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eARC is between the TV and the Sound device (AVR, AVP, Soundbar or Soundbase).

Just as with ARC the key will be which formats the TV HDMI Inputs passthrough to the Sound device via the eARC port.

There are now billions of HDMI Plugs/sockets out in the wild - the physical ‘connector/connection’ is the least of your worries when you have HDCP, CEC, EDID and ARC to contend with.

Joe


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eARC is used for more than sending the sound back from TV to the AVR/Soundbar, eARC is used also for Discovery and Audio EDID (instead of CEC) so, eARC is important even at the source level (Blu-ray, media players, streamers, etc.), not only at the TV or AVR/soundbar level!

HDMI eARC is not equal to HDMI ARC!!!

HDMI eARC merges 3 features in 1 data channel:
- device discovery
- audio EDID
- lip sync correction

eARC resolves a fundamental problem that was in the past relegated to HDMI CEC - and we know how all of this ended up, a mess.

That's why eARC is important to be present all the way in the HDMI chain of devices, from source to TV and back to AVR/soundbar.
 

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I do not see any reference in that chart that shows it's only about between TV and AVR...
Soooo, if you hook up the blu-ray player to the TV, the TV will wait until you will select the sound track and the format of that sound track, no? No talk between the player and the TV, huh? Maybe the TV does not know DTS, maybe does not support Dolby Atmos.... BUT YOU WILL SELECT THEM! Right....
No, the TV tells the player what formats it accepts. This is not done with CEC - you can turn off CEC and it still works.

An eARC enabled TV will accept more audio formats (ideally the same ones that AVRs accept), and either decode them or pass them through unmodified if an eARC AVR is connected. This doesn't require any changes to source devices.

SPDIF is obsolete (no HD audio/lossless/3D sound) and will be maintained along analog inputs/outputs. In time it will disappear.
And be replaced by...?
 

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I’m not all that concerned about 48Gbps interconnect, but there’s no way I’d jump to a new AVR without VRR support as well as eARC. I guess it’s a good thing I’m not in the market in the immediate future.
 

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No, the TV tells the player what formats it accepts. This is not done with CEC - you can turn off CEC and it still works.
Yes, it is done by CEC!
CEC does more than sending around some commands from TV to connected devices...
If you look at the attached graphic, you can see that on HDMI 2.0 and lower versions the CEC bus is used for many things, such as:
- device discovery (handshaking - this does not work all the time - the original sin of CEC...)
- audio EDID (devices know each other their format capabilities)

An eARC enabled TV will accept more audio formats (ideally the same ones that AVRs accept), and either decode them or pass them through unmodified if an eARC AVR is connected. This doesn't require any changes to source devices.
As I said in previous posts, HDMI eARC is not equal to HDMI ARC!!!

HDMI eARC merges 3 features in 1 data channel:
- device discovery
- audio EDID
- lip sync correction

eARC resolves a fundamental problem that was in the past relegated to HDMI CEC.

eARC is used for more than returning the audio from the TV to the AVR/soundbar.

That's why eARC is important to be present all the way in the HDMI chain of devices, from source to TV and back to AVR/soundbar.

But if the source does not support eARC, the functions that are managed by eARC are relegated to the classic CEC bus, with all the inherent flaws...
 

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Yes, it is done by CEC!
CEC does more than sending around some commands from TV to connected devices...
If you look at the attached graphic, you can see that on HDMI 2.0 and lower versions the CEC bus is used for many things, such as:
- device discovery (handshaking - this does not work all the time - the original sin of CEC...)
- audio EDID (devices know each other their format capabilities)
EDID is carried by the DDC (Display Data Channel) which is completely separate from CEC.

CEC is optional. For example, I'm not aware of any computer graphics cards that support CEC. So TVs can't "discover" computers, but they don't need to, because they aren't sending anything out, they're only receiving. And the computer knows what video and audio formats the TV can accept (via DDC).

eARC doesn't change how this works. It only changes how audio gets from a TV to an AVR. For automatic configuration, it's desirable that the TV be able to "see" the AVR and what audio formats the AVR supports. That's what your chart is about.
 

