[john barlow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by addict gamer /forum/post/11961640


Banding seen could be crap signal maybe? It is possible to get the 52 for the low 3000 mark if you a connection or good sale>

There you go. I think you just hit the nail on the head. Crap in, crap out. The XBR4 is a high end display. It is capable of reproducing a signal with an incredible amount of clarity. It is very unforgiving of a bad signal. There are all sorts of things that can happen to a signal before it reaches your brain. Some of it is induced by the broadcast provider. Some of it could be coming from dirty electricity from your energy provider. It to could be interference from other nearby components. Make sure your electronic gear is sufficiently isolated. A good high quality power conditioner shoud be used in youir home theater. At the very least a modest one for the XBR preferrably one with a battery backup ( for 46" and under). You don't want those cooling fans to go out in a power outage. This could cause internal damage if the components that are cooled by the fans can't be cooled.

 

[fafner]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 /forum/post/11959627


The Sony is an excellent TV as mentioned above. The blacks are excellent with no black crush. Color is almost perfect and contrast is really good with no signs of clipping at its max setting. On my 52XBR4 I have no clouding or banding of any kind. Sony really did a good job with set, the only other display that I saw that bested the Sony was the Pioneer 5010, even then, not by much. I like Sony's color reproduction a little better than the Pioneer though the Pioneers blacks were in a class by itself.

Could anyone else comment on the Pioneer 5010 compared to the XBR4/5 please? I am still trying to decide what new set to purchase.


Thanks.


fafner

 

[tagheuer01]



Quote:
Originally Posted by john barlow /forum/post/11955386


I find it hard to believe that you are able to buy a current model KDL52XBR4 for under 3k. If I were you I would double check the order.

Not hard really, do stuff like this all the time. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. Frys.com usually sells you the new model at the old model price. So I ordered a 52XBR2 right when they were closing out, for 2700. Well they never got the last batch in, so they agreed to upgrade me for the same price. (Others on this forum were also on the backorder list, and got the 52XBR4 for the price of the XBR2)...there were at LEAST 15 people or so who scored this deal, and even some members here.


Frys.com is great, they really take excellent care of people and make things right, when they couldn't get me the XBR2, they gave me the XBR4 for the same price....They have my business for life.


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[b3b0p]



Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoJoe /forum/post/11962920


When the TV receives a video signal from a film source, the deinterlaced 60 Hz video signal with a 24 fps film source has a 3:2 pull down pattern. The frame rate is then doubled to 120 Hz with a 6:4 pattern. One of the frames in the 6 frame sequence is deleted and one of the frames in the 4 frame sequence is duplicated for five 120 Hz frames for each film frame with equal display times for each frame.

24fps ABCD

60 Hz 3:2 AABBBCCDDD

120Hz 6:4 AAAABBBBBBCCCCDDDDDD

120Hz 5:5 AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDD


This is a simple method that avoids the processing time for reverse telecine.

Is this what the Sony does?


With the various video processor settings (Cinemotion? DRC?) the Sony will still not detect film based video and do inverse telecine correctly?

 

[bplewis24]



Quote:
Originally Posted by OreoJoe /forum/post/11962920

When the TV receives a video signal from a film source, the deinterlaced 60 Hz video signal with a 24 fps film source has a 3:2 pull down pattern. The frame rate is then doubled to 120 Hz with a 6:4 pattern. One of the frames in the 6 frame sequence is deleted and one of the frames in the 4 frame sequence is duplicated for five 120 Hz frames for each film frame with equal display times for each frame.

24fps ABCD

60 Hz 3:2 AABBBCCDDD

120Hz 6:4 AAAABBBBBBCCCCDDDDDD

120Hz 5:5 AAAAABBBBBCCCCCDDDDD


This is a simple method that avoids the processing time for reverse telecine.

But in this context we're not talking about a 60Hz video signal, we're concerned with native 1080p24 film content, which would be displayed differently.


In any event, are you saying the Sony doesn't display 1080p24 with 5:5 pulldown? Do you have a basis for this?


Brandon

 

[bplewis24]



Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan /forum/post/11962467


1. Link to that thread please.


2. What is the visual difference between 24fps judder and 3:2 pulldown judder? Is the first just that percieved slight staccato effect and the latter a left-right-left stagger like we see in the credits? Thank you.

1) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915620


You'll notice that a good portion of that relatively short thread (4 pages) is dedicated to the actual definition of "judder" and which one is 24fps judder and which one is 3:2 pulldown judder. Essentially, the former is a natural judder created from the relatively slow framerate, and the latter is a unwelcomed byproduct of having to do the 3:2 pulldown.


