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AVS Forum welcomes Bruce Hall, President/CEO of Velodyne.


In this thread, please feel free to ask support questions in regards to Velodyne products. Velodyne staff will monitor the thread and respond as they can. Members of this forum of course are also welcome to help out as they can. For after all, this site is dedicated to people helping people in Home Theater.
 

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I have 2 questions, but maybe only one is a "support" question.



1) I came across a demo HGS-15THX at a local dealer for $1800. Seems like a good deal, but what do you think?


2) I've had Velodynes in the past, but now not. The dealer says, no more HGS series II. Is there a replacement? Or rmaybe this is a better way to phrase it: is there a replacement I can afford?
I know the new DD subs are quite expensive. Or maybe the DD-12 is more or less equivalent to the old HGS-15 in terms of performance?
 

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Bruce,

Thanks for taking the time to contribute here and more importantly develop the DD series of subs. First significant advancement in sub technology!

I just purchased the DD-18 & love it.


Here goes:

1. What do you recommend regarding mains, small or large?

The general assumption is mains can't go low...but some can.

See attached for freq.resp of my mains (VA Mahlers per Stereophile). They go to about 35Hz before serious dropoff occurs.

Aren't I wasting the mains running them small?

The impact on the curve by adjusting the DD18 eq is minimal when they are set to Large (since mains are not being controlled).

Does THX mode forces them small to avoid this low freq competition?

2. GUI question: If I adjust the sliders & exit without saving changes, then return to setup the sliders are as I left them (as if I did save changes).

Is this intentional?

3. Didn't I read that the HGS Series will live on as a budget model called the HGS-X?

4. What are the capabilities of the DD subs computer-wise?

i.e. How much memory, what programming language does it use, what chip, might this become an open-architecture where users can program it?


Thanks again!


PS The finish on the DD-18 is beautiful.

 

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An online support thread for a retail only manufacturer? Wow! I'm surprised - but very pleased.


Welcome Bruce - glad to see you here!!
 

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Quote:
1) I came across a demo HGS-15THX at a local dealer for $1800. Seems like a good deal, but what do you think?


2) I've had Velodynes in the past, but now not. The dealer says, no more HGS series II. Is there a replacement? Or rmaybe this is a better way to phrase it: is there a replacement I can afford? I know the new DD subs are quite expensive. Or maybe the DD-12 is more or less equivalent to the old HGS-15 in terms of performance?

1). Can't tell you that's the BEST price - there are a lot of places to look and a lot of older Velodyne subs out there. I can say that the price is well under the street price for the HGS-15, and is likely under what will be the suggested price for the HGSX-15 (see #2).


2). The HGS series will live on in the form of the HGSX. We will be doing 12 and 15 inch versions, shipping next month. Re the DD-12 versus HGS-15, all DD subs have an additional 1/4" travel and more liberal gain compressor processing, both allowing them to play louder. I don't know how the DD-12 will stack up to the HGS-15, but I do know that a DD-12 was being tested at the factory and it was bringing the walls down. We'll look at that tomorrow and get some specs.


Hope this helps,

Bruce
 

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Bruce,


I have and existing M&KV125 (12 inch 125w amp sealed box). I am moving into a new home with about 6500 cubic feet including all rooms connected to the home theater (archways going to other parts of the house). The actual theater will be 19 feet by 18 feet by 9 feet. Will a DD15 combined with my M&K provide an ample amount of low frequency energy?
 

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Bruce,


I'm not a current velodyne owner, but I am seriously considering velodyne subs for my new HT setup (anyting in the price rnge of the servo 15's canadian prce), and i just wanna say that what you are doing is extremely cool.


we need more guys like Mark Shifter and Bruce in here!
 

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Well since no one will reply to this in another thread, I'll post it here.


How do the CHT8 and CHT10 sound? what are they like?

Is $179 for the CHT-8 a good price from Video Only in Tukwila, WA. I'm not sure if they are a seattle washington only dealer or not. i wanna know how the CHT-8 and 10 are.
 

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Thanks Bruce!
 

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I've been trying to find prices for the new DD line and can't find any. Will you give me the price points for the new subs? Thanks


Daniel Smith
 

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Quote:
1. What do you recommend regarding mains, small or large?

The general assumption is mains can't go low...but some can.