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A quote from your posted document:
"With eARC, however, the use of CEC is optional." - proof that eARC does not need HDMI CEC to be functional (enabled), and that eARC is used for functions that now are relegated to HDMI CEC.

More proof:
"One frequent question: If eARC’s design overcomes some problems of CEC, then why does eARC rely on CEC for automating user remote control commands? This is because the eARC data channel supports only “invisible” operations, such as discovering and setting up the eARC link, determining formats, and lip sync."

I suspect eARC could be just as much of a minefield as ARC!
Let's hope not!

EDID is carried by the DDC (Display Data Channel) which is completely separate from CEC.
You are confounding the video EDID with the audio EDID.
The video EDID is carried by the DDC.
The audio EDID is carried by the CEC bus and now by the eARC channel. CEC has become optional, only for legacy devices (HDMI 2.0 and lower, with no HDMI 2.1 features added)

For example, I'm not aware of any computer graphics cards that support CEC. So TVs can't "discover" computers, but they don't need to, because they aren't sending anything out, they're only receiving. And the computer knows what video and audio formats the TV can accept (via DDC).
The PC graphic card has no need of CEC because the "audio handshake" is done by the PC user, by selecting in the OS UI the audio path (analog external - default, S/PDIF over HDMI.
But on Consumer Electronics such as blu-ray players the "audio handshake" is done by audio EDID, carried by the CEC bus, that it is integrated in majority of Consumer Electronics.


eARC doesn't change how this works. It only changes how audio gets from a TV to an AVR. For automatic configuration, it's desirable that the TV be able to "see" the AVR and what audio formats the AVR supports. That's what your chart is about.
Ohhh...but yes, eARC changes everything!

Let's quote again from the posted document about eARC:
"The improved compatibility (of eARC - my note) comes about firstly because video doesn’t flow through the AVR, and because the discovery mechanism of eARC is brand-new and dedicated specifically to audio devices and format discovery"
 

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You are confounding the video EDID with the audio EDID.
The video EDID is carried by the DDC.
The audio EDID is carried by the CEC bus and now by the eARC channel. CEC has become optional, only for legacy devices (HDMI 2.0 and lower, with no HDMI 2.1 features added)
Video and audio info is both sent over DDC. Not CEC (except for ARC).

Also, eARC doesn't attempt to replace CEC. It's just that eARC doesn't use CEC for eARC functions; it's self-contained.

The PC graphic card has no need of CEC because the "audio handshake" is done by the PC user, by selecting in the OS UI the audio path (analog external - default, S/PDIF over HDMI.
But on Consumer Electronics such as blu-ray players the "audio handshake" is done by audio EDID, carried by the CEC bus, that it is integrated in majority of Consumer Electronics.
They both get the audio info via DDC.

Let's quote again from the posted document about eARC:
"The improved compatibility (of eARC - my note) comes about firstly because video doesn’t flow through the AVR, and because the discovery mechanism of eARC is brand-new and dedicated specifically to audio devices and format discovery"
Yes, eARC discovery is done via eARC. That only affects eARC devices (TVs and AVRs).
 

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:) When the first blu-ray players, media players, streamers, etc. will appear on the market with HDMI 2.1 features added to them you will see that eARC has other uses beyond carrying the sound from TV to the AVR/soundbar.
And the symptoms of that will be that the HDMI handshaking that plagued the interface now and in the past will evaporate.
 

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"Official" Yamaha RX-V*85/TSR-*850 Owners Thread

Welcome to the dedicated owners' and future owners' thread for the 2018 Yamaha entry level RX-V line of AVRs (and Costco variants).




