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Hey Mike, Yes I am convinced for pb-3000 and was asking docrog any data points he has for going for sb-4000, and based on his reply it looks like it was mostly due to spatial issues. Thanks!
You can see the cavities (with black grille cloth) built into the corners of the front cabinetry under the screen in my HT. Neither the depth or height of these enclosures (slightly smaller than a 20" cube) would have accommodated the dimensions of either the PB-3000 or PB-4000. WAF did not support my placing a ported sub elsewhere in the room. The SB-4000 now resides snugly in the right enclosure and the remaining SB-2000 on the left. I'm supremely happy with the quality and quantity of subwoofer output and look forward to many years with the configuration. For purposes of scale, the 16:9 screen is 117" in width (127" diagonally) and the couch (MLP) is approximately 13' from the subwoofer grilles.

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@mthomas47, is it your opinion that the SB-2000 is incapable of adding to the output of the SB-4000 in the important 30-100Hz range even if appropriate parametric EQ is applied to both subs?
 

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@mthomas47, is it your opinion that the SB-2000 is incapable of adding to the output of the SB-4000 in the important 30-100Hz range even if appropriate parametric EQ is applied to both subs?

I don't see why it couldn't add to the overall bass output, if PEQ were applied to both subwoofers. I think that REW would be helpful in telling you how much it adds, though. If both subwoofers are playing at the same volume level, the SB2000 will run out of gas faster, especially in the lower frequencies, than the SB4000 will. That's one reason why matching subwoofer capabilities can be helpful.

On the other hand, if you are running both subwoofers well short of compression, then I don't think that the differences in overall output will be as much of a factor. Blending two different sealed subs is inherently easier, in my opinion, than blending two different ported subs.

Regards,
Mike
 

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I don't see why it couldn't add to the overall bass output, if PEQ were applied to both subwoofers. I think that REW would be helpful in telling you how much it adds, though. If both subwoofers are playing at the same volume level, the SB2000 will run out of gas faster, especially in the lower frequencies, than the SB4000 will. That's one reason why matching subwoofer capabilities can be helpful.

On the other hand, if you are running both subwoofers well short of compression, then I don't think that the differences in overall output will be as much of a factor. Blending two different sealed subs is inherently easier, in my opinion, than blending two different ported subs.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks for that information, Mike. I'm able to apply PEQ to the SB-2000 via a 4 band PEQ in my AVR and I can apply PEQ to the SB-4000 both by the AVR (4 bands) as well as 3 bands via the SVS app. As a rule, other than action movies, I don't run anywhere close to "pedal to the metal" and subjectively find that the SB-2000 does make a difference in the 30-80Hz frequency range at my typical playback volume (especially jazz & orchestral).
 
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You can see the cavities (with black grille cloth) built into the corners of the front cabinetry under the screen in my HT. Neither the depth or height of these enclosures (slightly smaller than a 20" cube) would have accommodated the dimensions of either the PB-3000 or PB-4000. WAF did not support my placing a ported sub elsewhere in the room. The SB-4000 now resides snugly in the right enclosure and the remaining SB-2000 on the left. I'm supremely happy with the quality and quantity of subwoofer output and look forward to many years with the configuration. For purposes of scale, the 16:9 screen is 117" in width (127" diagonally) and the couch (MLP) is approximately 13' from the subwoofer grilles.
Nice setup docrog. That stand/cabinet you got custom built or purchased from somewhere? It nicely hides away your sb-4000 and 2000s:)
 

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Nice setup docrog. That stand/cabinet you got custom built or purchased from somewhere? It nicely hides away your sb-4000 and 2000s:)
Thanks! This multi-function room (bat cave in the evening) is situated above the garage. The cabinetry was built to order when we constructed our home in 2006. The drawers are specifically divided to hold video cases and paraphernalia & manuals (etc.) are behind center doors (not visible in the photo). The subwoofer cubicles were intended for my 1999 Velodyne subs which subsequently quit working and couldn't be repaired. That eventually led me to order from SVS. The SB-4000 fits like a glove inside the opening. All electronic equipment is located in the cabinetry to the left (open in the back) and the right sided closet holds books and CDs. BTW, I was absolutely stunned by the slam from Terminator 2 with my new set-up, even though the Blu-Ray was only a 5.1 track. The 2 subs are providing everything I need for my physical space.
 
