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I agree with this as well. It uses a higher backlight setting which changes midtone luminance. It's less accurate, but fine for daytime.



Just understand that Dolby specifically has tuned the GR using the Calibrated Dark picture mode.


I thought when dv was detected the only difference between cal and cal dark was gamma.


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So seems like the consensus is if I feel a picture is too blinding bright average picture level, first use calibrated dark and then if it was still too bright change the gamma to 2.4 instead of moving the backlight down?

The opposite being true if I find the picture is too dim, say daytime viewing with windows open, first use calibrated (not dark) then if it is hard to see move the gamma down to either 2.0 or 1.8 instead of cranking the backlight up?

Like I said I haven't watched anything besides a few quick clips of Marco Polo so wanted to make sure I didn't mess anything up for movie night or be spending the whole movie tweaking it and annoying the GF. I just knew with SDR I had 3 backlight settings depending on ambient light in the room, 100 w/ 2.0 gamma for daytime windows open, 60 w/ 2.1 gamma for evening/windows closed, and 20-30 w/ 2.2 gamma for pitch black viewing. So sounds like I should just cut the backlight control out of the mix when using DV and only play with gamma IF I have any issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #18,843
I thought when dv was detected the only difference between cal and cal dark was gamma.


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I believe it's the backlight that's boosted to a brighter luminance point in DV Calibrated. I never use it and I rarely change the gamma as I find the majority of the mastered titles to be pretty good now. I have a room where it works day and nite. My daytime ambient is maybe 40% brighter than evening.
 

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To those using computers to connect to their display but are having issues:

I had an ongoing issue where my 2013 MBP couldn't play 40-50g MKVs on the TV. I had to 1.) put the computer into the 1080p HDMI5 port even though my blu-ray player works perfectly with HDMI1 2.) Set the computer's external resolution from "auto" to "scaled" to 1080p. It resolved the issue for me immediately.


-Vader
 

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I agree with this as well. It uses a higher backlight setting which changes midtone luminance. It's less accurate, but fine for daytime.

Just understand that Dolby specifically has tuned the GR using the Calibrated Dark picture mode.
OK, one last thing I need clarified. Without touching any of the settings, viewing DV in either calibrated display mode, should look identical? If so, does this apply to all display modes, like vivid, and personal saved ones?
 

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Discussion Starter #18,846 (Edited)
I thought when dv was detected the only difference between cal and cal dark was gamma.


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It's changed from early on I guess. It does just change the gamma setting now to 2.4 (which makes no sense as it's darker w 2.4 than 2.2) You can change the gamma setting to whatever.

DV is designed to be used with Calibrated Dark.
 

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it should be. on paper its perfect which is why i selected the 55 as my tv for the next 10 years. but i didnt get that...obviously. im coming from a vx37l lcd "pre led days" which may not have had the sharpest pic but had great viewing angles and 10 years later is still defect free. i think the ips is less forgiving of blemishes than the va. ive noticed on my p65 when i get over 45 deg off center i see crazy banding, but in the 30 deg viewing angle its not apparent...at all. on the 55 if there was a band it was visible from dead on and every other angle as well. the black screen test on the 65 is not as black as the 55 was in the center but it doesnt suffer from any of the corner bleed or flashlighting issues. im curious to see how the m60 experience is.

The greatness potential of the IPS/FALD combo was foreshadowed by this monster, http://www.digitaltrends.com/tv-reviews/panasonic-tc-65ax900-review/ Among the best TV's ever, including OLED...but no bargain at around $7K when it came out.
 

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Is what you're experiencing the same as this? Skip to 4 minutes


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r9oOB5zeLgM
Not sure what size P series you and @bpnta have...but on my P50 I am pretty much getting this effect that is seen at the 4 minute mark of the video. Even when just walking you can see in that video that everything just looks like a blur...thought the P50 would be great since "allegedly" the motion blur is the same as the larger models.

