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Discussion Starter #1

With the advice of AVS member pieandchips, thought it would be a good idea to create a thread where Samsung F8500 owners can quickly communicate with each other on various "bugs" that currently exist with the display.

 

One of the biggest arguments between owners is the use of Cinema Smooth.   

 

Many of us have argued that without Cinema Smooth enabled, the F8500 picture has a "soap opera" effect to it in both 3D and 2D mode.

 

Others have argued that Cinema Smooth needs to be turned off to get rid of the "soap opera" effect.

 

Turns out the reason so many owners were getting conflicting results is due to a bug that is inherent in the display, as of Firmware 1117.

 

 

I want to thank wxman, muffinmcfluffin and pieandchips for the following fix....

 
Quote:
There still is an occasional bug when you turn off CINEMA SMOOTH. It sometime puts MOTION JUTTER CONTROL in smooth, even though it says it is off. So immediately after turning CS off, turn MJC to smooth, and then back to off. Then you can watch all your 24p material without issues. You only need to do this once, unless you turn CS on again. For some weird reason, they have not fixed this bug with MJC. 
 
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There is a bug whereby MJC activates wen you DISABLE CS. You have to enable then disable MJC for it to clear
 

I am interested to see how many other owners this fix works for and if we can all finally come to agreement that Cinema Smooth is not good for this display in 2D or 3D.

 

And, moving forward, we can use this thread to report any other bugs/fixes with this display.
 

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With 1117 I noticed black levels raised in CS so much that I turned 24fps off on my bluray player. That helped, but mll too high still. I had to turn my bluray player's contrast down to compensate. With 1118 black levels look much better. No problem with 24fps or CS. No more firmware updates for me. Learned my lesson.
 
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Discussion Starter #4

Just wondering if the workaround above fixed the soap opera effect for everyone.....

 

....and how is everyone doing with firmware update 1118?
 

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Now wait a minute, just because there is a "fix" for this in 2D (which I always knew this to be the case since the first second I noticed MJC was kicking in for whatever reason and disabled it) doesn't mean that CS is bad for it in 2D. I believe it's bad for it in 3D and I prefer having CS off in 3D fully (as I mentioned time and time and time again), but in 2D I can't watch BD's with Cinema Smooth disabled. It looks so much better with it on in 2D IMO.
 

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My f8500 64 is having random flashes. not sure what's causing this. black optimizer is on auto. would be a shame if this is causing this and cannot utilize this function.
 

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CS works great 99% of the time. However since it basically using 4 identical frames in 96hz (4x24hz) to give the movie a smoother flow, every once in awhile it will hiccup and you can see an extra frame, or brief stutter.
 

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To the best fo my knowledge, there are only 3 "bugs" with respect to the F8500:


ECO bug (search "Floridaman"). This manifests itself as a "dimness" (for lack of a better description) that disappears when ECO is turned on and then off again after the MINIMUM cell value is altered. In other words, ECO goes on and defaults to CELL LIGHT value of 0, causing a dim display. This "bug" was fixed in later firmware. "Later" is not known but it appears that FW 1111 and later fix this.


BAD UPGRADE: Beginning with (about) 1115 FW, when an upgrade to FW was allowed while inputs were connected, a serious degredation in PQ occurred. Terminology differs, but "hazy", "indistinct", "less defined" and other descriptions said (basically) "before I upgraded, the PQ was fantastic, now it SUCKS\BLOWS CHUNKS". The fix is a full factory reset done from the service menu while all inputs are disconnected. Search postings by CamaroDrvr Damien Inferno for the exact sequence to overcome this. Edit to correctly attribute the OP. The link to Damien Inferno's post is http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475066/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-owners-thread-no-street-price-talk/2460#post_24101072


CINEMA SMOOTH and MOTION JUDDER CANLCELLER: When CS is turned off, MJC is turned on. The fix is to set MJC to SMOOTH and then back to OFF. This bug is not currently corrected. NOTE that MJC will report OFF even though it is ON, so Just Do It.


One other previous bug was "brightness pops" in 2D and 3D. Since neither has been reported recently, it is assumed that both have been corrected in FW 1116 and newer.


So my question and point is "why do we need a 'bugs' thread?" Isn't it more appropriate to ask Value Electronics to intervene with Samsung to get this stuff resolved? In plain English, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE IF YOU EXPECT THE EAR OF SAMSUNG. VE does have it. AVS does not.
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
So my question and point is "why do we need a 'bugs' thread?"
 

As the person who started this thread (from an idea expressed by another AVS member), I can see the need for a bugs thread.

 

In short, this thread is a handy one-stop resource for F8500 owners who may not be aware of what quirks/bugs exist with their display.

 

The discussion of these bugs were occurring in other F8500 threads, but getting lost in the total wealth of posting activity.

 

I think it's important to put these bugs up front, in a single thread, where all we discuss are quirky issues related to the display and temporary workarounds that can be done.

 

 
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Isn't it more appropriate to ask Value Electronics to intervene with Samsung to get this stuff resolved?
 

 

Yes, it is.  And this is the first time I am even hearing that Robert Zohn may have some influence with Samsung to get these issues resolved.

 

So, with that in mind, I am going to personally contact Mr. Zohn and make him aware of the problems being discussed here.

 

....however with that in mind, this thread would make the perfect reference point for Samsung to look at after Mr. Zohn alerts them of our concerns....don't you think?

 

 
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In plain English, YOU ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE IF YOU EXPECT THE EAR OF SAMSUNG.
 

 

I don't think anyone here ever thought Samsung was reading this thread.  Heck, contact their customer support and their own reps have no clue about these displays.

