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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The great debate of whether to use laminate in below grade seems to be well discussed, but I am looking for further clarification.


Here is my situation. I am looking to laminate my entire basement, except for my laundry room. I have already purchased all of the laminate, so there is really no turning back. I have had water seeping through the foundation walls, but over the past 2 summers I have excavated and sealed the outside with BlueSkin. No longer having any water leaking through! I do believe that I still have a moisture issue, as my dehumidifier is constantly running. Humidity stays around 50%, but without dehumidifier running it would get to about 70%, maybe 75% on bad days. I also have a sump pump that goes off regularly in rainy weather.


So the plan. Plan to use Dri-core (I have researched many other options, but this seems to be the best option for me, and yes, I know it has organic material in it). So plan to use Dri-core, followed by some type of foam padding to eliminate squeeking in the floor. Then finally laminate on top of that.


First question - Should I seal the concrete with some of that roll on sealant prior to laying the dri-core? Or should I just let moisture continue to seep from underneath? After all, the Dri-core would allow the concrete to breath still, and then the dehumidifier could do it's work. thoughts?


Second question - I have read a lot of posts, and they all say don't lay laminate where there is a floor drain. That obviously makes sense. However, I would still like to. So, is it possible to just lay the floor directly over it, seeing that the dri-core would still allow access to the drain? I realize that the floor won't be level there either, so that might be a challenge anyway. The other idea I read was to laminate to within a few feet of the drain, and then tile to the drain. I'm not sure what your thoughts are about that? That might look awful, plus how would that look finished.... I can't really imagine that looking good. So any ideas here would be gladly accepted. Keep in mind that I already bought the laminate so I would prefer to use it. Oh ya, the drain is in the middle of the room too. Which makes it even more difficult to manouver around.


I am trying to think if I have any other questions, but I am sure they will come up as you guys respond. Thanks a lot in advance. I plan to start this project in a few weeks, so any info would be helpful.
 

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I would use Dricore on the bare concrete first to help stop any seepage. You might also want to consider getting a heavy duty dehumidifier like: http://www.allergybuyersclubshopping...=UP&itemId=336


It will cost less to run and do a better job.


I don't see a problem with the drain if you are using dricore.


You might want to consider returning the laminate flooring and looking at vinyl. The "wood" vinyl they have at Home Depot looks better than most laminates (IMO) and is only $2/sqft.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. My dehumidifier works well, but it does cost a lot to run. That being said, it is brand new, so I will be sticking with it for now.


I wonder if "wood" vinyl would be best for the room with the drain?


I think I have decided to NOT put laminate over the drain because most things I continue to research say not to do that. But do I hear you saying that it would be ok to do so in your opinion?
 

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Vinyl will not be affected by moisture and that is why I am using it in my basement.
 

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I just purchased a product here in Canada that's similar to Dricore called Barricade. It's like Dricore, but it has rigid insulation underneath with channels to direct water and air. I am still waiting on the order to arrive and hoping it measures up to my expectations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hmmm... I am going to google it right after this. I like Dricore because it has a subfloor built into it, so I will have to see what this Barricade one is like. Wouldn't water channel underneath Dricore too though? Thats my understanding.


I wonder if this Barricade product would work in the area with the drain. I really leaning towards Vinyl in that room now though. Not sure if I mentioned, but I am in Canada, so maybe I could access this Barricade stuff fairly easily.


EDIT: After a quick google search I found some info on it. It doesn't look all that different from Dricore. I couldn't find any prices yet either. If is has no organic material, it might be a good idea though.. since Dricore DOES have some organic material in it. This Barricade product claims to be able to funnel water under the floor without a problem to the floor above... hmmmm.
 

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How long does one of those dehumidifiers last? I mean the regular ones are 3-5 year warranties, so I would expect to replace a unit once every 5 year. Is that to say, one of these at 4 times the cost will last 20? I mean the energy savings cannot be that great can it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/19561895


How long does one of those dehumidifiers last? I mean the regular ones are 3-5 year warranties, so I would expect to replace a unit once every 5 year. Is that to say, one of these at 4 times the cost will last 20? I mean the energy savings cannot be that great can it?

