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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, somebody had to start this!



My first question is who out there is using Wyred 4 Sound MC amps? What do you think of them? Please submit your W4S amp impressions here and let me know what else you have compared it too.


Secondly, does W4S have an upgrade path, in other words, if I purchase a 500x3 250x4 amp can I send it back to W4S to have it upgraded to a full 500x7 when I upgrade my rear speakers?
 

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I'm using a Wyred4Sound MC500 amplifier.



The Wyred amplifier sounds awesome. My past experience involves three A/V receivers, two Harmon Kardon units, a Marantz SR8001, and an Adcom GFA 7605.


While shopping for an amplifier, I was considering amplifiers from Sunfire, D-Sonic, Parasound, and Wyred4sound. Before the purchase, I was only able to audition the Sunfire and Parasound amplifiers, which both sound fantastic. Even though the Sunfire was boasting 400watts, and the Parasound had 250watts, I wanted more, something like 500watts. I ultimately decided to take a chance and purchase the Wyred unit. This decision was based on company reputation, build quality, power modules, dual IEC's, upgradable to 7-channels when desired, enough power to drive whatever speakers I have now or in the future, emails, Wyred's customer service, and my best attempt at research without using my own ears. I made the right decision.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I truly believe I have purchased my last amplifier.


Yes, W4S has an upgrade path, which is one of the reasons I purchased their amplifier over Sunfire, Parasound, and to a lesser degree, D-Sonic. Talk to EJ, he can manufacture an amp to your specific desires.


Mike
 

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Funny how the net makes one's pockets lighter, I ran across some threads on speakers, then it led to a potential upgrade of my receiver, which led to the interest of separates, all of a sudden I'm reading about Emotiva, Rotel, Sunfire, Adcom, Gemstone, Bryston, Anthem, and here I am looking at W4S and D-Sonics. I was just comparing speakers.



Would like to hear more W4S owner opinions too.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mather /forum/post/13345164


Funny how the net makes one's pockets lighter, I ran across some threads on speakers, then it led to a potential upgrade of my receiver, which led to the interest of separates, all of a sudden I'm reading about Emotiva, Rotel, Sunfire, Adcom, Gemstone, Bryston, Anthem, and here I am looking at W4S and D-Sonics. I was just comparing speakers.



Would like to hear more W4S owner opinions too.

Yes, last year I was jut wanting a new receiver with HDMI and HBR audio. I got a Onkyo 905, swapped that for a Denon 3808, and now looking at new speakers, amp, etc... it's a vicious cycle!


I do agree the W4S do look like quality amps, and I can see them lasting many, many years.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdrcr /forum/post/13343554


I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I truly believe I have purchased my last amplifier.


Mike

Can you describe any audio quality differences between the various amps? How is the W4S better..just more power? sweeter? smoother?
 

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^^^^

I find it hard to put what I hear, into words, regarding the differences between amplifiers or components. However, I have been extremely happy with the sound of the W4S amplifier, it is much more musical than the Adcom, Marantz, and previous H/K's it replaced. It would be accurate to describe the W4S sound as dynamic, smooth, lively, and extremely detailed. It has been said, that my Silverline speakers really sound great with a tube amplifier because they can be a bit bright with a solid-state amplifier. I can tell you that my speakers do not sound bright at all, in fact they are incredibly smooth in their reproduction of music. I would definitely credit the W4S amplifier in that respect.


After hours of listening, even at high volume levels, I never feel fatigued. If I had the time, I could continue to listen to music throughout the night and into the next morning.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdrcr /forum/post/13345490


^^^^

I find it hard to put what I hear, into words, regarding the differences between amplifiers or components. However, I have been extremely happy with the sound of the W4S amplifier, it is much more musical than the Adcom, Marantz, and previous H/K's it replaced. It would be accurate to describe the W4S sound as dynamic, smooth, lively, and extremely detailed. It has been said, that my Silverline speakers really sound great with a tube amplifier because they can be a bit bright with a solid-state amplifier. I can tell you that my speakers do not sound bright at all, in fact they are incredibly smooth in their reproduction of music. I would definitely credit the W4S amplifier in that respect.


After hours of listening, even at high volume levels, I never feel fatigued. If I had the time, I could continue to listen to music throughout the night and into the next morning.


Mike
Have you heard any other class-D amps to compare?
 

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I've got a PS Audio GCA MC amp that Wyred modified for me because he didn't have his chassis' in yet but had a blemished PS unit on hand. It has three 1000ASP's and four 250ASP's. I'm not sure what EJ did to it beyond either modifying the Gain Cells or removing them - I wasn't really concerned with that at the time. I was just happy to find a decent MC amp with ICEpower modules at a price I could afford. This was my second go around with ICE amps my first being some DIY monoblocks I bought from Denmark. I fell in love with ICE at that point.


I would catergorize these amps as the most "natural" sounding amps I've owned. Voices and instruments have that "organic" sound with the right amount of resonance and decay. There's never any electronic sheen unless it's in the material. The beauty is it does so while conveying a sense of effortless and unlimited power.


