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RTINGS clealry puts pixel response on top over true handling. It's fine. They are transparent and state that - it's good science

For someone wanting to play 60fps gaming and way more 120hz (which the 75" z9 is incredible at!!!) Pixel response wins over handling .

At normal content it's kinda irrrlevant until it gets as bad as a 940d


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even the "bad" 65 has good pixel response except for black to white transitions. I have put in a ton of hours gaming on my z9 and I'm extremely picky so if anything was wrong this thing would have gone back very quickly.
 

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even the "bad" 65 has good pixel response except for black to white transitions. I have put in a ton of hours gaming on my z9 and I'm extremely picky so if anything was wrong this thing would have gone back very quickly.


Exactly. Even if you are playing Verizon Pong video game.until you get past 30fps you won't see it. Try the blue busters test st 30 and it's perfeft A where most games are


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Discussion Starter #8,123
It appears that there is little or no QC checking with these TVs now?
Do you seriously believe this? You need to understand the consequences of so many unwilling to pay for quality these days. You can't have good quality and cheap at the same time. Even very high end and expensive equipment isn't going to be perfect. But to draw the conclusion that Sony has terrible QC isn't really tenable.
 

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Same here, no Bands. Titan319: I can't help but with your profile pic, everything you write comes out in my head as very loud, as in yelling. so when you type stuff like: I'm very happy with my TV.. it comes out in a thunderous tone. lol
That is right it is a tale of victory (300) lol
 
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A Z9d owner at bluray.com says his newest firmware added HLG HDR. He says it's listed in the firmware details on the TV.

There's a few HLG videos on YouTube. But if I recall the sony TVs haven't been updated for YouTube hdr yet.

Edit, apparently the firmware memo says that HLG is coming this month.
 

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A Z9d owner at bluray.com says his newest firmware added HLG HDR. He says it's listed in the firmware details on the TV.

There's a few HLG videos on YouTube. But if I recall the sony TVs haven't been updated for YouTube hdr yet.
Just checked mine and there is no update available. The "App" they installed does list some of the improvements (already listed in this thread) coming 05/2017.

Haven't looked on the Sony site to see if the update can be downloaded.
 

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Apparently you have never experienced the LG OLEDs and all the problems/weaknesses they have, or the best plasmas, and all the problems they had, and all the problems/weaknesses on most every other LCD out there.

Owner satisfaction seems to be very high with the Z9D, even among picky videophiles. Hardly anyone thinks the Z9D is a "disaster". I love the motion on my Z9D, except for the smearing or trailing that can be seen on occasion. It is a shortcoming that could use some improvement, and I have no problem acknowledging that. That is why I might consider also getting a Sony OLED. But in no way does it merit a paltry score of 6.4 from Rtings, which is completely absurd.

I worded that incorrectly i meant to say according to RTINGS the Z9D is a disaster with motion. However i did do a comparison between the LG C6 and the Z9D when the Sony first came out and absolutely agree the motion on the Z9D looked 10 times better it was not even close. In fact the C6"s motion looked looked really really bad and the black crush i tried to correct but that washed out the black levels when i tried. I have spent many hours evaluating sets before i bought my Z9D based on my own observations. Like i said previously i was pissed and was venting that RTINGS gave the Z9D such a bad score. With that said i absolutely agree with your statement about the motion and HDR scores between the sets and not mention the black crush from the C6 that RTINGS failed to mention. So for the record i don't notice the motion issue's on real content and still love my set and would not switch to the A1E as i game quite a bit and can't risk burn in. So you can add me to the list of Owner Satisfaction for the Z9D as it fits all my needs.
 

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A Z9d owner at bluray.com says his newest firmware added HLG HDR. He says it's listed in the firmware details on the TV.

There's a few HLG videos on YouTube. But if I recall the sony TVs haven't been updated for YouTube hdr yet.

Edit, apparently the firmware memo says that HLG is coming this month.
Actually it says coming "after" 5/2017 so suspect it is coming right before the release of those first DV discs and although they don't mention it, I would not be surprised if it unlocks DV processing as well.
 

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Actually it says coming "after" 5/2017 so suspect it is coming right before the release of those first DV discs and although they don't mention it, I would not be surprised if it unlocks DV processing as well.
same, DV is part of android 7.0 so it wouldn't surprise me either.