I would like to stay on topic cause I still need a lot of help, but I will respond to your post.


I would imagine that an expensive dehumidifier like that would be similar to a furnace in the length of time that it lasts. For $1300 it better last that long. I would rather stick with the one I have anyway. It's small and didn't need any installation. Mine works like a charm, but does cost about $40 a month to run. I'm not sure how a bigger unit would use less energy, but I trust Andreas. I have read a lot of his posts, and they always seem bang on.



Back to my issue. What else to do with this drain area? Andreas, you really think I can lay laminate right over the drain if I use dricore? I really believe that leaving access to the drain makes most sense, but I'm not sure really. I have another floor drain, by the way. This is a second drain.
 

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Thanks! I like to think I know what I'm talking about at least some of the time.



Here's a chart of all the "green" dehumidifiers: http://downloads.energystar.gov/bi/q..._prod_list.pdf


The higher the L/kwh, the better. If you knew what yours was, you could compare. The Santa Fe I linked to is 2.65 L/kwh. If yours was 1.3, for example, you could save $20/mon.


This dehumidifer is supposed to last much longer than a regular dehumidifier. A lot of the little ones only last a couple of years. With a cost of $200-300, they are not that good of a deal. They have to run a lot harder bc they can't remove as much water from the air. Also, the Santa Fe will pull water out of colder air, which can be an issue with a basement -- not an issue for a heated HT.


I posted above that you could use the Drycore over seeping concrete. I meant to say you should use Dryloc to seal it up. You can use Drycore at that point.


What is that drain for? Why do you need access to it? You could just plug it up. Another option is a FLOOR DRAIN BACKFLOW PREVENTER that I put in for my two sump well drains. That way water from the sewer cannot back up into your house, but water can still drain into them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I will respond to both of those posts above. My dehumidifier is this one.
http://www.shoptoit.ca/brand-whirlpo...ifier/5475233/


Like I said, it has done a great job for me. Only 2 year warranty I believe, but I have a brand new one as a backup as well. So when it breaks... I'm ready to make the exchange! My backup is a 75 pint Danby. Haven't used it yet since the one does the job on it's own.


Ok, so you say use this Dryloc stuff? I just looked it up. So it just rolls on? I have read in some other posts that sealing the floor may cause water to try and find another way in.. which wouldn't be good. So my new question is...


Would it be better to seal it with Dryloc, or just allow moisture to seep through and let the Dricore/Dehumidifier do the work? What are your thoughts Andreas? I had originally planned to seal the concrete prior to Dricore like you are saying, but then I changed my mind because of what I had read about water coming in different places.


Ok, and the drain. The drain is just an access drain. I don't need it for anything other than if I ever get flooded, that is where it would likely drain out. I have another one in the laundry room too, but the floor probably slopes equally towards both drains. Therefore, where would the water go if I covered it? I'm not planning on doing that room right away now anyway, but I need to figure it out at some point.


ICBM99- thanks for the response. I WAS thinking of doing what you say. Lay laminate to withing 3 feet all around the drain, and then tile to the drain. I'm not so sure about that idea, but it might work. The way I picture it is dricore to the drain but leave a cut out spot for the drain, and do the same with the tile. Then cap it with a grate or something that looks half decent. I've never done anything like this so I have NO IDEA. lol


Keep ideas coming guys, these are all very helpful.
 

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If you have water coming up from under the concrete, I would use Dryloc and then Dricore on top. If you use Dricore, if you have more than a little water coming in, it would find its way to one of your drains while under the Dricore. The Dricore has maybe .5" of space under it for water to flow. I would build the walls on top of the Dricore if you are able to since you have these floor drains. If you didn't it is recommended that you don't do that. (See Logan's thread.) If your walls are already in place, then the water will have to find the drains around the walls. Either way, I don't think you need access to the drains....but I'm just giving you my FREE OPINIONATED ADVICE.



I don't know if you are sound proofing, but I think the Dricore would make that more difficult.
 

