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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193467


If what you guys are saying is true -- Contrast at 70 to 75 eliminates the fluctuations -- the 10 point grayscale controls will be difficult to use for a true calibration. Historically for Samsungs, at that Contrast setting only about 6 to 8 of the 10 point adjustments are useable. Also, at those Contrast settings, it becomes difficult to get the colors calibrated properly.


That being said, off hand I can't see any reason why the lower Contrast would interact with the screen driving logic to eliminate the fluctuations.


Larry

Personally i would prefer the rare brightness fluctuations over the reduced contrast any day.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193467


If what you guys are saying is true -- Contrast at 70 to 75 eliminates the fluctuations -- the 10 point grayscale controls will be difficult to use for a true calibration. Historically for Samsungs, at that Contrast setting only about 6 to 8 of the 10 point adjustments are useable. Also, at those Contrast settings, it becomes difficult to get the colors calibrated properly.


That being said, off hand I can't see any reason why the lower Contrast would interact with the screen driving logic to eliminate the fluctuations.


Larry

Im wondering if they are "gone" or that they just arent as visable with that contrast.......


This would go against Kevins calibrated set that was at a higher Contrast setting and while exhibiting the fluctuation, it wasnt as bad as what people were seeing here.....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193467


If what you guys are saying is true -- Contrast at 70 to 75 eliminates the fluctuations -- the 10 point grayscale controls will be difficult to use for a true calibration. Historically for Samsungs, at that Contrast setting only about 6 to 8 of the 10 point adjustments are useable. Also, at those Contrast settings, it becomes difficult to get the colors calibrated properly.


That being said, off hand I can't see any reason why the lower Contrast would interact with the screen driving logic to eliminate the fluctuations.


Larry

I don't know either but I can tell you without a doubt it is gone. But now the screen is def darker.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2160#post_23190933


Thanks. I wanted so much to like this TV. I was making excuses saying well maybe I'm too close so I stood in my kitchen which in probably another 5-6 ft in viewing distance and it was still there. Maybe it is because I have never owned a plasma before so I am noticing it more? I'm not sure....


Just saw where the EU vt60 was reviewed and they said there was flicker at mid to high brightness. Dagger....

FWIW the flicker on the EU model was due to its handling of 50hz sources, something we don't have to worry about in the US and other parts of the world (assuming you're from the US).
 

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It seems that most are missing my point. Kevin's settings for Movie gave a max output of 51 ftL. That is too bright for some of us. However, his Contrast setting of 95 allows for full use of the 10 point grayscale/gamma controls and the custom color controls. Lowering the Contrast down to the low to mid 70s reduces the effectiveness of the 10 point and color adjustments.


Just a guess but from experience with Samsungs: If settings of cell = 16 and contrast = 95 yields 51 ftL then cell = 20 and contrast = 75 will give at least 35 ftL. That is not dim by any means.



Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193540


It seems that most are missing my point. Kevin's settings for Movie gave a max output of 51 ftL. That is too bright for some of us. However, his Contrast setting of 95 allows for full use of the 10 point grayscale/gamma controls and the custom color controls. Lowering the Contrast down to the low to mid 70s reduces the effectiveness of the 10 point and color adjustments.


Just a guess but from experience with Samsungs: If settings of cell = 16 and contrast = 95 yields 51 ftL then cell = 20 and contrast = 75 will give at least 35 ftL. That is not dim by any means.



Larry

I tried cell 16 and contrast 95 last night. Didn't work.......it has something to do with the contrast.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193550


I tried cell 16 and contrast 95 last night. Didn't work.......it has something to do with the contrast.

I'm not now talking about contrast and its interaction with the fluctuations. I'm taking about calibration, Contrast control setting, and peak output.


Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193424


BTW this thread moves at the spead of light, you may be responding to something before you know it, youre a page behind....
I was thinking the same thing, been some time since a Samsung thread has moved this fast that I can remember........
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193540


It seems that most are missing my point. Kevin's settings for Movie gave a max output of 51 ftL. That is too bright for some of us. However, his Contrast setting of 95 allows for full use of the 10 point grayscale/gamma controls and the custom color controls. Lowering the Contrast down to the low to mid 70s reduces the effectiveness of the 10 point and color adjustments.


Just a guess but from experience with Samsungs: If settings of cell = 16 and contrast = 95 yields 51 ftL then cell = 20 and contrast = 75 will give at least 35 ftL. That is not dim by any means.



Larry

Larry, I get what you are saying
I had to job my memory of your early posts regarding the ftL however



Since that is around what you calibrate for, it may not be much of an issue for you
(at least from the sound of it right now)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193575


I was thinking the same thing, been some time since a Samsung thread has moved this fast that I can remember........

I think that only goes to show that this set was highly anticipated and maybe a larger number of people were waiting to upgrade



I know the ST60 thread moves, but seems to have died down some now that they got the lag talk in a seperate thread......



Hopefully we can figure out what is triggering the anomoly of fluctuations and get it "fixed" in some sort of way (outside of turning contrrast down to 75 or below)......It may defeat the purpose of buying such a set for some if we have to do this
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2190#post_23192872


I'm watching "The Masters" and the big white sand traps make it happen as well.


I love the picture quality....but, I only have about a week left on my return window, so I have to make a tough decision soon.