Probably just not listing it since the firmware details are rather generic to all units receiving the update.
 

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same, DV is part of android 7.0 so it wouldn't surprise me either.

Probably just not listing it since the firmware details are rather generic to all units receiving the update.
Good point as I'm sure it is also applying to the lower "E" displays that won't have DV.
 

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Good point as I'm sure it is also applying to the lower "E" displays that won't have DV.
shoot i can't check now but yeah the notes say the firmware update applies to all fall D 2016 displays and all Spring E models (including 900E that won't get DV support).

I think it's because they all use the same android chipset, which is independent of the X1 extreme for dolby vision.
 

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@OLED4UNME
Thank you for the feedback, you bring up some very valid points.
We agree that the motion score of the Z9D should be a bit higher, and this discrepancy is caused by a couple of issues which we hope to fix with the next scoring update.
First is that the response time to complete a transition doesn't give all of the information. As an example, if we compare the 0-100% response time of the Z9D to the E Series 4k 2016 then the Z9D will look better despite taking longer to reach the threshold (and currently getting a lower score). This is because the Z9D actually tracks closer to the target for longer.
To improve this we are planning to provide more in depth analysis of the response time (eg. intermediate measurements in the 0% to 100% transition).

The other issue is that for low frame rate content the fast response time of OLED TVs is actually a negative, as it doesn't smooth between frames and appears jarring. The ideal TV should be able to adjust the response (slower for movies and fast for 60Hz content). This is another issue we aim to fix with the next scoring update.

For our testing philosophy, we evaluate each aspect of motion performance individually in a controlled and objective way. Motion processing is left off for the response time measurement (these are independent factors), BFI is enabled for the flicker test (another way to improve motion) and interpolation is also tested separately.

It is very difficult to evaluate upscaling objectively (see this post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2774521-75-4k-tv-advice-needed.html#post51349065) as some people prefer a softer image, some like added sharpness, etc. As a result we score all TVs almost the same as we prefer not to introduce subjectivity or opinions. This is an area we would like to improve on, but it is extremely difficult.
 

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@OLED4UNME
Thank you for the feedback, you bring up some very valid points.
We agree that the motion score of the Z9D should be a bit higher, and this discrepancy is caused by a couple of issues which we hope to fix with the next scoring update.
First is that the response time to complete a transition doesn't give all of the information. As an example, if we compare the 0-100% response time of the Z9D to the E Series 4k 2016 then the Z9D will look better despite taking longer to reach the threshold (and currently getting a lower score). This is because the Z9D actually tracks closer to the target for longer.
To improve this we are planning to provide more in depth analysis of the response time (eg. intermediate measurements in the 0% to 100% transition).

The other issue is that for low frame rate content the fast response time of OLED TVs is actually a negative, as it doesn't smooth between frames and appears jarring. The ideal TV should be able to adjust the response (slower for movies and fast for 60Hz content). This is another issue we aim to fix with the next scoring update.

For our testing philosophy, we evaluate each aspect of motion performance individually in a controlled and objective way. Motion processing is left off for the response time measurement (these are independent factors), BFI is enabled for the flicker test (another way to improve motion) and interpolation is also tested separately.

It is very difficult to evaluate upscaling objectively (see this post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/2774521-75-4k-tv-advice-needed.html#post51349065) as some people prefer a softer image, some like added sharpness, etc. As a result we score all TVs almost the same as we prefer not to introduce subjectivity or opinions. This is an area we would like to improve on, but it is extremely difficult.
Wow, thank you for the informative post, a much better response than I expected and also much better than the tone of his message warranted.

I think you really nailed it on the bolded comment. Looking at the scoring and tests as they are today the "movies" score for example does a great job of telling me that if I pause the movie it is going to look amazing, but it doesnt really tell me that when I hit play that the moving picture will look close to what I see in the theatre if that makes sense.

While I have you, I posted in the A1E thread about HDR calibration reporting on rtings. I think that posting an EOTF response graph would be a great benefit to your readers and would also nicely complement the peak brightness and color volume tests that you currently disclose. One important area of HDR performance is clipping and tone mapping behavior and I don't believe any reviewers are currently giving this aspect of picture quality the attention that it deserves.

Thanks again for this explanation.
 