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I had that same humidifier and it died when still in warranty. Because it is no longer made and no parts are available, Whirlpool refunded the purchase price.


The one question I have is about the water seepage. Is it enough to be standing water?


Another thought with the drain, if you really dont think you will need it, plug it and then float your entire floor to make it all level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/19563266


I had that same humidifier and it died when still in warranty. Because it is no longer made and no parts are available, Whirlpool refunded the purchase price.


The one question I have is about the water seepage. Is it enough to be standing water?


Another thought with the drain, if you really dont think you will need it, plug it and then float your entire floor to make it all level.

No, I never have standing water. BUT, it could happen of course. Since I waterproofed the foundation from the outside, I haven't had any water as far as I know. There are some cracks in the floor though.


Regarding the drain.. I could do as you say, but I'm thinking it is prob best to keep the drain. But I have no experience, just going by what seems to make sense to me. IF I ever get water, I will be thankful I have that drain, IMO.
 

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I think you would want the drain.


During my never ending remodel of my house I decided not to put a drain in the new utility room (all pier and beam construction with a crawlspace). Then I installed a temporary utility sink (and accidentally left the drain plug in), and overnight our four legged companions decided to turn the water on. The next morning there was water everywhere and it was buckling the subfloor (thankfully I hadn't installed the hardwood yet). You never know when it might strike.


Just last night I was hooking up the new faucets in the master bath, but didn't get to the drains, but I tested them and placed a small bucket under the drain hole to catch the water. Just before bed, I decided it would be better to turn off the faucet supplies just in case the stupid cats decided the handles were fun to play with (learned my lesson right?). Well apparently I had placed the small bucket next to the sink (that doesn't have a drain attached yet), and the furballs thought it would be a neat trick to push the bucket into the sink, so I still ended up with water everywhere.


Anyone want three Cats?
 

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Quote:
No, I never have standing water. BUT, it could happen of course.
Yeah, like when your sump pump fails. I HIGHLY recommend a battery back up pump.

Quote:
I don't know if you are sound proofing, but I think the Dricore would make that more difficult.
I don't think so. If you are decoupling using clips, they attach at the joist, not the floor so that's not a problem. A massive DD+GG wall along with the clips should significantly stop noise from entering the concrete floor. But acoustics are not always as apparent as you would think, so maybe one of the experts will chime here.

Quote:
If you didn't it is recommended that you don't do that. (See Logan's thread.
Or plan your install in such a way that you build the walls on top but leave a cut line around the perimeter inside the walls so that the interior dricore panels can easily be removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I do not have a battery backup for my sump pump, although I know I should. Just haven't got around to it, although I realize it's importance. Actually right now it is going off every 10 mins or so due to a lot of rain. If there were a power outage, I would be screwed. Maybe once I put in the laminate I will have to invest in one. Currently I really don't care if I get flooded since I have 1970's carpet. lol


I won't be able to put walls on top of Dricore since it is already finished. It is currently god awful ugly paneling, which due to money restrictions, will be painted instead of replaced with drywall.


And to answer the last comment, I will not be sound proofing. I'm not even sure I understand why I would want to do that on a basement floor to be honest.
 

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The 2X2 Barricade tiles are listed at between $8 and $9 here in Newfoundland. I purchased mine from Rona for 5.97 each and saved an additional 10% during a special scratch and save weekend promotion. I have seen them at Kent Building Supplies for the same price several times in the past few months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I am going to go with Dricore, but thanks for the info.


I tore up all the carpet the last 2 nights with the help of my wife. There is all the yellow glue on the floor now. I am going to try and clean it as well as I can, but I'm wondering how self-leveling concrete will set. I will use a primer for the floors too to help with bonding.


Anyway, I will add some pics tomorrow. I should have shown you all before I tore up the carpet, but I will start with what I have now. Painting begins this weekend.. well priming anyway. This thread will be a work in progress just like everyone else has.


Keep in mind I do not have anywhere near the same budget as many of the people here, so mine will just be a simple update, and new flooring. I am not building a Home Theatre.. lol.
 
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