See attached for freq.resp of my mains (VA Mahlers per Stereophile). They go to about 35Hz before serious dropoff occurs.

Aren't I wasting the mains running them small?

The impact on the curve by adjusting the DD18 eq is minimal when they are set to Large (since mains are not being controlled).

Does THX mode forces them small to avoid this low freq competition?

2. GUI question: If I adjust the sliders & exit without saving changes, then return to setup the sliders are as I left them (as if I did save changes).

Is this intentional?

3. Didn't I read that the HGS Series will live on as a budget model called the HGS-X?

4. What are the capabilities of the DD subs computer-wise?

i.e. How much memory, what programming language does it use, what chip, might this become an open-architecture where users can program it?

Hi Cajun,

Glad you're enjoying the sub!


1. Of course, we think that the DD sub will handle the bass frequencies better than any main speakers, since that's it's one and only job (backed up by 1250 watts and a large motor structure to handle the long excursions required for low frequencies). This also frees up amp headroom for the rest of the audio spectrum being played by your mains. Bass below 120 Hz is non-directional (as long as it's low distortion), so there is not a compelling reason to run the mains full range. A better crossover point might be in the 60 - 80 Hz range, to retain the "personality" of the Mahlers yet give the sub enough to do to lighten the load on the Mahlers and to have enough bass contribution to let the EQs flatten the response.


Re the THX mode, ALL the crossovers are handled by the processor, and in that case you'd want to run the DD low pass crossover up to 199 Hz (the slope doesn't really matter at this point).


2. Yes, it is a bit counter-intuitive, but it is working by design. The save settings preserves the settings through a power-off condition (by writing the settings to flash memory that is accessed at power up). The active memory in the unit is changed in real time as you change the settings (i.e. there is no "undo").


3. True. There will be 12 and 15" HGSX models, shipping next month.


4. The chip is a TI 2407 DSP with 32K RAM. The code is TI assembler (we had to get down and dirty to get the video timing right - it is all generated directly form the chip) and the IDE is Code Composer from TI. I doubt we would or could open up the architecture - it is highly integrated and complex. What might happen is that we open up the ability to have folks save off crossover points and other setup data externally then share with others. For example, we're seriously considering offering default settings for various kinds of mains. All this could be done via the serial interface.


Hope this helps,

Bruce
 

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Bruce,

Thanks, excellent reply...(assembly language YUCK!)

One FINAL question (I promise):

What is your position on sub driver size versus speed?

There was a post here by UncleEric that basically said it was a non-issue (that post is mysteriously deleted).

IOW do you feel that smaller are faster & larger are deeper thus 2 are needed?

If not why is there is an 18" and a 12" in the Signature 1812.

Thanks for your time.
 

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Hey I do low level assembly and happen to like it...but then again I'm a masachist when it comes to programming. :)
 

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You MUST be
.

It's funny when you need something reliable the first thing you avoid is Windows...even though that's all I use. updates, dll's, patches, vxd's etc.

Assembly is LEAN AND MEAN & stable.

Meanwhile back at the C++ compiler....
 

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Buggs,

Sent you a PM.


Bruce
 

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Mr. Hall, I own the SPL-1200 and have had to tighten the tiny screws which hold the amp plate on, on two occasions. Both times occured after the sub test via the AVIA disc. I mention this because of the load the sub is given during the test. Anyway, is this a known issue and is there something I can do to the screws (add glue maybe?) to keep them secured? Just so you know, I've tightened them down as far as I could without stripping them. I can't imaging tightening them anymore. Aside from that, I LOVE this sub !


Thanks in advance.
 

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Bruce,


Welcome to the fourm!


I've been a very happy HGS18 owner for several years and was currious about changes implemented in the HGS II series. As I understand, there were changes to the amp to reduce the noise level and some changes to the driver as well.


1) Is it possible to rework the amp to a Series II configuration and does the driver also need rework?

2) What benefits does the Series II offer over the original?

3) Does Velodyne offer Series II upgrades?


TIA for your answer.
 

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Quote:
What is your position on sub driver size versus speed?

There was a post here by Uncle Eric that basically said it was a non-issue (that post is mysteriously deleted).

IOW do you feel that smaller are faster & larger are deeper thus 2 are needed?

