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The wife doesn't mind when I am doing REW sweeps. The dog on the other hand goes in to a full panic attack. :)
I think I misrepresented my wife there. She doesn't mind the sweeps. It's the "hours" of time spent over multiple days to get them dialed in. It's more of a "me" problem. It's my ADD and getting hyper focused on something. In my defense, I was trying many different approaches. I feel I'm better at it now.
 
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I try to take all subjective reviews with a grain of salt. Some of the clearly worst designed speakers made with abysmal on and off axis response have die hard fan boys that will rave about their sound quality despite evidence otherwise. The ears are easily fooled by bias, price, brand reputation, subjective reviews etc etc. This is not a reliable indicator of sound quality imo.

Take a look at this thread if you want to help ensure you are selecting speakers with good sound quality. There are other, perhaps better ways to select a speaker than attempting countless in person demos that give dubious results for various reasons:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/3038828-how-choose-loudspeaker-what-science-shows.html

Sites where you can find some good objective measurements on speakers:
Stereophile(just skip the flowery audiophile portion)
Soundstagenetwork https://soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=140
AudioScienceReview https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?forums/speaker-reviews-measurements-and-discussion-forum.54/
Audioholics

Thanks for the references. I really wish Audioholics would do an in-depth review of one of the more popular models as I trust them probably the most of any of the review sites. They had a preview of the Pendragons (I believe) way back in 2012 which has outdated info now. But I've read everything I could find over the last week or so and I'm satisfied that they are what they say they are, my only concern at this point is would I actually prefer them to my Kefs. Most people apparently think so but I'm not so sure. Kefs generally just sound "right" to me and by all accounts I've got some pretty good Kefs, so it's hard to just decide to sell them off. I probably won't do it. I'm following a thread in another forum where a guy just ordered his Moabs and he has/has had some pretty good equipment so I'm following along to see how they shake out for him. They are undoubtedly interesting, though!
 

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Well, the room doesn't exist yet! We're getting ready to build a house that will have a dedicated room. We've had some trouble with builders following through on things so we're meeting with a new one on Thursday that seems promising, so fingers crossed. Home building is still booming in our area so they don't really need the work. I've had the speakers for some time now, almost all of them still in factory sealed boxes. G22 (I have one so far, another to follow) I did open to inspect and swoon over, then sealed back up.



As crazy as it sounds, I'm considering selling all the Kefs and going with Tektons, specifically Moabs for main L/R. Not sure yet what models for the rest. I generally love the Kef sound and have never even heard the ones I own so this is completely out of left field, but boy, those Tektons seem like incredible values and universally get maybe the best reviews of any speaker I've ever seen. I'll have the space for them as my room will be 22x18x11. Just seems like if I'm gonna do it I should go ahead and do it now since them being factory sealed should aide in selling/shipping them. I literally waffle on this from day to day and I feel wishy-washy even considering it but still can't help but wonder if it might be a good move.
So frustrating dealing with contractors. Staying within budget and time seems like wishful thinking.

I only read about Tektons for the first time several weeks ago so I have nothing to go off of except for the website testimonials. They seem so busy, but there's something intriguing about them, especially for a dedicated room. I like the options they have for finishes. I just wonder how they can do so much for the price that they charge. I mean, they aren't inexpensive, and they do get up there in price, but for the amount of equipment used, I'd expect an even higher price. You get a no-risk trial period, so at least you have that option.

The KEF R-series is one of the best priced speakers for a non ID company for their musical and HT performance at their MSRP. Figure in the deep discount you got them at, and it's going to be tough to find something that does what they do at that price point. The Uni-Q is a dream for imaging. That's a big room to fill no doubt, but with the right processing and amplification, the KEFs would be killer. You may want to save the money you'd put into the Tekton's and get two more G22s, or see if Rythmik would give you the full credit back on the G22s and step up to the G25HPs since I think you preferred the sealed subs.
 

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The KEF R-series is one of the best priced speakers for a non ID company for their musical and HT performance at their MSRP. Figure in the deep discount you got them at, and it's going to be tough to find something that does what they do at that price point. The Uni-Q is a dream for imaging. That's a big room to fill no doubt, but with the right processing and amplification, the KEFs would be killer. You may want to save the money you'd put into the Tekton's and get two more G22s, or see if Rythmik would give you the full credit back on the G22s and step up to the G25HPs since I think you preferred the sealed subs.