 

However, as I mentioned previously, this is a reference thread for owners.  Not Samsung.

 

I will go ahead and make certain that Robert Zohn (if he has the influence you say he does) is aware of this thread.  I can ask him to contact Samsung on our behalf.
 

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To add to what Ronald posted, the other threads have gotten so large that having one place where you can concisely find these bugs and some fixes has value.


WantsNWarrants summarized it very well.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.

 

My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.

 

Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.

 

Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein  /t/1515070/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-bugs-thread#post_24300161


I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.


My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.


Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.


Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?

Now there's the type of post that create the "nuisances" for most! You mention it's your "first full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" so why on earth would you be concerned until after maybe several "full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" viewings? Way to many things to be concerned about. If you have issues after maybe a half dozen or so "viewings" on "ALL" of them I might be concerned but on a "single" - I just can't understand the "looking for" something to dick with!
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Now there's the type of post that create the "nuisances" for most! You mention it's your "first full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" so why on earth would you be concerned until after maybe several "full length" "SIT DOWN AND WATCH" viewings? 
 

I will tell you why I am concerned.

 

I had all sorts of settings (Cinema Smooth, Judder Control, etc.) turned on prior to calibration that were turned off afterwards.

 

So, this being the first time I have noticed slight picture stutter, I am curious to see if something that was turned off perhaps should have been left on.

 

Sorry you got so offended by my post, but I see perfect logic in asking the question.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

...by the way...

 

I'm in communication with Robert Zohn of Value Electronics and he is willing to help push any issues anyone has with Samsung bugs to their engineering team.

 

I am compiling a list based on what has been posted here and submitting it to him.

 

I will keep you updated on any progress that is being made.
 

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"Weird volume display issue with new PN64F8500 connected to Onkyo 605"

 

Hello F8500 owners!  I'm having a strange problem with my new 8500.  Hopefully some of you have already solved this.  I have a directv STB and PS3 connected to my Onkyo 605 and HDMI out from the 605 to the 8500.  Performance is mind blowing as you already know.  This TV rocks.  But when I adjust volume with either remote (directv or either Samsung) I see 2 volume bars flash on the screen (2 similar but different styles).  They both appear to be Samsung because I see the Anynet logo on each of them.  One displays a speaker then volume number, and the other displays little dots to gauge volume.  It still works but is extremely annoying.

 

Other than that everything else is great except that I can't listen to smarthub apps unless I physically cycle through the digital input button on my 605 (I guess there isn't a remote button for that).  I have a digital optical cable running from the 8500 to the 605.  This isnt really a problem because I'm still used to using Netflix and Vudu from the PS3.

 

Well, that's about it.  Appreciate your experiences with these issues if you can relate.  Since my set just arrived yesterday let me know if you have any questions for me (software ver is 1118).  Look forward to chatting with you all.

 

Scott   
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein  /t/1515070/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-bugs-thread#post_24299836


So, is the final recommendation to turn on Cinema Smooth for 2D and leave it off for 3D?

If Cinema Smooth off worked correctly for 3D on my display, I would say yes. For me, either is completely unwatchable. CS enabled for 3D is headache inducing and changes the appearance of the entire image (in other words, I would have to "recalibrate" it compared to my "CS off" settings), and with CS disabled for 3D I have tons of crosstalk and the "brightness pops" issue (I'll go into further detail about that shortly). Whether I can get these resolved or not is one thing, but in essence the F8500 acts identically to the D7000 in terms of CS disabled being better for 3D material. I'm not sure why this is the case, because CS enabled for 2D material is the way to go IMO.


Anyway, onto the "brightness pops" issue...


It is more of a "darkness pop." I have since realized though that it is not the television that's doing it, it is the glasses. In other words, if you remove the glasses, you won't see the effect on your television. It's a communication issue between the glasses and the television, where the television is telling the glasses to darken at certain moments. Why is this happening? I have no idea. However, I have tried this with three sets of Samsung glasses. I have the ones that came with the TV, the SSG-2100AB's, and the SSG-3570CR's. All of them make this happen. This does not happen with CS enabled, by the way. So again, just remember that this is an effect only seen in the glasses, meaning it is an effect being done by the glasses themselves. Obviously the TV and the feature being off has something to do with it, but it is not the TV that is performing the actual visual effect that we have been calling "brightness pops," at least not for this specific issue.
 

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I do not know if this is a bug, or just normal. Eco mode is set separately for each mode. I thought when I did the eco mode trick in movie mode, where you turn it on, and crank it up from zero to 20 and then turn off, it would be for all modes. But I discovered that in all the other modes it is still zero, until I do the trick for each mode (standard, day, night, etc.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman  /t/1515070/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-bugs-thread#post_24301562


I do not know if this is a bug, or just normal. Eco mode is set separately for each mode. I thought when I did the eco mode trick in movie mode, where you turn it on, and crank it up from zero to 20 and then turn off, it would be for all modes. But I discovered that in all the other modes it is still zero, until I do the trick for each mode (standard, day, night, etc.)

Am I not wrong then to say that this bug is fixed? If I understand your post, your FW is at least 1116 and you still see this happening?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein  /t/1515070/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-bugs-thread#post_24300161


I am in the middle of watching From Here To Eternity on Blu-ray.


My real, first full-length movie watch since calibration.


Noticing slight stuttering from time to time in picture.


Anything in the settings that may need to be turned on to prevent it?

Don't be too quick to condemn the F8500. 99% of the time such problems are in the media being sent to it. If you see it on other BD discs, expecially more recent ones, THEN is when to look for a solution in the F8500. Remember the old computer addage GIGO.
 
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