AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Didn't see a thread yet on this line so kicking one off.


Bought a 40ES6003 yesterday at Magnolia for $600. Considered the EH5000 and EH6000 line. Didn't really need the smart features or 3D (i.e. the ES6100 or ES6500). Strong PQ at a reasonable cost was the primamry criteria. Wanted at least 120Hz (for better 24p). Was told the ES panel was a step up from EH. My box was marked TS01.


Set the unit up today. Started with movie mode and did a quick calibration using Spears and Munsil. The picture looked very good with quite a bit of detail. A really pleasure to watch. But on dark scenes, the clouding and flashligthting were the worst I'd ever seen. Affected the corners and about a half a dozen random palm sized areas. See picture below.


Made a number of adjustments to see of I could lessen the effect (e.g., lower BL, ...), but no significant change. Applied the ES6100 calibration settings http://reviews.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/samsung-lcd-tv/samsung-es6100-picturesettings.html - but the clouds and flashlighting remain. Will see if the condition gets any better over the next few days - if not back to the store.


If the next unit has the same clouding issues, I'll need a fall back. It sounds like the ES6100 and ES6500 have similar issues (they are also edge lit). Could folks please confirm the 40EH6000 at 120Hz with direct lighting is the best fallback in this class? My target size is 40" (If I could go larger I woud have gone for plasma).


Couple of other notes:


+ Being an ES6XXX model, I expected this unit to have 10 point calibration settings but I could not find it in the menu. If there is a trick to getting them exposed, please share. If Samsung cut the feature, for me it's a big disappointment since I have the equipment to measure and set these values (i.e. I paid a premium thinking the feature was supported).


+ The viewing angle is VERY limited. For my application (a bedroom) not a real issue but I would not recommend it for a family room with multiple seating positions.


+ This unit only has two HDMI inputs, ported on the side. That's what I needed for now but it's always nice to have one more.


+ Sound quality is OK - maybe a little better than what is typical. I was planning to use the analog audio out to drive some powered speakers but I heard a rumor the ouput is fixed (i.e. line level full volume) versus variable (i.e. attenuated by the current setting of the TV volume control). So I'll need to punt that plan since it's not practical to manually adjust the volume at the speakers.


+ The thin profile of the unit is really very appealing. Under 2". Looks great mounted. Just sort of floating there. BTW, the documentation is incorrect. The bolt size is actually M8 not M6 -- which is a good thing since it's a more beefy bolt.


Overall I really like the unit but the flashlighting and clouds are very hard to overlook - especially for those that care about PQ in darker scenes.


Thanks!


Update 11/27: Added picture of the clouds and flashlighting below. The clouds float over near black objects like the rectangle below. Very distracting. Are they any better on EH5000 or EH6000 models?





UPDATE 12/1: Returned the unit to Magnolia. They said the ES6003 series was created especially for the holiday session to hit a middle ground price point and they were not surprised it had these types of edge light issues. The ES7XXX which is back lit was quite a step up in price (more than double) so not really an option. They suggested trying the ES6500 since it has a different panel (240Hz versus 120Hz), but the ES6500 is now priced at $900 (versus $800 during black Friday). That’s a $300 cost swing (50%) just to see if there is a difference. I opted for trying another ES6003. I'm relieved to report that the clouding / flash lighting while present was not as bad and mostly towards the corners (will add a picture later)


CALIBRATION: I have not seen any official calibration numbers for the ES6003 line so thought I’d give it a go and try to set the white balance. Not being an expert I reread Greyscale for Dummies, a truly excellent tutorial that can be found here

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457


I also downloaded the latest version of HCFR (3.0.4) from sourceforge:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/Windows/3.0.4.0/HCFRSetup.exe/download


Note if you have a Spyder3 colorimeter like I do, the latest driver from Datacolor (or Windows Update) will not work (you will get an “Argyll” driver error when starting HFCR). You have to use the one in the System/Program Files (x86)/HCFR Calibration/Driver directory. To do so is a little tricky since Windows wants to use the latest driver. Here’s the way I got it work: Plug in the Spyder3, go to device manger, under USB controllers find the Spyder3, uninstall the driver, unplug the Spyder3, plug it back in, when Windows starts to look for the driver online, hit “click here for status” (be quick), hit “close” which will stop the search, find the device in “other devices” (it will have a question mark), select it, hit “update driver software”, hit “browse” and point Windows to the directory above. The software does not appear signed so you will get a “Can’t verify publisher” warning. I’ve used the software for years so I’m comfortable hitting “Install anyway”. If successful, you should see a Spyder3 (Argyll) device at the top of the device list.