@wxman123 your making regret my P55 swap for the P50 lol
 

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Discussion Starter #18,849
OK, one last thing I need clarified. Without touching any of the settings, viewing DV in either calibrated display mode, should look identical? If so, does this apply to all display modes, like vivid, and personal saved ones?
No... only Calibrated Dark and Calibrated trigger in DV mode.

You could try using Calibrated for daytime and manually adjust the backlight setting higher if you need more brightness than a gamma change will give you.

I don't recommend it but it really can't hurt anything as long as you leave Cal Dark alone and use that for theatrically dark room.
 

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Here you go. Now, you need to give up already, I know you're hoping to find an issue, but you won't. The bars on that show are not 100% black, on the brightest scene I'd say 90%. You would never say grey, but not inky black. Still pretty darn good considering the set's other attributes.
What type of camera are you using? IPhone 6s? If so I found it quite difficult to get an exact picture (which I posted wayyyyyy back in this thread when I first discovered the issues of my P55 LB bars) because the cell phone made the image and black bars appear much inkier than they were. I'm not saying your lying or anything like that, you probably have yourself a great P55, but Patrick, myself, Jollygood, and a few others have run into this issue, probably why we are all questioning you because, you either don't notice it or you really got yourself a realy good IPS from Vizio.

Anyway, stop posting and go enjoy your set...wish I could say the same.
 

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The only difference between calibrated and calibrated dark is gamma. CD is 2.2 and C is 2.1. They both go to 50% backlight when triggered by DV content. I use gamma 2.0 for daytime but I have a bright room.

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With it set like that the AVR does not power up or down with the tv/dtv like it should I jut went and re tried it. I have an older Harmony 1100 that will work it with macros but it should work on its own without having to use a special remote. Or am I just not understanding how CEC should work ?
What you may not be understanding is the unreliability of CEC/ARC. ;)
 

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What type of camera are you using? IPhone 6s? If so I found it quite difficult to get an exact picture (which I posted wayyyyyy back in this thread when I first discovered the issues of my P55 LB bars) because the cell phone made the image and black bars appear much inkier than they were. I'm not saying your lying or anything like that, you probably have yourself a great P55, but Patrick, myself, Jollygood, and a few others have run into this issue, probably why we are all questioning you because, you either don't notice it or you really got yourself a realy good IPS from Vizio.

Anyway, stop posting and go enjoy your set...wish I could say the same.

Ehh, in my setup I can "work" and enjoy the set at the same time. As noted, I have an LG IPS monitor so I know the issue of which you speak. The IPS glow is rampant on the monitor (still love it though, widescreen kicks a$$) but there is zero glow on the TV with FALD on and a head on view. Yes I took the pictures w/Iphone 6 and yes it makes everything darker. That said, in a worst case (House of cards white bldg and pitch black room) the side bars are still nearly black. My set looks nothing at all like the leaks and glows depicted in other sets, but my set DOES look like that with FALD off. I guess you have to trust me.
 

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Not sure what size P series you and @bpnta have...but on my P50 I am pretty much getting this effect that is seen at the 4 minute mark of the video. Even when just walking you can see in that video that everything just looks like a blur...thought the P50 would be great since "allegedly" the motion blur is the same as the larger models.

@wxman123 your making regret my P55 swap for the P50 lol
Does the P65-C1 handle this much better? I am asking because I have a KS8000 right now which I like a lot about but it seems to blur a lot in motion scenes and games, losing a lot of detail when gaming and fast action scenes, which would be the main reason I'd try the P65 instead.
 

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DolbyVision uses a color mapping technology called the Golden Reference. It's a color roadmap that allows content creators/studios to map content to a common/absolute gamut that can then be recreated more accurately than has been previously possible.... and to do so in HDR on WCG displays. Hence you shouldn't mess with any of the settings I listed because all of those things affect the Golden Reference and will skew further from intent.
My understanding of this is that each individual Dolby Vision HDR model has its own golden reference. That is basically a set of parameters that the manufacture has said is as close to the DV master as the display can get.