I really don't want to invest in professional calibration, since every bone in my body is telling me it's not going to solve the issue.

What size is your F8500??

I'm betting 64"... again like the hockey I have none of that on my 51", I'm a big golf fan/player and watched all the coverage of The Masters today(except when I watched 20 minutes of the NCAA College hockey) and never saw one fluctuation or pop in either, sand traps stayed white and sand shots looked incredibly sharp.. I have approx.120 hours on my 51F8500 and have viewed both events with my personal Standard settings, Cal Day & Cal Night (Kevin's settings) and SJA05's Movie settings and no pops or fluctuations using any of them, my personal settings are a bit brighter then most I've seen but I am coming from a LCD so my eye is a bit tainted still
 

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I can also confirm that a contrast setting of 75 does eliminate all the brightness increases on my set. I don't like the picture with those settings so I would definitely need a professional to calibrate at contrast setting of 75 and see what could be done.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193576


Lary, I get what you are saying
I had to job my memory of your early posts regarding the ftL however



Since that is around what you calibrate for, it may not be much of an issue for you
(at least from the sound of it right now)

Well actually it is a problem since I will lose some of my 10 point adjustments and run out of custom color control range. Not saying that the some of the problem can't be overcome by determining where the 10 point controls actually work but it adds a layer of difficulty and a bit of additional time to perform to a true calibration.



Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193604


Well actually it is a problem since I will lose some of my 10 point adjustments and run out of custom color control range. Not saying that the some of the problem can't be overcome by determining where the 10 point controls actually work but it adds a layer of difficulty and a bit of additional time to perform to a true calibration.



Larry

I forgot to add that part (oops
)


I think Chad or Kevin mentioned trouble with the 10pt controls or maybe that was a different set.....


EDIT:


It was Kevin:
Quote:
Grayscale tracking pre-calibration on the PN60F8500 was excellent in the Movie Mode and Warm 2 color temperature setting. Oddly enough, with only a minor tweak to the 2pt white balance controls, I found the rest of the grayscale shifted significantly, necessitating a full 10pt white balance adjustment. There was also some significant interaction between the 2pt and 10pt controls, which made it necessary to go back and forth between the two features a number of times to get the best results.


Cons:The 2pt and 10pt white balance and Custom Color Space CMS (Color Management System) calibration features seem to interact quite a bit making professional calibration time consuming.
 

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Wanted to let you folks know that I also phoned Samsung Support by telephone today to let them know of the brightness fluctuations/pops. The support tech stated that "they are aware of this" and that an engineer would be calling me in two to three days. I would think thats some progress. I encourage all who have this issue to phone samsung to make them aware of this since we could diagnose this all day or make the people who can actually do something aware of this.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193616


I forgot to add that part (oops
)


I think Chad or Kevin mentioned trouble with the 10pt controls or maybe that was a different set.....

I know at least Chad did and he developed a calibration display chart that makes it somewhat easier to determine where each 10 point control actually works in terms of input stimulus.



EDIT: The problem that Kevin mentioned is different.



(No 'oops' needed.
I'm really working hard not to make this too technical and too related to calibration with meters. Maybe I'll just wait until someone with equipment gets around to playing with the TV.)


Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193402


Now that would be great, but I seem to recall those who did the upgrade still were seeing the popping. But wow, what a nice thought...and logical.

Has anyone tried doing a FACTORY RESET after doing the firmware update? After updating my D8000 firmware I noticed that the picture hadn't improved like they said it would until I went into the service menu and did the factory reset. worked like a charm afterwards.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2250#post_23193394


Zoyd, but that's just it. The curve is implying precisely the opposite of what we're seeing. The curve implies a ragged step down in brightness and a relatively smooth ramp up in brightness. As Dan and I have suggested, we don't see any particular issue with dimming, but it's a 2-step 'jagged' response up in brightness. IOW, where you'd think you'd see a reduction in brightness, you actually get an increase. Very different behavior IMO than a typical ABL. In fact, I just can't recall seeing a dimming of the picture regardless of content, just a brightening that constitutes the 'popping' on the 8500.

I think you're misreading the graph. It shows that as the scene goes from bright to dark, the output jumps up twice (two little spikes). That's exactly the brightness pops we are seeing. As scene goes from dark to bright, it's not a smooth curve like the Panny, but it's still a continuous increase with little plateaus in between; there's no pronounced downward dips. That's why we don't see "dimming". So the graph does correspond with what we see.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193644


I know at least Chad did and he developed a calibration display chart that makes it somewhat easier to determine where each 10 point control actually works in terms of input stimulus.



EDIT: The problem that Kevin mentioned is different.



(No 'oops' needed.
I'm really working hard not to make this too technical and too related to calibration with meters. Maybe I'll just wait until someone with equipment gets around to playing with the TV.)


Larry


Ahh ok thank you



I think its nice to have some technical talk in here
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan0780  /t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2280#post_23193602


I can also confirm that a contrast setting of 75 does eliminate all the brightness increases on my set. I don't like the picture with those settings so I would definitely need a professional to calibrate at contrast setting of 75 and see what could be done.

what is your cell light, Dan?


how do the whites look at 75? the f8500 is bright enough that maybe it's ok at 75. kinda defeats the whole "lcd-like brightness and pop" selling point though.
 
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