I visually adjusted brightness and contrast using Spears and Munsil, then turned down the Back Light to minimize clouding. For the greyscale calibration I started off with these settings:


Picture Mode = Movie

Back Light = 12 (lower to reduce clouding)

Contrast = 92

Brightness = 45

Sharp = 20

Color = 50

Tint G50/R50


Color space Auto

White Balance:

RGB offset = 25, 25, 25

RGB gain = 25, 25, 25

Gamma = 0

Dynamic Contrast = Off

Black Tone = Off

Flesh Tone = 0

Motion = Off


Color Tone = Warm 2

Size = Screen Fit

Digital Noise Filter = Auto

HDMI Black Level = Normal

Film Mode = OFF

Auto Motion Plus = Custom:

Blur Reduction 10

Judder Reduction 0

LED Motion = Off


Using the 10-100% IRE greyscale images from AVS HD 709 disk, I took this baseline reading:






As you can see the graph is pretty flat from 60%-100% grey and spot on 6500K. But the darker greys are increasing off in blue with color temps approaching 8500K. With the Spyder3, any readings lower than 20% grey are suspect, but you get the general trend line.


To flatten the low end in blue without the 10pt adjustment found in the ES6100 and ES6500 took multiple hours going back and forth with the RGB offset and gain (if your calibrating having the 10pt is a big win). Here’s where I netted out:






I was able to achieve responsibly flat response from 20%-100% with only the darkest grey off in blue. The delta E was under 3 except for 40% which crested at 4. Here are the settings for white balance I used:


RGB offset = 33, 29, 10

RGB gain = 20, 25, 32


SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: Wow, the set is really stunning! I tried some movies and the areas that really stood out were great flesh tones and really nice shadow detail. The clouds are no longer that distracting and I’m impressed what this set can produce – especially at the $600 price point.


If there are any pros out there that have taken a crack at calibration and have better numbers to share please do. For now I’m very happy with the results and will simply focus on enjoying the set!


UPDATE 12/4: Had a chance to evaluate the above settings for a couple of days. While accurate in grey, overall the image is not very bright, especially when there is other light in the room. Yes, setting the BL to 12 was by design to avoid seeing clouds, but for my tastes the picture just wasn't bright enough.


I reset everything to defaults and started over. At 100% IRE, I was measuring 46 ftL. Per the calibration guidance a good target is 30-40. More than that and the image could be fatiguing. A BL of 17 resulted in 40 ftL. I checked for clouds and what I saw was very minor. I recalibrated the white balance and was able to hit 30-100% IRE with a delta E of less than 3:






Not bad considering how tricky it is to adjust using just two controls (RGB offset and gain). I picked values that pushed errors to the darker less visible region (20% IRE and below).


Here are the new settings:


Picture Mode = Movie

Back Light = 17

Contrast = 95

Brightness = 45

Sharp = 20

Color = 50

Tint G50/R50


Color space Auto

White Balance:

RGB Offset = 34, 27, 6

RGB Gain = 16, 23, 28

Gamma = 0

Dynamic Contrast = Off

Black Tone = Off

Flesh Tone = 0

Motion = Off


SUBJECTIVE RESULTS: The picture is now much more punchy and I can even have on a light or two!! And the grey scale looks awesome with accurate color (or lack thereof) and alot of nice contrast.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,307 Posts
Reducing the backlight setting is the most effective way to reduce flashlighting. If you've already tried this and still have too much return it. The EH series is a good backup, I'd go straight to one of those rather than try another ES6003.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
I've got an EH5000 and am having some major trouble with shadowing in the corners. It seems that, at least with the Samsung "budget" models, if you get an edge-lit then you are probably going to have flashlighting problems, and if you get a backlit then you are probably going to get shadowing issues. I'm actually considering switching brands altogether to see if I can find something better.


Got the EH5000 because it was a screaming deal, but I'd pay more to not have shadowing/flashlighting issues that drive me nuts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Would these issues change with a different screen size ( I am looking at the 46" version)? Or is it more likely to be worse because of the larger screen?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurbs16  /t/1441404/official-samsung-unxxes6003-owners-thread#post_22627250


Would these issues change with a different screen size ( I am looking at the 46" version)? Or is it more likely to be worse because of the larger screen?

I think larger screen sizes tend to exacerbate the issues. I was originally looking at 42" screens and did not not have near the problem with shadowing that I've experienced with the 46" screens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When I calibrated I reduced the backlight (from 20 to 15) but the flashlighting is still pretty bad.


What is the word on the EH6000? What are its strengths and weaknesses (compared to the ES6003)?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by nojaggies  /t/1441404/official-samsung-unxxes6003-owners-thread#post_22629686


When I calibrated I reduced the backlight (from 20 to 15) but the flashlighting is still pretty bad.

