[formulanerd]

ok, some of these are my opinion, some are the opinions of others. this list is NOT definitive. please help me add to this list. Post the game title, your opinion, your display resolution and cable type used.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

V-sync Enabled


- Battlefield 2: Modern Combat

- Burnout Revenge

- Call of Duty 2

- Call of Duty 3

- Condemned

- Dead or Alive 4

- Dead Rising* (Possibly Dynamic)

- Enchanted Arms**

- Far Cry Instincts: Predator

- F.E.A.R.

- Fight Night 3

- Hitman

- Kameo

- King Kong

- Madden 2006

- Madden 2007

- MLB 2k7

- NHL 2K6

- NHL 07

- Oblivion

- Phantasy Star Universe

- Prey

- Project Gotham Racing 3

- Ridge Racer 6

- Saints Row***

- Table Tennis

- Tomb Raider: Legend

- Viva Pinata


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dynamic V-sync (framerate dependent)


- Gears of War

- Lost Planet

- Rainbow 6: Vegas****

- Splinter Cell: Double Agent


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO V-sync (unless recently patched)


- Blazing Angels

- Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 1

- Moto GP 2006

- Need for Speed Most Wanted

- Perfect Dark Zero

- Top Spin 2


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SEEM TO HAVE V-SYNC ENABLED, need more opinions


- Amped3

- Just Cause

- Tony Hawk American Wasteland



*******************Exceptions/Comments***********************


* V-sync is fully functional via component, and VGA at ATSC Standard resolutions, No V-sync when using NON-ATSC standard resolutions via VGA


** some possible tearing, though i havent seen it. opinions welcomed.


*** after XBL Patch, players choice to enable and risk slow framerates


**** I personally think it's adaptive, others tend to think there is no v-sync enabled.

 

[Category 5]

Perhaps this could be a sticky. I personally choose to not purchase a game that has v-sync disabled. ON such a powerful machine tearing is unforgiveable.

 

[ogbuehi]

Who does this V-sync thing affect?

 

[kylebisme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 /forum/post/0


Perhaps this could be a sticky. I personally choose to not purchase a game that has v-sync disabled. ON such a powerful machine tearing is unforgiveable.

Then you want vsync enabled, not dissabled.


Also, Gears of War and Dead Rising are in the wrong list as they both loose vsync when the framerate drops.

 

[formulanerd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ogbuehi /forum/post/0


Who does this V-sync thing affect?

v-sync affects everyone, check out the wiki on tearing if you're not sure exactly what it is. with v-sync disabled the frames arent sync'd vertically, and there is a "tearing" effect on the display.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Page_tearing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_synchronization


this doesnt matter if you're in 480i on a crt, or 1080p on an LCD, it's a factor both ways. and you want v-sync enabled (IF the framerates dont suffer too much).


the problem is that with v-sync enabled, you get decrease framerates, and with v-sync enabled, in theory, the max framerate is about 85 fps on any machine. the average framerate with v-sync on 360 is about 30fps, some people would rather have 30fps and no tearing than 60fps with tearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme /forum/post/0


Then you want vsync enabled, not dissabled.


Also, Gears of War and Dead Rising are in the wrong list as they both loose vsync when the framerate drops.

i left those with "adaptive v-sync" in the enabled list, i dont know what the true term is, but yes as you have said, when framerates suffer, v-sync is temporarily disabled


edit:


made another section for "adaptive v-sync"


and for someone with dead rising, did you have horrible v-sync issues after the fall 1080p update? and if so, is it fixed?

 

[formulanerd]

hopefully we can get more opinions on games and get a complete list and maybe a sticky.


i'm not at the position where i wont buy a non-vsync game, but i would like to know before i buy.

 

[Category 5]

It is a misconception that vsync locks you into 30 or 60fps. Adaptive framerates allow the framerate to cycle so that fps remains as high as possible, so long that a new frame does not begin to display until it has been completely rendered. All vsync does is hold the frame until the beginning of the next scan that occurs once the frame is drawn.


Also, adaptive engines can enable vsync, and disable it below a fps threshold like Gears of War does. I like this approach. Usually you don't see the tearing. If the screen becoms filled with enemies you get a few tears instead of dropping below 20fps. Resistance does this on the PS3 too (despite it being popularly touted as having NO tearing).


When I first saw tearing on my PC a few years ago I thought something was wrong with my PC or monitor. It really bothered me and still does.

 

[vpn75]

Anyone else noticed some tearing in R6:Vegas SP? It's not terrible, but I wasn't expecting to see it in that game. I was also surprised to see some instances of tearing in Gears of War, but it is fairly minimal and can be overlooked with the game's otherwise excellent graphics.


I haven't noticed any tearing in Oblivion yet which is certainly impressive. The framerate is not that stable though, but for an RPG is certainly tolerable.