If not why is there is an 18" and a 12" in the Signature 1812.

Cajun,

This is a hotly debated topic but of course, I do have an opinion. In short, I agree with Uncle Eric, but let me explain in my own (numerous) words.


As I see it, the implication that folks make when they say that a 15" or 18" driver is "slower" than a smaller 10" or 12" driver is either that the mass of the driver is such that the motor cannot move its weight with the same precision as that of the smaller driver and/or the cone is flexing enough so that the woofer sounds boomy or muddy. The latter effect will have more impact on the perceived boominess and muddiness of the driver (in that it will produce more distortion) so let's address that first. This of course relates to cone stiffness, and a larger cone made of the same material will bend more and, in the worst case, buckle under the load of long throw bass combined with cabinet pressure. This is overcome with stiffer materials and/or cone reinforcement, and while it is true that a larger cone is subject to less linearity along the cone surface, this effect is minimized with a stiff enough cone. Too often, large drivers are made out of the same materials as smaller drivers and so aren't stiff enough - this is where this perception likely started.


Regarding the driver being heavy to be moved correctly, there are three main forces opposing the motion of the cone structure: the weight of the cone, the pressure inside the box, and the resistance of the suspension (i.e. the surround and spider). It's true that the bigger the cone the more mass there is, but you'd be surprised how much the air pressure in the box and the suspension stiffness affect cone movement too.


All of these factors can be overcome by motor force, otherwise known in speaker land as BL. BL is the combination of magnet force combined with the length of voice coil wire in the gap. The higher the BL, the more motor force is applied to the cone. As a speaker designer, one has to ensure that there is enough BL to overcome the cone mass, suspension stiffness, and box design you are planning on. Not enough BL and your cone doesn't move correctly, and too much and you spent too much on the driver. Of course, one also needs sufficient amp power to drive the motor. We also use a high gain servo to make sure the cone movement is true to the input signal.


An often overlooked spec in comparing speakers is magnet weight. We use 310 ounce (19.3 pound) magnets for the DD-10 and DD-12 and 380 ounce (24 pound) magnets for the DD-15 ad DD-18. Why so big? Because we never want to run short of motor force and we need more BL for the 15 and 18.


Now let's talk efficiency. SPL= sound pressure level = amount of air moved by the speaker cone. Given similar travel distances (all DDs go up to 1.75" peak to peak), the formula is 2 pi r (i.e. cone area) * travel. Some simple math shows that a 15" cone moves a heck of a lot more air than a 10 or a 12. And an 18 more yet. Yet, the additional motor force to move the larger cones is disproportional to how much more air they move - so the larger the cone the more air is moved for less energy.


Lastly, let me comment on the phrases "slow" versus "fast". To us, these terms almost entirely describe the amount of perceived distortion the speaker is producing. That idea is somewhat radical, but we've based our designs on it for almost 20 years with a fair bit of success. We've strived for very low distortion in all our subs, and the DD-15s and DD-18s have no more than the DD-10s and DD-12s. So, we consider them as "fast" as anything going.


Re the 1812 - what we did there is let the 18 handle the lowest bass, since it's efficiency lets the long excursions needed for 40 Hz and below be reproduced with optimal use of BL and amp power. The 12's job is to handle the upper bass frequencies and not spend its headroom trying to recreate 20 Hz. The result is a sub that will play louder than either alone, or even in tandem, because we've optimized the efficiencies of both. This does not mean that a stand-alone 18 cannot play 100 Hz or that a stand alone 12 cannot play 20 Hz - but combined (and crossed over internally with special software) we can squeeze out more clean bass since the efficiency of each driver is optimized.


Sorry for the long post!


Bruce
 
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Quote:
Mr. Hall, I own the SPL-1200 and have had to tighten the tiny screws which hold the amp plate on, on two occasions. Both times occured after the sub test via the AVIA disc. I mention this because of the load the sub is given during the test. Anyway, is this a known issue and is there something I can do to the screws (add glue maybe?) to keep them secured? Just so you know, I've tightened them down as far as I could without stripping them. I can't imaging tightening them anymore. Aside from that, I LOVE this sub !

Iguana,


This is a new one to us. First thought is to try some Loctite. If that doesn't work, could you contact the service department at 408-465-2800 or [email protected] ?


Thanks

Bruce
 
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