Agree with all you've said about the R-series. I did briefly consider the G25's but I'm pretty convinced that the 22's will be plenty for me, and if not I can get a third G22 and it would still be cheaper than 2 G25's. I'll be powering my main L/R with a Parasound A21. Already have that, too. I got one of the last new ones sold in the US before they switched to the A21+, and also at a nice discount. Will almost certainly be buying an Outlaw 7000x for the 6 height speakers, and maybe another one for the ear-levels, plus a 2200 mono for the center. That or a Monolith 7X for all ear-levels. Biggest decision left (other than possibly betraying my Kefs) will be the pre/pro. Choosing between Monolith (current front-runner), JBL SDP-55, and the AudioControl X7.
 

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When purchasing gear of any type they all relate to what the new piece of kit will sound like.
Were possibly able demo in your own room with your other gear.
Also people have different taste or what they are use to.
When you demo at a shop room how many times do you get to listen to that component with exactly what you have, then you have the room.
 

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When purchasing gear of any type they all relate to what the new piece of kit will sound like.
Were possibly able demo in your own room with your other gear.
Also people have different taste or what they are use to.
When you demo at a shop room how many times do you get to listen to that component with exactly what you have, then you have the room.

I don't disagree with you but in the case of the Moab's they are nearly 6' tall, 150lb beasts and my room will be on the second floor. I'm gonna need to be pretty dang sure they're what I want to go with before committing to all that. Moot point, though, unless I just happen to meet someone that has some somewhere reasonably close to me as they are internet direct only. Being a dedicated room, though, I'll be able to do whatever room treatments are needed to overcome any issues. Theoretically anyway. Plus all pre/pros under consideration have Dirac, the current state-of-the-art in room correction at anywhere near my budget.
 

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I guess the 22 crowd has graduated to multi 18s or 25s and are eagerly awaiting 28.

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While spending anytime at all in this thread (or on AVS in general) will typically instill a lust for MORE, some of us ARE able to resist! ;-) I've had my dual L22s for a little of 2 years now and still quite satisfied. Every now and then I wonder...but placement in my room is so constrained and the L22s fit and perform so well that I've no plans to "upgrade" to anything. Now, my room is 3000 cubic feet with a single standard door to the rest of the house so pressurizing it with two L22s is not really a problem.
 

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Does the rumble filter and limiter have any negative impact on sound quality? Curious why the manual says to leave it off for music.
 

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I spent about 6 hours trying to figure out REW today. Lots of trial and error. I pretty much gave up at midnight after re-running ARC. The results aren't close to perfect, but they seem to be a bit of an improvement. I also have to get used to the 12hz filter. I have been using 14hz up until now. I set REW to sweep from 10hz-120hz. I'm pretty happy with how 10hz-60hz looks. 60-100hz is a bit of a drop. You can tell I set a house curve from 20hz to 100hz.

Attached is the before and after as well as my REW results. The reason for the gap between the black/green lines and the red line in ARC is due to the 3.125db room gain. Is it worth setting the sweep to 200hz? I'm going to re-calibrate everything once I get my window and acoustic treatments.
 

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Does the rumble filter and limiter have any negative impact on sound quality? Curious why the manual says to leave it off for music.
I found on my F12s that I preferred the sound of music with the rumble filter off. It gave the sound just a little more weight.

If your material doesn't reach down low, you won't notice it. If you listen near the max of what your subs are capable of though, you'll want to leave it on.
 

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While spending anytime at all in this thread (or on AVS in general) will typically instill a lust for MORE, some of us ARE able to resist! ;-) I've had my dual L22s for a little of 2 years now and still quite satisfied. Every now and then I wonder...but placement in my room is so constrained and the L22s fit and perform so well that I've no plans to "upgrade" to anything. Now, my room is 3000 cubic feet with a single standard door to the rest of the house so pressurizing it with two L22s is not really a problem.
Everyone has those thoughts. I am still on the side of going for a pair of fv15hp instead of the fvx12s, but I'd not go on to say, I'm missing anything. The 12s are mini beasts in their own.

What I meant was for people looking for new subs are graduating from 15/18 to 25s.

Generally anyone buying their first sub will go for high power in less space (eg 12/15HP) or go purely for driver size (18). The 22 in my opinion will have a very niche market.

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I found on my F12s that I preferred the sound of music with the rumble filter off. It gave the sound just a little more weight.
it's a high pass filter, makes sense. i noticed the same when i had tri fv25's.
 

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Finally calibrated w/ Dual G25s....wow!