2) I'm probably not the best person to describe how it manifests itself in the picture, but it sounds to me like you described them accurately. This is a pretty informative post on the topic from that thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post11868562


Brandon

 

[b3b0p]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 /forum/post/11959388


Okay guys, the contact at CNet took a while getting back to me, but this is what he said:




Take that for what it's worth,


Brandon

It's also mentioned here:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155


Not sure where or how it was confirmed though. Didn't search the thread.

 

[chazk]

I just tried changing settings to power save of high and then turning backlight up to seven and found the blacks amazing. How have other found this and I also wonder how power saving on high may be offset by then turning backlight up in terms of eye fatigue?

 

[bplewis24]



Quote:
Originally Posted by b3b0p /forum/post/11964112


It's also mentioned here:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155


Not sure where or how it was confirmed though. Didn't search the thread.

Seems like he got his info from the same review that we discussed in the "judder is a good thing" thread.


But then our good friend gand41f questioned the poster about it, they did some more digging, and we got these two confirmations:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=229

Quote:
According to page 39 of the winter 2008 Perfect Vision magazine the Sony KDL-40XBR4 refreshes 1080P/24 material at 120HZ. According to page 42 of the winter 2008 Perfect Vision magazine the Toshiba 46LX177 also displays 1080P/24 material at 120HZ but the Perfect Vision magazine has made it clear in the specification section on page 42 that the Toshiba uses a 3:2 pulldown process in which 1080P/24 material is converted to 60HZ first before being converted to 120HZ. Using a 3:2 pulldown process with 1080P/24 has no benefit when it comes to reducing judder,etc. Since Toshiba has chosen to use the 3:2 pulldown process instead of a 5:5 pulldown process this is why the Toshiba displays are not included on the list along with many other companies that have choosen to not use multiplies of the original frame when displaying 1080P/24 material. No displays that use 3:2 pulldown when a 1080P/24 signal is applied are included on the list.

And:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=239

Quote:
The new XBR sets will not only display 24p as 5:5, but they will also take 60i, convert it to 24p, then display it at 120hz 5:5. The downside of the latter is that it takes a few frames to lock on the cadence of the signal, so it is better to feed 24p if possible. Be sure to check out the "theatre" viewing mode as well. SPE helped out with that and it works well. It is designed to emulate the picture on a professional display.

The latter quote was from an industry insider who also posts on AVS. Check the link for more details. Pretty good find, b3b0p.


Brandon

 

[bpmurr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband /forum/post/11961116


Your local tech doesn't work for Sony. There paid by Sony as a authorized service center. I've been through this with a different brand TV, and each TV maker knows there TV's inside and out. Sony knows whats going on with there panels. But you being the isolated incident I don't believe Sony believes somethings up? Or they don't have to worry about it with no one complaining. Its just logic because when an issue arises there would be more than one complaining. But I'll give you theres banding, but it doesn't bother but just a few.


But some of the long timers here know that its the CCFL that is the cause of most LCD issues, I believe its all the issues. So your going to knit pick every deficency of LCD technology or move on to some other technology? If i was to stay with plasma and pick every problem that technology has well there comes a point that no will listen.


Seems to me that you may have post traumatic banding disorder. Just a funny I made up.


My plasma caused alot of stress and I know that from my experience I don't want to go through this again. But does this mean that all plasmas are flawed? No theres way to many happy owners. Just like there are way to many XBR owners that don't see this banding issue going on. If so it would be another Sharp banding thread going on.


But to believe a salesman saying there holding back XBR's because of banding? This is a huge stretch.


One more thing: Yes there are issues with LCD technology. But there are issues with every technology, seems to me that your doing the right thing if something bothers you with banding by trying to solve the problem. But what would you try next? Plasma, RPTV? Every TV technology has issues and we read about them here. I'm sure that if XBR owners looked as hard as you do for banding they would find it too. But ignorance is bliss. And is it so important to point these deficniency's to all? Sure we want the best TV without problems, but how far are we going to take this? And I believe you've hit the end of the road looking for perfect uniformity because Sony has the least issues with there TV's.

The local tech has been in direct contact with Sony. They are very interested in what is going on in this case. I can't and won't get into all the details yet but Sony seems pretty commited to learning from this to fix things in the future. I think it's clear from the previous posts on here for the XBR2/3 that in the past Sony just doesn't go swapping panels out for the heck of it. So far Sony CS has been a class act both at corporate and the local rep.

 

[quix]



Quote:
Originally Posted by chazk /forum/post/11964150


I just tried changing settings to power save of high and then turning backlight up to seven and found the blacks amazing. How have other found this and I also wonder how power saving on high may be offset by then turning backlight up in terms of eye fatigue?

I turned power savings to low and bumped the

backlight up to 5 from gordong11's settings.