 

[Bertil]

RB6 does not have v-sync

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertil /forum/post/0


RB6 does not have v-sync

RB6 has terrible tearing, it's my most played game and I hate it for that.


I'll go through my games and compare them to the list, I'm impressed you made a list, I was half joking when I recommended it.


A next-gen game without v-sync is not a next-gen game IMO.


edit: triple buffering allows flexibility in frame rates for v-sync.. I've never heard of adaptive v-sync.

 

[ferrisg]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


edit: triple buffering allows flexibility in frame rates for v-sync.. I've never heard of adaptive v-sync.

Epic explained this somewhere. . .They have Vsync turned on so long as they can hit 30 fps. If they can't hit 30 fps then they turn Vsync off for all frames that require longer than ~33ms to render.


I never noticed tearing in Top Spin 2. How did you determine it doesn't have Vsync enable?

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisg /forum/post/0


Epic explained this somewhere. . .They have Vsync turned on so long as they can hit 30 fps. If they can't hit 30 fps then they turn Vsync off for all frames that require longer than ~33ms to render.


I never noticed tearing in Top Spin 2. How did you determine it doesn't have Vsync enable?

Best way is to pan the camera left to right and look for tearing in the image.


COD3 has vsync, just verified

F.E.A.R. has vsync

Just Cause appears to have vsync, and looks great I must say

Lost Planet has vsync

Phantasy Star Universe has vsync

Pretty sure DOA4 has vsync

 

[delrmx01]

For the untrained eye -- what does it look like?

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by delrmx01 /forum/post/0


For the untrained eye -- what does it look like?

I'm sure the wiki link above can explain better than I can but here goes..

The frame being displayed is changed while its being rendered on screen, and the point at which it was updating (screen updates from left to right, line by line, from top to bottom) shows the differences between the frames. Imagine two photos taken at slightly different times lain on top of one another at a certain horizontal line. Ack, even i didn't understand that, read the wiki page.

 

[ferrisg]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


Best way is to pan the camera left to right and look for tearing in the image.


COD3 has vsync, just verified

F.E.A.R. has vsync

Just Cause appears to have vsync, and looks great I must say

Lost Planet has vsync

Phantasy Star Universe has vsync

Pretty sure DOA4 has vsync

That was why I asked the question for Top Spin. It doesn't really have a way to pan the camera. It occasionally pans in the closeups after a point is scored, but I've never noticed tearing there.

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisg /forum/post/0


That was why I asked the question for Top Spin. It doesn't really have a way to pan the camera. It occasionally pans in the closeups after a point is scored, but I've never noticed tearing there.

You would think a game like top spin wouldn't have framerate problems, and therefore would have no reason not to enable vsync, but I personally don't have the game so can't really weigh in.

 

[formulanerd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 /forum/post/0


It is a misconception that vsync locks you into 30 or 60fps.

my mistake was, in my expirience with the 360, and v-sync enabled, typically you're gonna have lower framerates (closer to 30, rather than 60) i didnt mean to imply that you're "locked in" at a certain framerate, but i'd like to note that i've read that with v-sync enabled on ANY machine, max framerate is about 85fps. someone with a pc and a game that can run 200-300fps should test the framerate with v-sync enabled, i'm curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vpn75 /forum/post/0


Anyone else noticed some tearing in R6:Vegas SP? It's not terrible, but I wasn't expecting to see it in that game. I was also surprised to see some instances of tearing in Gears of War, but it is fairly minimal and can be overlooked with the game's otherwise excellent graphics.


I haven't noticed any tearing in Oblivion yet which is certainly impressive. The framerate is not that stable though, but for an RPG is certainly tolerable.

i think rb6 is adaptive, sometiimes there is tearing, in areas where i would think there would be a framerate drop (lots of action, etc)


and oblivion has v-sync, was one of the first titles with it (thank you bethesda) that's why you see some slow framerates at times (nothing too horrible, thankfully) because it isnt "adaptive"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertil /forum/post/0


RB6 does not have v-sync

Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


RB6 has terrible tearing, it's my most played game and I hate it for that.


I'll go through my games and compare them to the list, I'm impressed you made a list, I was half joking when I recommended it.


A next-gen game without v-sync is not a next-gen game IMO.


edit: triple buffering allows flexibility in frame rates for v-sync.. I've never heard of adaptive v-sync.

just my opinion, but i think it's adaptive....

Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


You would think a game like top spin wouldn't have framerate problems, and therefore would have no reason not to enable vsync, but I personally don't have the game so can't really weigh in.

i dont think v-sync was a priority in most of the "1st gen" titles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delrmx01 /forum/post/0


For the untrained eye -- what does it look like?

usually i'm 100% for learning and looking into new things, but on this one, if you dont know what tearing is, you're lucky it doesnt bother you, some people really dont care or dont notice, but it's one of those things that if you notice, it bugs the crap out of you, like a vertical band on your lcd, etc. if your eye is untrained in "negative" things, i'd try as much as possible not to dwell in things like this.