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Yes Daniel thanks so much. Love your site and the transparency of your research. I wish all my grad students wrote that well


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While I have you, I posted in the A1E thread about HDR calibration reporting on rtings. I think that posting an EOTF response graph would be a great benefit to your readers and would also nicely complement the peak brightness and color volume tests that you currently disclose. One important area of HDR performance is clipping and tone mapping behavior and I don't believe any reviewers are currently giving this aspect of picture quality the attention that it deserves.
seconded. While not quite as important for top end LCDs that go well beyond 1,000 nit, this graph would be invaluable for TVs that don't hit peaks of 1,000 nit - especially the OLEDs - to see how they map HDR content above their luminance capabilities.

The EOTF response graph has been one of the best features of recent HDTVtest reviews. Very interesting to compare Z9D to 930E EOTF graphs from there.
 

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While I have you, I posted in the A1E thread about HDR calibration reporting on rtings. I think that posting an EOTF response graph would be a great benefit to your readers and would also nicely complement the peak brightness and color volume tests that you currently disclose. One important area of HDR performance is clipping and tone mapping behavior and I don't believe any reviewers are currently giving this aspect of picture quality the attention that it deserves.
While we agree that the EOTF response is informative, it is very difficult to assess the performance of it because there is no standard. Reference monitors (such as the Sony BVMX300) perform no compression and instead clip outside of 1000 nits, but this isn't necessarily what TVs such as the Z9D should do. Just as with the gamma of SDR content, people prefer different EOTF tracking (eg. for different ambient light).

We could include plots of the EOTF with various picture modes on future reviews and leave it unscored (purely informational).

Here is my motion result to compare.to RTINGS.
Thank you @sjchmura and @dominica for your results. In conclusion the 75" model does seem to have a faster response time without the motion blur present on the 65". The review has been updated to take note of these differences (it may take an hour for the changes to appear).
 

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While we agree that the EOTF response is informative, it is very difficult to assess the performance of it because there is no standard. Reference monitors (such as the Sony BVMX300) perform no compression and instead clip outside of 1000 nits, but this isn't necessarily what TVs such as the Z9D should do. Just as with the gamma of SDR content, people prefer different EOTF tracking (eg. for different ambient light).



We could include plots of the EOTF with various picture modes on future reviews and leave it unscored (purely informational).





Thank you @sjchmura and @dominica for your results. In conclusion the 75" model does seem to have a faster response time without the motion blur present on the 65". The review has been updated to take note of these differences (it may take an hour for the changes to appear).


So in terms of "clear" worst case fps for gaming, how do we translate those numbers into fps.

Meaning , at 29ms response would yield a ~30fps worst case (black and white game) with no visible smearing?


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It appears that there is little or no QC checking with these TVs now?
Do you seriously believe this? You need to understand the consequences of so many unwilling to pay for quality these days. You can't have good quality and cheap at the same time. Even very high end and expensive equipment isn't going to be perfect. But to draw the conclusion that Sony has terrible QC isn't really tenable.
I never said I "believed" that--- I was merely questioning Sony’s current QC practices in response to someone else's post and that is why my sentence ends with a question mark. I don’t have a clue as to Sony's actual testing of a product when it comes off of the assembly line nor I doubt that you do either. However, since my first Sony purchase in the early ‘60s and subsequent Sony purchases over the years, it is my opinion based on my experience, that Sony's QC is not what it used to be since the days of the Triniton.

Enough said. Now back on topic.
 
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While we agree that the EOTF response is informative, it is very difficult to assess the performance of it because there is no standard. Reference monitors (such as the Sony BVMX300) perform no compression and instead clip outside of 1000 nits, but this isn't necessarily what TVs such as the Z9D should do. Just as with the gamma of SDR content, people prefer different EOTF tracking (eg. for different ambient light).

We could include plots of the EOTF with various picture modes on future reviews and leave it unscored (purely informational).
I agree HDR is a bit like the wild west right now, unscored reporting would be a great first step thanks.
 

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It appears that there is little or no QC checking with these TVs now?
It is like car recalls, the manufacturer finds they have a problem, they calculate there losses to recall VS how much they will be sued for / how many people will loose there lives. Which ever is less is the answer "if I am not mistaken"...... Same with defective sets and "known" glitches, there is no perfect TV and we are all just small little voices compared to the 100% of consumers. Can the problem even be fixed is the first question, if so how much will it cost.

---XBR-75Z9D took a price hit........
 
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