What is the word on the EH6000? What are its strengths and weaknesses (compared to the ES6003)?

People seem to generally report better uniformity with the EH6000. However, with the backlit models you can get shadowing problems instead of flashlighting problems. I'd probably consider which one of those issues you are more likely to be able to live with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwener  /t/1441404/official-samsung-unxxes6003-owners-thread#post_22631618


People seem to generally report better uniformity with the EH6000. However, with the backlit models you can get shadowing problems instead of flashlighting problems. I'd probably consider which one of those issues you are more likely to be able to live with.

Added a picture of the clouds and flashlighting above in the original post. Are the artifacts you report similar? They both sound pretty distracting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I also just purchased the 40ES6003 and so far I love the picture on this TV.


I'm not familiar with a lot of terms being used here: flashlighting is something I am not familiar with but I don't see what is being reported in the OP. How can I test my TV to see if it exhibits the same issue?


I'm more interested to see how people are calibrating these tvs as in which settings they are using. I am finding that "Dynamic" mode seems a bit TOO bright so I switched over to standard and I like that one. The "movie" mode looks way too dull and has very poor color IMO.


One thing I'd like to change a bit is the skin tone but I'm not having a lot of luck with the RG or color settings. Anyone have any suggestions?


Just for reference I have a TS01 panel manufactured in October 2012.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I upgraded from an older 40"1080p 2007 year model Samsung to the UN55ES6003. Maybe i'm not nearly as picky as your guys, or i'm used to older technology/quality, but I love this TV. Got it from Target on Black Friday for a hair under $1000. I too was looking for a TV without all the 3D and "Smart TV" hype, just thin and good picture quality. This set IMO has met both of these very well. Like the OP mentioned, the TV being 1.8" thick makes it looks very nice hung on the wall with a low-profile mount. I actually had to add a couple washers between the mount and the tv to keep the power cord from hitting the wall. I can't comment on the speakers since I always use a receiver. I too am using the calibration settings from the OP's link, with the exception of no 10-point white balance (since it doesn't exist on this model) and clear motion set to clear. I did manage to find a black picture to freeze the tv on and i don't have anything close to the OP's flashlighting/clouding. It's a touch lighter in the corners, which seems to be normal with edge lit tv's, but nothing nearly as bad as the picture posted. Viewing angle also seems to be good, but once again, i'm used to a tv from 2007. Anyway, overall i'm very happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Probably a YMMV situation like the 6100. Going through that thread looks like the sets were hit or miss with a couple people even getting repairs done through Samsung. Depends if you're willing to risk possible time inconvenience I suppose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Embalmer  /t/1441404/official-samsung-unxxes6003-owners-thread#post_22638289


I also just purchased the 40ES6003 and so far I love the picture on this TV.

I'm not familiar with a lot of terms being used here: flashlighting is something I am not familiar with but I don't see what is being reported in the OP. How can I test my TV to see if it exhibits the same issue?

I'm more interested to see how people are calibrating these tvs as in which settings they are using. I am finding that "Dynamic" mode seems a bit TOO bright so I switched over to standard and I like that one. The "movie" mode looks way too dull and has very poor color IMO.

One thing I'd like to change a bit is the skin tone but I'm not having a lot of luck with the RG or color settings. Anyone have any suggestions?

Just for reference I have a TS01 panel manufactured in October 2012.

Just posted some calibration settings at the start of thread. Optimized for movies. In particualr thought it did a really nice job with flesh tones. Recommend movie mode if you are trying to get more accurate color reproduction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurbs16  /t/1441404/official-samsung-unxxes6003-owners-thread#post_22635960


That looks terrible. Are you going to return it for another 6003?

Is this typical of all low$ LEDs?

I ended up getting a replacement unit it and fortunately it does not have such a severe clouding problem. The clouds are still there but less noticable and not across the middle of the screen. There is some minor flashlighting in the corners. Yes, this is typical of edge let LED displays. Additional details in the thread at the top.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Have a new 40ES6003 with less clouding and posted some new CALIBRATION settings in the thread starter. If there are any pros out there with better numbers / results please share. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Hi all.


Anyone else had an issue with this model not remembering the settings? i'm trying to put in all the cal settings in the OP but then some of them just reset, like brightness/contrast. haven't figured out what's triggering it yet.


On a separate note, this TV has no headphone jack out, correct? so if I connect external speakers to the audio out port, they can't be controlled with a TV remote, no?


Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Haven't had any issues with settings getting reset. Just be aware there are different sets of settings for the inputs and the different picture modes. So if you change a setting and then switch inputs, do no expect it to be there. As for the audio out, there is both analog and digital. But as stated in the OP, I believe these are fixed are and not controlled with the tv volume control.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top