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by formulanerd /forum/post/0


my mistake was, in my expirience with the 360, and v-sync enabled, typically you're gonna have lower framerates (closer to 30, rather than 60) i didnt mean to imply that you're "locked in" at a certain framerate, but i'd like to note that i've read that with v-sync enabled on ANY machine, max framerate is about 85fps. someone with a pc and a game that can run 200-300fps should test the framerate with v-sync enabled, i'm curious.



i think rb6 is adaptive, sometiimes there is tearing, in areas where i would think there would be a framerate drop (lots of action, etc.

I've never gotten RB6 to give me a decent frame rate, let alone stop tearing.


back buffering caps your framerate at the monitor refresh rate; if you render more frames than it can display it would have to cause tearing to display them all, right? it merely updates the frame on screen, with one from a back buffer (1 for double or two for triple) when the display device screen refreshes.


With double buffering you must double the displayed fps to keep the back buffer full, with triple you need only a 50% fps increase since there are two back buffers.


So, to display 60 fps you need to render 90 fps with triple buffering. Or 45 for 30


Also, ALL ntsc lcd panels are 60hz, so anything over 60fps is useless on an lcd anyway.


edit: highest crt refresh is 85hz so that may be where you get the fps cap from.


Also, its debatable whether the human eye can detect over 60 changes per second, let alone 200-300, why would anyone need or want that high a framerate?


oh, vsync=back buffering


Edit yet again: found this quote, made me chuckle


'I spoke to Tim Sweeney, from Epic Games, to get a prospective of the Direct3D side. However his response, while not technical in nature, really got at the heart of the matter.


"I don't have any clue why someone would disable VSync for gameplay. The only legit reason for this is to benchmark 3D card performance without the monitor's refresh rate skewing the results. Regarding a 'philosophical VSync difference between Direct3D and OpenGL', that's nutty. There is no visual benefit to having a game render more frames per second than your monitor is displaying."'

http://www.d-silence.com/feature.php?id=255

 

[kylebisme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


Lost Planet has vsync

Nah, Lost Plaent looses vsync quite a bit in heavy action

Quote:
Originally Posted by delrmx01 /forum/post/0


For the untrained eye -- what does it look like?

First off, note formulanerd's warning as this is a case were ignorance truely is bliss.


Now, if you still want to know, just watch a game that doesn't keep vsync and look for a spot where the top portion of the image is disjointed from what is displayed on the lower portion of the screen. PDZ shows many obvious examples , I attached this framerab showing an instacnce of tearing early in the "New Levels HD" video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


You would think a game like top spin wouldn't have framerate problems, and therefore would have no reason not to enable vsync, but I personally don't have the game so can't really weigh in.

Actually, high framerate leads to much more tearing as you can wind up with multiple frame swaps during a single refresh. Try an old PC game like Quake3 or whatever on modern PC where you can get like 300+ fps and without vsync you'll see mad tearing all over the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coburn_c /forum/post/0


back buffering caps your framerate at the monitor refresh rate; if you render more frames than it can display it would have to cause tearing to display them all, right? it merely updates the frame on screen, with one from a back buffer (1 for double or two for triple) when the display device screen refreshes.


With double buffering you must double the displayed fps to keep the back buffer full, with triple you need only a 50% fps increase since there are two back buffers.


So, to display 60 fps you need to render 90 fps with triple buffering. Or 45 for 30


Also, ALL ntsc lcd panels are 60hz, so anything over 60fps is useless on an lcd anyway.


edit: highest crt refresh is 85hz so that may be where you get the fps cap from.

Nah, your way off on all of that, but a firend just stopped by so I don't have time to go though it all at the moment. I'll drop by latter set the record straight though if someone doesn't beat me to it.

 

[coburn_c]



Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme /forum/post/0


Actually, high framerate leads to much more tearing as you can wind up with multiple frame swaps during a single refresh. Try an old PC game like Quake3 or whatever on modern PC where you can get like 300+ fps and without vsync you'll see mad tearing all over the place.


Nah, your way off on all of that, but a firend just stopped by so I don't have time to go though it all at the moment. I'll drop by latter set the record straight though if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Which is what i just said, vsync and monitor refresh whatnot...


way off on what?



because ntsc lcd panels update a fixed image at 60 refreshes a second, and thats 60hz


vsync DOES cap the frame rate at the refresh of the monitor, and it DOES use back buffers. The only thing i could possibly be wrong on is the # of frames required.


lets all do some reading.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593


So if its rendering 60 it displays 60 but if it drops to 59.9 it displays 30 with double.. you know what i give up.