Announcements


Discussions

Product pages



Manual download library

New manuals available:
Bluetooth transmissions functions (corrected)
MusicCast Surround Speakers functions (corrected)

Firmware update news:


RX-V385/HTR-3072 Firmware Update Ver.1.06 May 28, 2019 (support eARC function)(WARNING: users are reporting issues with this update, update only if you need these features)
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/rx-v385_htr-3072.html

RX-V485/HTR-4072/RX-D485 Firmware Update Ver.1.45 Sept 20, 2018
RX-V485/HTR-4072/RX-D485 Firmware Update Ver.1.48 Oct 30, 2018 (support for Bluetooth output, MusicCast Surround fixes)
RX-V485/HTR-4072/RX-D485 Firmware Update Ver.1.49 Nov 7, 2018 ("stability improvement")
RX-V485/HTR-4072/RX-D485 Firmware Update Ver.1.61 May 28, 2019 (Airplay2, Spotify Free, eARC, Qobuz)(WARNING: users are reporting issues with this update, update only if you need these features)
RX-V485/HTR-4072/RX-D485 Firmware Update Ver.1.65 December 10, 2019 Amazon Music, enhanced Alexa Voice Control
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/rx-v485_htr-4072_rx-d485_firm.html

RX-V585/HTR-5072/RX-A680 Firmware Update Ver.1.45 Sept 20, 2018
RX-V585/HTR-5072/RX-A680 Firmware Update Ver.1.48 Oct 30, 2018 (support for Bluetooth output, MusicCast Surround fixes)
RX-V585/HTR-5072/RX-A680 Firmware Update Ver.1.49 Nov 7, 2018 ("stability improvement")
RX-V585/HTR-5072/RX-A680 Firmware Update Ver.1.61 May 28, 2019 (Airplay2, Spotify Free, eARC, Qobuz)(WARNING: users are reporting issues with this update, update only if you need these features)
RX-V585/HTR-5072/RX-A680 Firmware Update Ver.1.65 December 10, 2019 Amazon Music, enhanced Alexa Voice Control

https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/rx-v585_htr-5072_rx-a680_firm.html

RX-V685/RX-A780/RX-A880/TSR-7850 Firmware Update Ver.1.42 Sept 20, 2018
RX-V685/RX-A780/RX-A880/TSR-7850 Firmware Update Ver.1.47 Oct 30, 2018 (support for Bluetooth output, MusicCast Surround fixes)
RX-V685/RX-A780/RX-A880/TSR-7850 Firmware Update Ver.1.65 May 28, 2019 (Airplay2, Spotify Free, eARC, Qobuz)(WARNING: users are reporting issues with this update, update only if you need these features)
RX-V685/RX-A780/RX-A880/TSR-7850 Firmware Update Ver.1.72 December 10, 2019 Amazon Music, enhanced Alexa Voice Control
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/rx-v685_rx-a780_rx-a880_firm.html

RX-A1080/RX-V1085/RX-A2080/RX-V2085/RX-A3080/RX-V3085 Firmware Update Ver.1.45 Oct 10, 2018
RX-A1080/RX-V1085/RX-A2080/RX-V2085/RX-A3080/RX-V3085 Firmware Update Ver.1.47 Oct 30, 2018 (support for Bluetooth output)
RX-A1080/RX-V1085/RX-A2080/RX-V2085/RX-A3080/RX-V3085 Firmware Update Ver.1.51 Feb 5, 2019 ("stability improvement")
RX-A1080/RX-V1085/RX-A2080/RX-V2085/RX-A3080/RX-V3085 Firmware Update Ver.1.65 May 28, 2019 (Airplay2, Spotify Free, eARC, Qobuz)(WARNING: users are reporting issues with this update, update only if you need these features)
RX-A1080/RX-V1085/RX-A2080/RX-V2085/RX-A3080/RX-V3085 Firmware Update Ver.1.72 December 10, 2019 Amazon Music, enhanced Alexa Voice Control
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/rx-a1080_rx-v1085_rx-a2080_rx-v2085_rx-a3080_rx-v3085.html
 

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chrome, I really appreciate the information. You rock!
Be sure to click the "Like" link for any post that's helpful to you. :rolleyes: :cool:

Now, to answer a question you asked in PM, generally the Costco model e.g. TSR-7850 is equivalent to an RX-V785, though it may share firmware with another model like the RX-V685. In the past the TSR-5830 was an RX-V583 except in name, likewise a TSR-7830 an RX-V783. The renumbering is done to protect retailers against "price matching" with a discount store like Costco.