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Thanks for that information, Mike. I'm able to apply PEQ to the SB-2000 via a 4 band PEQ in my AVR and I can apply PEQ to the SB-4000 both by the AVR (4 bands) as well as 3 bands via the SVS app. As a rule, other than action movies, I don't run anywhere close to "pedal to the metal" and subjectively find that the SB-2000 does make a difference in the 30-80Hz frequency range at my typical playback volume (especially jazz & orchestral).
I don't think I have PEQ settings in my AVR Pioneer sc-95 to tune sb-2000. Is there any other name for PEQ that I should look for in the manual.
 

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I don't think I have PEQ settings in my AVR Pioneer sc-95 to tune sb-2000. Is there any other name for PEQ that I should look for in the manual.
I just looked at the manual for your AVR and there doesn't appear to be any user based multi-band EQ (PEQ) capability within the MCACC room correction software. I believe that there are stand alone devices which can provide more extensive subwoofer (bass) management but I'm not able to provide any additional information on that. Perhaps another forum reader could be helpful in that regard.
 
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miniDSP 2x4 HD
 
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Hi everyone. I have an issue that is stumping me. I have an SB-2000 and i got the amp replaced in Feb and then i noticed a hum or noise would kick in occasionally. Tech Support was skeptical but gave me a new amp 2 months later and again i still have this noise. I don't understand why it is not happening all the time but when it occurs i can hear it. I tried changing my power to a different surge protector but it still occurs. If i replaced the amp is there anything left that could cause it? it is hard to believe it is the speaker itself. i re opened the back and confirmed all the connections are tight and nothing is loose. I have two different audio cables i have tried, neither made a different. Any more suggestions? Is it from my receiver? it is not that old and I never hear any noise from my speakers, just the sub.
 

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Hi everyone. I have an issue that is stumping me. I have an SB-2000 and i got the amp replaced in Feb and then i noticed a hum or noise would kick in occasionally. Tech Support was skeptical but gave me a new amp 2 months later and again i still have this noise. I don't understand why it is not happening all the time but when it occurs i can hear it. I tried changing my power to a different surge protector but it still occurs. If i replaced the amp is there anything left that could cause it? it is hard to believe it is the speaker itself. i re opened the back and confirmed all the connections are tight and nothing is loose. I have two different audio cables i have tried, neither made a different. Any more suggestions? Is it from my receiver? it is not that old and I never hear any noise from my speakers, just the sub.
Noise from electrical interference can be very frustrating to track down. Try bypassing the surge protector and plug directly into the wall. If that doesn't help, try unplugging your other components one by one until the noise stops and you will have found the culprit. If that doesn't do it, you will have to investigate even deeper. Search AVS for "ground loop hum" and dive down the rabbit hole.
 

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Noise from electrical interference can be very frustrating to track down. Try bypassing the surge protector and plug directly into the wall. If that doesn't help, try unplugging your other components one by one until the noise stops and you will have found the culprit. If that doesn't do it, you will have to investigate even deeper. Search AVS for "ground loop hum" and dive down the rabbit hole.
I will give that a shot. I was thinking i should try moving the receiver off the surge protector as well. Nothing in my system changed other than the amp on the sub before this started happening.
 

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UMIK-1 + REW is great combo (y)
 

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I bought 2 x SVS SB16 Ultras which were delivered 23 June 2020 as an upgrade from my previous subs

since then I have literally spent days/weeks trying to get them to perform
numerous runs with Audyssey and measuring with REW but still the bass performance is very weak

SVS Volume is -20 on both subs and returns -10 trims on both subs post EQ
test tones and SPL meter confirms sytem is balanced at 75db so the gain should be Ok
but as I say watching actual various content and even reducing trims to -5 the bass is lacking as an example "John Wick" nightclub scene gunfire has no punch or dynamics

One thing I have noticed is that my system now sounds quieter than normal
in my 20 x 17 6" x 8 room with a Denon 8500 I normally listen at -10 main volume
so as a experiment I upped that to -5.0 MVC which made a big difference
its early days but now the SVS subs seem to be performing
it is just as if they were not receiving enough voltage to the amp plate to bring them to life

sorry for the long post
the question is why am I now having to listen at -5 which is very high to bring things back to some kind of normality and get proper bass from the SVS subs
 

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Can anybody please give me some advice. I'm about to choose between a SB2000 pro (€999) and a SB3000 (€1399). I only have 2 stores but too far away to listen.

The livingroom section (where couch and tv is) is 4.5m x 5.5m with an open layout (L shape) including the kitchen. So full base floor is 5.5mx10m excluding the hallway.

Both stores advice the SB2000 pro over the SB3000. Would you concur or is the 3000 worth the extra €400?
 