There are tolerances for each display and so most examples even from the same model line will not hit their model’s Golden Reference 100%. Instead most will be very close to it. A few will be mildly off from the GR and an insignificant number will be very off the GR because of a defect in the display. Ideally Quality Control will eliminate as many of the defective displays as possible.

I believe the Golden Reference is not at the Dolby Vision level. I believe it is at the individual model level. It allows the end user to make adjustments to their display to bring it as close as possible to the GR by adjusting the settings. In virtually all cases this is not a requirement since most of the displays are very close to the GR to begin with. However, in a few rare cases calibrating to the GR will show some real world improvement.

As far as I am aware the Vizio R-series is the only consumer level TV on the market today that can exceed the color spectrum that “some” of the UHD HDR movies are mastered with(DCI-P3 for example). That means that even if we calibrate our P-series to the GR we still will not be seeing 100% exactly what the person who edited the DV master was seeing. Instead we will be seeing 100% of what the GR P-series display would show.

Here is the paragraph from the Dolby Vision Calibration Guide that I believe supports what I have written above.

“For calibration, there are some conceptual changes that are different for Dolby Vision. The goal of a calibration is not to closely match the performance of a TV to an industry standard color description such as Rec.709. Instead, due to the intelligent real-time mapping of the large input color volume to the display’s capabilities, characterization and calibration are carried out against a ‘Golden Reference’. The ‘Golden Reference’ describes the full capabilities unique to this display model and has to be selected before starting any measurement.”
It is extremely important that everyone understand that HDR calibration is different from REC.709 calibration. With REC.709 you were always trying to “Dumb Down” the TV to meet an inferior specification so that every display would look 100% the same.

With HDR the specification is intended to never be the limiting factor. It is set so high that for the foreseeable future no consumer level displays will be able to exceed it in every aspect. Therefore the display itself becomes the limiting factor and no two displays will ever look the exact same unless they are from the same model line and they have both been calibrated to the same model line “Golden Reference”.
 

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The only difference between calibrated and calibrated dark is gamma. CD is 2.2 and C is 2.1. They both go to 50% backlight when triggered by DV content. I use gamma 2.0 for daytime but I have a bright room.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk
It is important to realize that the "50%" value for backlight while playing DV is absolutely meaningless. The display is in control of the backlight with DV content and the "Calibrated" or "Calibrated" dark profile. The display is controlling the backlight dynamically as the content plays but they have to show us some value for backlight so they show us 50% even though it means nothing.

If you change that value one of two things could happen. It could add an additional level of brightness to the dynamic values that the display would normally change. Or it could simply select a static value based on what you changed it to. The second option there is what you would want to avoid at all costs. That would make the Dynamic DV content static. I am not sure what option Vizio choose to do. Neither of them are good in my opinion.

Don't change the settings with DV HDR. You are only going to make it worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #18,858
Yes, the GR is unique to each display model. The GR is the translator mechanism by which DV masters are mapped to the unique capability of each display, accurately displaying absolute color when within the gamut and mapping properly when outside.

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Discussion Starter #18,859 (Edited)
It is important to realize that the "50%" value for backlight while playing DV is absolutely meaningless. The display is in control of the backlight with DV content and the "Calibrated" or "Calibrated" dark profile. The display is controlling the backlight dynamically as the content plays but they have to show us some value for backlight so they show us 50% even though it means nothing.

If you change that value one of two things could happen. It could add an additional level of brightness to the dynamic values that the display would normally change. Or it could simply select a static value based on what you changed it to. The second option there is what you would want to avoid at all costs. That would make the Dynamic DV content static. I am not sure what option Vizio choose to do. Neither of them are good in my opinion.

Don't change the settings with DV HDR. You are only going to make it worse.
This is correct as well in regards to what 50% means... it's just a placeholder and it isn't really 50%. It uses dynamic backlight based on the master.

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