, but more output above 20Hz.
 
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