As a point of reference other amps I've owned; Anthem PVA5, PS Audio HCA-2's (three of them) and the NAD Master Series M25 and really they were all very good, plus the amps in HK AVR8000 and Yamaha RX-Z9 - the only two receivers with amps good enough to be mentioned in the same context.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne /forum/post/13346312


As a point of reference other amps I've owned; Anthem PVA5, PS Audio HCA-2's (three of them) and the NAD Master Series M25 and really they were all very good, plus the amps in HK AVR8000 and Yamaha RX-Z9 - the only two receivers with amps good enough to be mentioned in the same context.

I was looking at the M25 as well, but was really leaning towards ICEpower. Pretty big difference between the M25 and your W4S?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phastlane /forum/post/13342548


OK, somebody had to start this!



My first question is who out there is using Wyred 4 Sound MC amps? What do you think of them? Please submit your W4S amp impressions here and let me know what else you have compared it too.


Secondly, does W4S have an upgrade path, in other words, if I purchase a 500x3 250x4 amp can I send it back to W4S to have it upgraded to a full 500x7 when I upgrade my rear speakers?

First I would like to thank everyone for their input on this forum.


As for the upgrade path, we would definitely add modules at a later date for the same price they would be found for from the beginning. For example, if I bought a 500W x 5ch, and later decided to upgrade to 7 channels, I would pay $1,100 for the additional channels. This would be the difference in the retail cost of both units.


We will have to do a case by case charge on units which the customer would like to upgrade current channels because they were pre-existing. All of the components are there, and all we have to do is supply the new module, however, there will be the old module to take out. We would then offer a credit for the module that was taken out based on the age and condition of the unit. We would later use the removed modules to produce a refurbished unit to sell at a discount. The cost to change the channels to different power levels would be much less than installing new ones (when the channel wasn’t previously installed).


What are your thoughts, does that sound fair?



EJ Sarmento
[email protected]
www.wyred4sound.com
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WYRED 4 SOUND /forum/post/13346722


First I would like to thank everyone for their input on this forum.


As for the upgrade path, we would definitely add modules at a later date for the same price they would be found for from the beginning. For example, if I bought a 500W x 5ch, and later decided to upgrade to 7 channels, I would pay $1,100 for the additional channels. This would be the difference in the retail cost of both units.


We will have to do a case by case charge on units which the customer would like to upgrade current channels because they were pre-existing. All of the components are there, and all we have to do is supply the new module, however, there will be the old module to take out. We would then offer a credit for the module that was taken out based on the age and condition of the unit. We would later use the removed modules to produce a refurbished unit to sell at a discount. The cost to change the channels to different power levels would be much less than installing new ones (when the channel wasn't previously installed).


What are your thoughts, does that sound fair?



EJ Sarmento
[email protected]
www.wyred4sound.com

Sounds very fair to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yngdiego /forum/post/13346634


I was looking at the M25 as well, but was really leaning towards ICEpower. Pretty big difference between the M25 and your W4S?

No not that much really, maybe a hair more bass control with the ICE, but I never did a true A/B test so I'm going by memory. The M25 had a fan in it that I didn't like, it got a bit loud - not enough that you could notice it during quiet passages but enough that you could hear it when nothing was playing when it engaged, still an exellent amp though.


To be fair though, I'm of the school that the differences between two well desgined amps with suitable power to do the job required should sound more alike than different if they are doing their job properly. If an amp colors the signal then it's either detracting or adding which IMO is not desired. This is the component that should have the least impact on the final result.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne /forum/post/13347282


Sounds very fair to me.

+1
 

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Cool amps. I was looking at the eclipse car amp that have the ice power for my honda insight (low current draw is a good thing).


These are great amps modules. I am glad to see real high efficiency amps for the home.

.

This is a cool line you can buy an extra 6+db of headroom



I was looking at the amps and they seem to have a pretty high idle draw. 4.1w a channel (I assume this is worse case)? Is there a remote turn on/off feature?


My math is a little fuzzy but what is worst case draw for the 500wx7?

With class a/b this would be something like 30-40 amps right? And with ice?


Could you get these things energy star rated
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yngdiego /forum/post/13345498

Have you heard any other class-D amps to compare?

No, they were all too expensive.



At least, all the other class-D amps that are sold in my local audio dealers. However, I would love to compare them to the W4S unit.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WYRED 4 SOUND /forum/post/13346722


What are your thoughts, does that sound fair?



EJ Sarmento
[email protected]
www.wyred4sound.com

Sounds very fair to me too! +3


In addition, all the talk about the D-Sonic vs. W4S has me a little confused with all the "upgrades" that have been discussed. I was hoping that you might outline the differences between my amplifier (MC500) and the comparable D-Sonic.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne /forum/post/13346312


I would catergorize these amps as the most "natural" sounding amps I've owned. Voices and instruments have that "organic" sound with the right amount of resonance and decay. There's never any electronic sheen unless it's in the material. The beauty is it does so while conveying a sense of effortless and unlimited power.