In the past a 700-series model has featured pre-outs that a 500-series or 600-series does not. Rear connections look identical. Though there's no manual to download for the 7850 (yet), I can see the YPAO mic plug is relocated on the 7850, and the front panel option buttons are a different style. :confused:

{EDIT} In later discussions, it's become clear that the TSR-7850 shares the cabinet dimensions, front face plate, removable power cord, and power specs with the RX-A780. It is probably NOT a "Costco version of the Aventage -7080," but clearly a great value for the price compared with the 7080's MSRP.
 

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Now, to answer a question you asked in PM, generally the Costco model e.g. TSR-7850 is equivalent to an RX-V785, though it may share firmware with another model like the RX-V685. In the past the TSR-5830 was an RX-V583 except in name, likewise a TSR-7830 an RX-V783.
that's where I had some confusion as I do not see Yamaha (currently) has a 785 in the RX line so I assumed it was closer to the 685.
weird.


at the current price point I'm still leaning towards possibly grabbing it.
 

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Hi, I'm looking around to replace my old Pioneer VSX-1015K which is by the way functioning still fine, but want to get rid of 2 cabled rear speakers which aren't actually next to the couch. Dubbing between Heos AVR, a Heos bar with extra stuff and then the Yamaha x85-series showed up. It should then definitely be the 685. Someone is also suggesting the Aventage A680. What would be a good reason to opt for that more expensive one except that it has DAB+?
 

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the Aventage series looks nice, seems to have more premium build materials for those serious audiophiles but don't know if the extra money is worth it for most basic home theater setups.
 

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Indeed nicer look. Discovered that A680 lacks component-input and I need that for my almost old skool DVD-player. Connecting it to the new tv has the 'problem' that if someone wants to connect the wii you'll have to change plugs and so, as the input on the tv is a combined AV/Component-input. The A780 seems not to be available over here and the A880 will be a bit more expensive then (about €500 more then the V685, and paying almost double for a nicer look and possibly some better components is a bit too much). The 'old' Pioneer costed about €500 inb 2005. ;-)
 

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Hi, I'm looking around to replace my old Pioneer VSX-1015K which is by the way functioning still fine, but want to get rid of 2 cabled rear speakers which aren't actually next to the couch. Dubbing between Heos AVR, a Heos bar with extra stuff and then the Yamaha x85-series showed up. It should then definitely be the 685. Someone is also suggesting the Aventage A680. What would be a good reason to opt for that more expensive one except that it has DAB+?
In general (and I do mean this is a sweeping statement), the RX-A series will perhaps have an extra foot on the bottom, longer warranty, reportedly some nicer component materials inside. Usually, a high end RX-V and RX-A will seem to have the same INs and OUTs, perhaps PRE-OUTs, speaker connections, leading to some head-scratching -- until you see the warranty difference, and find some difference in options or settings in the owners manuals.

Yamahas usually exhibit high reliability (I've never had one fail before I upgraded, every 10 years or so), so any reassurance from the extra year of warranty is a personal preference.

As you see the RX-V685, RX-A780, and -880 share the same firmware update so they may be similar, but don't presume they're identical feature-for-feature. Firmware can bundle multiple images for similar hardware, and the hardware extracts the image meant for it.

My suggestion: open the two (or three) product pages on Yamaha's site side-by-side, compare the rear panel pics, dig into the manuals perhaps, then shop around. (Why browse the manuals? The on-screen functional appearance and options could differ.)

There's a separate 2018 RX-A series owners thread if you have specific questions about the A780 or A880.

Happy hunting. :)

P.S. You haven't filled out your profile's "Location" field[1] so we don't know where "over here" is. This site is based in the US, so unless you tell us where you are, we presume that US prices and availability apply.

[1] Why not fill out more of your profile, including your current equipment. Takes only a minute. Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
 
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well, guess I'll be the guinea pig for us.
my TSR-7850 is en route to me and will hopefully be here in the next few days.
 
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