Going by my Panamax, it knocked 0.5 amps

off and there's a LOT less heat coming from

the screen. Whites aren't as bright, but when

I watch hockey I can see much more detail in

the ice. Might have lost a tiny bit of detail in

the blacks, but I think the picture looks better.

I don't seem to get motion sickness while gaming

as bad either, but I might have just gotten used

to the tv.


High knocks off 0.9 amps BTW.


Crap, forgot to mention it's a 46XBR5.

 

[b3b0p]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 /forum/post/11964329


Seems like he got his info from the same review that we discussed in the "judder is a good thing" thread.


But then our good friend gand41f questioned the poster about it, they did some more digging, and we got these two confirmations:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=229




And:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=239




The latter quote was from an industry insider who also posts on AVS. Check the link for more details. Pretty good find, b3b0p.


Brandon

Can you explain that last one to me? Accepts 1080i and converts it to 24p? That means it's doing inverse telecine, yes? It just takes a moment for it lock on?

 

[bpmurr]

That is currently how mine is set. I should update my settings in the calibration thread. It does make the black look great and hides clouds.

 

[bplewis24]



Quote:
Originally Posted by b3b0p /forum/post/11965332


Can you explain that last one to me? Accepts 1080i and converts it to 24p? That means it's doing inverse telecine, yes? It just takes a moment for it lock on?

Nah I can't really explain that one. It doesn't even sound like there's any real benefit to it unless he's saying it's original 24fps source material. Still, it just sounds like inverse telecine to me as well...just a more advanced way of doing it? Dunno.


Brandon

 

[yampan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 /forum/post/11963959


1) http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915620


You'll notice that a good portion of that relatively short thread (4 pages) is dedicated to the actual definition of "judder" and which one is 24fps judder and which one is 3:2 pulldown judder. Essentially, the former is a natural judder created from the relatively slow framerate, and the latter is a unwelcomed byproduct of having to do the 3:2 pulldown.


2) I'm probably not the best person to describe how it manifests itself in the picture, but it sounds to me like you described them accurately. This is a pretty informative post on the topic from that thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post11868562


Brandon

So to follow up- if you leave Cimemotion off, you can be left with Film judder, but not 3:2 judder, a look that some people like and others don't.


If you leave Cimemotion on, then you can eliminate both film judder and

3:2 judder. a look that others like and some don't?


Is that about right?

 

[bricklayerharp]

I am considering buying the xbr4/5, I was reading another thread today ( http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14891 )and a guy stated the new 120 technology actually causes 50 milliseconds of responce time. For gaming that could be a deal breaker. Does this guy know what he is talking about? Do any of you have problems with lag or ghosting when using ps3 or x box on your sets? Thanks for any input!!

 

[OldPete]



Quote:
Originally Posted by yampan /forum/post/11966530


So to follow up- if you leave Cimemotion off, you can be left with Film judder, but not 3:2 judder, a look that some people like and others don't.


If you leave Cimemotion on, then you can eliminate both film judder and

3:2 judder. a look that others like and some don't?


Is that about right?

The gist of the discussion so far to me is that Cinemotion is for 3:2 judder, and Motion Enhancement is for film judder. Cinemotion Auto 2 does 3:2 judder only, and Cinemotion Auto 1 is for 3:2 judder, using M.E. if desired for film judder.


What do you say, Brandon? You're the one dialed in; thanks for continuing the discussion.

 

[acurism]

Could somebody please post some pics of their 46/52" XBR5?


I have pretty much covered this thread from top to bottom(104 pages and counting, lots of reading!) and I don't recall seeing any XBR5 pics.


I have seen plenty of XBR4's(both here at avsforum and at Circuit City/Best Buy) but I have yet to see the XBR5.


I also went to my local Circuit City and Best Buy again today(4th weekend in a row!) with no luck as they have yet to get any in on the showroom floor.

 

[john barlow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bricklayerharp /forum/post/11967016


I am considering buying the xbr4/5, I was reading another thread today ( http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14891 )and a guy stated the new 120 technology actuall causes 50 milliseconds of responce time. Does this guy know what he is talking about? Do any of you have problems with lag or ghosting when using ps3 or x box on your sets? Thanks for any input!!

Best TV I have ever owned. You can buy this set with confidence. They are hard to find at B&M stores. I recommend buying one from BB or CC. This way if you're not happy you have 30 days to return it. They don't seem to stock the 52XBR4, But they will order it for you and you can pick it up or have it delivered. Good Luck.

 

[ny888]

Anyone know how to remove the "Muting" display on the screen when it is muted? I've got my Harmony 880 remote working to switch everything properly but when I have the souind routed to the receiver, I mute the TV and want to get rid of the on screen message.