Well, now I know what these things are capable of - at least some what. I've had a G25 for a year, just added a second two weeks ago. I ran Audyssey but have always had trouble w/ REW. After spending HOURS trying to get it work, I listened to @muscles and @enricoclaudio and got a mac to use...I might return it, but maybe not after using that thing. REW was totally hiccup free. Within 10 mins, my sweeps were done. Now I just had to connect the Mini DSP and get that situated. I was clueless, so needed Gregs @muscles) help setting it up...dudes a genius. I may still do some tweaking, but attached pics show the before and after (or after and before - purple line is new graph). Because I spent so long on this, I haven't been able to do a ton of testing - but WOW what a difference. Literally night and day. I have significantly better bass and very low MV. I just watched a movie at -30 MV w/ the Mini DSP gain at -2 and the bass could still be felt. I love it.

Only issue we had - and I spent 4 hours troubleshooting this....when I ran the subs directly into the Marantz 8805 via XLR, Audyssey set the trims at -12. When I went into level test them, I swear I could hear/feel them. After running the Mini DSP + REW and then Audyssey I noticed the bass was significantly weaker. So, I went to test levels, and I could BARELY hear/feel them. The trim for "one" sub was now -6 but it felt much weaker. Enrico was stumped, as was Greg. Nobody had an answer. Finally, I just cranked the volume knob on the subs and tested tones at reference - ut read at 85db. Perfect. So I guess my question - have any of you experienced any gain attenuation when using Mini DSP? I had to turn the volume knobs from 11am to about 3pm. Wondering if the XLR to RCA adapters I'm using are causing a loss too? Either way, its fixed now! Just so odd that during Audysseys initial subwoofer test (keep the icon in the green area) it picked them up and said they were loud. Then during content and test tones they were inaudible. Oh well!

Couldn't be happier and I now realize duals were 100000% overkill for my room. However, I don't need to crank the MV as high now, as the room is filled w/ cleaner, deeper and tighter bass.
 

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Well, now I know what these things are capable of - at least some what. I've had a G25 for a year, just added a second two weeks ago. I ran Audyssey but have always had trouble w/ REW. After spending HOURS trying to get it work, I listened to @muscles and @enricoclaudio and got a mac to use...I might return it, but maybe not after using that thing. REW was totally hiccup free. Within 10 mins, my sweeps were done. Now I just had to connect the Mini DSP and get that situated. I was clueless, so needed Gregs @muscles) help setting it up...dudes a genius. I may still do some tweaking, but attached pics show the before and after (or after and before - purple line is new graph). Because I spent so long on this, I haven't been able to do a ton of testing - but WOW what a difference. Literally night and day. I have significantly better bass and very low MV. I just watched a movie at -30 MV w/ the Mini DSP gain at -2 and the bass could still be felt. I love it.



Only issue we had - and I spent 4 hours troubleshooting this....when I ran the subs directly into the Marantz 8805 via XLR, Audyssey set the trims at -12. When I went into level test them, I swear I could hear/feel them. After running the Mini DSP + REW and then Audyssey I noticed the bass was significantly weaker. So, I went to test levels, and I could BARELY hear/feel them. The trim for "one" sub was now -6 but it felt much weaker. Enrico was stumped, as was Greg. Nobody had an answer. Finally, I just cranked the volume knob on the subs and tested tones at reference - ut read at 85db. Perfect. So I guess my question - have any of you experienced any gain attenuation when using Mini DSP? I had to turn the volume knobs from 11am to about 3pm. Wondering if the XLR to RCA adapters I'm using are causing a loss too? Either way, its fixed now! Just so odd that during Audysseys initial subwoofer test (keep the icon in the green area) it picked them up and said they were loud. Then during content and test tones they were inaudible. Oh well!



Couldn't be happier and I now realize duals were 100000% overkill for my room. However, I don't need to crank the MV as high now, as the room is filled w/ cleaner, deeper and tighter bass.
Whoa, that's an awesome response. While I setup my subs through my yamaha AVR, I just bypass all filters from the AVR and leave it at manual. I only set filters on the output tab of the minidsp and don't add gains (+/-) to minidsp. I've set the LFE to a -9.0 db on the avr and my subs are running at 3 o'clock to 4 o'clock position on the gain knob of sub amp

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I found on my F12s that I preferred the sound of music with the rumble filter off. It gave the sound just a little more weight.

If your material doesn't reach down low, you won't notice it. If you listen near the max of what your subs are capable of though, you'll want to leave it on.

I keep the rumble filter on, mainly because I listen to vinyl and manual, as I recall, recommended to keep it on. I'll have to experiment with it off.
 