"Natual"....that was a word I was searching for! Very well said, I fully agree!


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rdrcr /forum/post/13349750


Sounds very fair to me too! +3


In addition, all the talk about the D-Sonic vs. W4S has me a little confused with all the "upgrades" that have been discussed. I was hoping that you might outline the differences between my amplifier (MC500) and the comparable D-Sonic.


Mike

There are many sonic differences between our amplifier and the D-SONIC. The main reasons are held within our direct-coupled, balanced, dual FET input stage (input buffer). Not only does this raise the input impedance to 61.9K ohms which allows source equipment to easily and accurately drive the amplifier.


The standard ICE modules which are found in the D-SONIC amplifiers have 8K ohms on the positive input and 10K ohms on the negative input to the ICE amp. So if you’re using RCA’s for instance, your source would be driving an 8,000 ohm load which isn’t really bad, but much harder to drive than 61.9K ohms. The lower impedance your source has to drive, the more you will experience lower volume levels, and slightly higher distortion going into your amplifier. This normally changes the way a preamp can amplify the signal applied, thus giving you less than optimal sound.


Balanced amplifiers (differential, driven from + and – signals) have a much better performance when driven balanced, which ours does. All the parts you will find on our input buffer are of the best quality. We use Dale Rn55D copper leaded resistors, Wima, and MUSE audio grade capacitors, and a thick traced PCB to connect everything. Audio signal doesn’t sound as good through standard magnetic steel leaded resistors, and electrolytic capacitors.


Inside the FETs on all of our input buffers, there is a voltage to current conversion. This is where we get the sweeter sound. The way a FET works is the current that flows from the output (the drain to source current) is controlled by the voltage on the input (the gate). This has a softening effect that complements the slight brightness and edgy sound of the Class D amplifier. It tends to make everything softer, smoother, and accurate. Given that the function of the amplifier, our input stage (buffer) has unity gain (no gain produced), and is ultra transparent.


We also perform modifications to the modules in every amplifier to enhance its’ performance. We bypass critical input coupling caps to allow audio to freely flow through while still allowing for DC protection, and “beef-up” the servo (feedback) circuit for enhanced bottom-end extension. Every module is connected to the binding posts with 14AWG 99.9% OFC high strand pure copper paralleled with 14AWG high strand PURE silver wire.


One of my favorite benefits with this amplifier is the sound stage, and AWSOME imaging. If the imaging is correct, you should be able to listen to your speakers R/L, and not hear each one as being separate. Instead, they should blend together and sound like one, half way between the two. Sound stage depths are also much more prominent. You should be able to hear differences vertically, horizontally, and even depth (front to back). Your speakers would obviously have to be able to produce these as well, but nearly all hi-end loudspeakers should be able to produce such results.


Another option that our amplifier has over ALL the competition is the built in active crossovers. A good read for FYI knowledge would be http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm . This would mainly be used for the purpose of using our amplifier in a Bi-amp or Tri-amp set-up, which GREATLY improves sound quality. NO OTHER AMPLIFIER OFFERS THIS FEATURE, to my knowledge.


There many benefits on using our built-in active crossovers from passive crossovers, even on speakers that already have built-in crossovers. Unfortunately, I must post that in another post to keep this one from taking the complete page.


EJ Sarmento
[email protected]
www.wyred4sound.com
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WYRED 4 SOUND /forum/post/13357225


Another option that our amplifier has over ALL the competition is the built in active crossovers. A good read for FYI knowledge would be http://sound.westhost.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm . This would mainly be used for the purpose of using our amplifier in a Bi-amp or Tri-amp set-up, which GREATLY improves sound quality. NO OTHER AMPLIFIER OFFERS THIS FEATURE, to my knowledge.


There many benefits on using our built-in active crossovers from passive crossovers, even on speakes that already have built-in crossovers. Unfortuantely, I must post that in another post to keep this one from taking the complete page.


EJ Sarmento
[email protected]
www.wyred4sound.com


EJ, thanks for the great information. People might laugh at me, but if I wanted to bi-amp the L/R channels in a 5.1 setup I'm assuming I'd need seven power modules? I've always thought of bi-amping as some geeky tweak that didn't really do much for sound. Given your description of the difference, I take it with good speakers it's noticeable? I'm looking at Paradigm S4/C3 combo for the front sound stage.


Any additional information you can give us on the innards of W4S would be appreciated..always good to know where the extra $$ are going so we can judge whether it's worth it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yngdiego /forum/post/13357284


I've always thought of bi-amping as some geeky tweak that didn't really do much for sound. Given your description of the difference, I take it with good speakers it's noticeable?

You better hold on a second before you get all excited about what he says in regards to bi-amping speakers. He is talking about active bi-amping, and not the more common and easier to do as well as less effective passsive bi-amping that most people are familiar with. I hope you also realize that the active bi-amping example he links to, also would require you to either remove or to completely disconnect the existing crossover network from the speaker drivers that is inside the speakers to work in that manner. A simple removing just the jumper bars on the back of the speaker input terminals won't do it!
 
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