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I bought 2 x SVS SB16 Ultras which were delivered 23 June 2020 as an upgrade from my previous subs

since then I have literally spent days/weeks trying to get them to perform
numerous runs with Audyssey and measuring with REW but still the bass performance is very weak

SVS Volume is -20 on both subs and returns -10 trims on both subs post EQ
test tones and SPL meter confirms sytem is balanced at 75db so the gain should be Ok
but as I say watching actual various content and even reducing trims to -5 the bass is lacking as an example "John Wick" nightclub scene gunfire has no punch or dynamics

One thing I have noticed is that my system now sounds quieter than normal
in my 20 x 17 6" x 8 room with a Denon 8500 I normally listen at -10 main volume
so as a experiment I upped that to -5.0 MVC which made a big difference
its early days but now the SVS subs seem to be performing
it is just as if they were not receiving enough voltage to the amp plate to bring them to life

sorry for the long post
the question is why am I now having to listen at -5 which is very high to bring things back to some kind of normality and get proper bass from the SVS subs

Hi,

The Guide goes into some detail about what happens, during a calibration, with an automated tool such as Audyssey. (See Section II-A of the Guide, linked below.) All of the channels are set to the same volume level, during calibration, and that accomplishes two things. First, it establishes a relationship between your master volume and Dolby/THX Reference, for 5.1 movies. Second, it enables the automated system of room correction to EQ all of the channels at the same volume level. The hypothetical target is no more than a +/- 3dB variance, at any frequency, from the 75dB test tone volume.

But, once the calibration process is complete, bass inevitably has to be added, due to the way we hear (or actually the way we don't hear) lower-frequencies. The way that we hear different frequencies is described graphically by the Equal Loudness Contours. (See Section VII-C of the Guide.) It is very normal to need to add subwoofer boost after a calibration, and a trim increase of +5dB at -10 MV is what many would consider to be a very modest subwoofer boost.

Unless you like listening at -5 MV, I would recommending going back to about -10 MV, or whatever your preferred listening level is, and increasing the gain on the two subwoofers from -20 to about -15 or so. A number of listening tests conducted by Dr. Sean Olive, Dr. Floyd Toole, and others, found that most people prefer a substantial bass boost in order to hear low-frequencies in some relative equivalency to those sounds in our more normal hearing range. And, that was mainly for music. As we get into the low-bass special effects in movies, the desire to add more subwoofer boost typically increases.

At gain settings of just -20, you are only using a fraction of the potential output of your large, powerful subs. To access that output, you only need to turn-up the volume of your subs, and using your gain controls to do that would be the best method, in my opinion.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Can anybody please give me some advice. I'm about to choose between a SB2000 pro (€999) and a SB3000 (€1399). I only have 2 stores but too far away to listen.

The livingroom section (where couch and tv is) is 4.5m x 5.5m with an open layout (L shape) including the kitchen. So full base floor is 5.5mx10m excluding the hallway.

Both stores advice the SB2000 pro over the SB3000. Would you concur or is the 3000 worth the extra €400?
Omega010

I just carefully and slowly read your Post.
I cannot tell you what's going on as I don't have that sort of expertise.
What I can share with you is what took place with my audio regrading bass after I had some changes/up-dates done once.
The Bass was simply NOT any-longer performing even close to what it was previous to those latest (Back Then) changes.
I didn't get torn-up over it as I knew Chad B. out Ohio in the USA was coming to do Both my Audio & Video Custom Calibrating.
What did end-up taking place was Chad did his thing and once again the Bass was "Outstanding" !!!

I mention the above to say that if you have access to getting a Professional Calibrator come I suggest doing it as it's (Definitely) worth every penny spent.

Also, just maybe mthomas47 will see your Post he is on this AVS internet site and he is the go to Man on Bass !!!


Good-Luck,
Terry
 

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Can anybody please give me some advice. I'm about to choose between a SB2000 pro (€999) and a SB3000 (€1399). I only have 2 stores but too far away to listen.

The livingroom section (where couch and tv is) is 4.5m x 5.5m with an open layout (L shape) including the kitchen. So full base floor is 5.5mx10m excluding the hallway.

Both stores advice the SB2000 pro over the SB3000. Would you concur or is the 3000 worth the extra €400?
Here is the SB-2000 response curve from audioholics:


Here is the SB-3000:


CEA data SB-2000:
SB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
20Hz 92.1 dB
25Hz 97.1 dB
31.5Hz 102.8 dB
40Hz 108.3 dB
50Hz 108.9 dB
63Hz 109.2 dB

CEA SB-3000:




EDIT: I had the correct curve for the SB-2000 but not the right CEA numbers. The SB-3000 does appear to be better across the board.
 
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