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Agree with all you've said about the R-series. I did briefly consider the G25's but I'm pretty convinced that the 22's will be plenty for me, and if not I can get a third G22 and it would still be cheaper than 2 G25's. I'll be powering my main L/R with a Parasound A21. Already have that, too. I got one of the last new ones sold in the US before they switched to the A21+, and also at a nice discount. Will almost certainly be buying an Outlaw 7000x for the 6 height speakers, and maybe another one for the ear-levels, plus a 2200 mono for the center. That or a Monolith 7X for all ear-levels. Biggest decision left (other than possibly betraying my Kefs) will be the pre/pro. Choosing between Monolith (current front-runner), JBL SDP-55, and the AudioControl X7.
I have no dog in the hunt regarding whether you end up with KEF or Tekton, don't own and have never owned either. However, I'm a firm believer in the science of well designed speakers, and this have served me very well in the selection of my own speakers. The KEF R series are an example of nearly perfect, textbook speaker design. The KEF R series bookshelf was tested at ASR and delivered one of the best sets of measured performance recorded at that site. I'm 99% sure that, in an accurate sound quality comparison, the KEF's are going to walk all over any Tekton design.

The design choices that Tekton makes are, IMO, just poor for a number of reasons. I'm not a speaker designer, but there are good reasons why no one else uses the bizarre design choices Tekton does. Things like a 2 way speaker with a giant woofer and a small tweeter.....you end up with poor directivity match. Woofers spread way apart for terrible off axis performance. Multiple tweeters that produce all kinds of off axis cancellation. Just saying, their designs principles are bad from a basic loudspeaker design standpoint, and the measured performance shows this in the models I've seen tested. Sure, the average person that hasn't heard exceptionally well designed speakers might like them, but no way they would stand up in a well conducted, level matched listening test to your KEF's. Just my opinion, but its based on really solid science of loudspeaker design and how measured performance affects subjective sound quality.

If you wanted to consider a different option from your KEF's in terms of speakers with a home theater focus, perhaps demo some JTR? How far do you sit from the speakers and what is your max listening level? If you are a good distance away and listen close to reference they might be worth a look. But for moderate volumes I think the KEF are going to hard to beat unless a wider dispersion design like Revel appeals to you more.
 

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Well, now I know what these things are capable of - at least some what. I've had a G25 for a year, just added a second two weeks ago. I ran Audyssey but have always had trouble w/ REW. After spending HOURS trying to get it work, I listened to @muscles and @enricoclaudio and got a mac to use...I might return it, but maybe not after using that thing. REW was totally hiccup free. Within 10 mins, my sweeps were done. Now I just had to connect the Mini DSP and get that situated. I was clueless, so needed Gregs @muscles) help setting it up...dudes a genius. I may still do some tweaking, but attached pics show the before and after (or after and before - purple line is new graph). Because I spent so long on this, I haven't been able to do a ton of testing - but WOW what a difference. Literally night and day. I have significantly better bass and very low MV. I just watched a movie at -30 MV w/ the Mini DSP gain at -2 and the bass could still be felt. I love it.

Only issue we had - and I spent 4 hours troubleshooting this....when I ran the subs directly into the Marantz 8805 via XLR, Audyssey set the trims at -12. When I went into level test them, I swear I could hear/feel them. After running the Mini DSP + REW and then Audyssey I noticed the bass was significantly weaker. So, I went to test levels, and I could BARELY hear/feel them. The trim for "one" sub was now -6 but it felt much weaker. Enrico was stumped, as was Greg. Nobody had an answer. Finally, I just cranked the volume knob on the subs and tested tones at reference - ut read at 85db. Perfect. So I guess my question - have any of you experienced any gain attenuation when using Mini DSP? I had to turn the volume knobs from 11am to about 3pm. Wondering if the XLR to RCA adapters I'm using are causing a loss too? Either way, its fixed now! Just so odd that during Audysseys initial subwoofer test (keep the icon in the green area) it picked them up and said they were loud. Then during content and test tones they were inaudible. Oh well!

Couldn't be happier and I now realize duals were 100000% overkill for my room. However, I don't need to crank the MV as high now, as the room is filled w/ cleaner, deeper and tighter bass.

Congrats, looks great! Tip: click on the camera icon at the top left corner of the graph to save a picture of the graph. You don't have to take a photo of the screen with your cell phone.
 

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I spent about 6 hours trying to figure out REW today. Lots of trial and error. I pretty much gave up at midnight after re-running ARC. The results aren't close to perfect, but they seem to be a bit of an improvement. I also have to get used to the 12hz filter. I have been using 14hz up until now. I set REW to sweep from 10hz-120hz. I'm pretty happy with how 10hz-60hz looks. 60-100hz is a bit of a drop. You can tell I set a house curve from 20hz to 100hz.

Attached is the before and after as well as my REW results. The reason for the gap between the black/green lines and the red line in ARC is due to the 3.125db room gain. Is it worth setting the sweep to 200hz? I'm going to re-calibrate everything once I get my window and acoustic treatments.

I think your plots look excellent.
 
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