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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone,

After much question asking, I am ready to get going on this thing. Wooooo!

I have a few prelim questions before I get going. These questions may seem all over the place, but please bear with me.

I have budget right now to buy the iNuke3000DSP, which I am going to pick up after work (wooo!). However, I don't want to drop another $300ish on a nice 18" driver right now, for a few reasons.

1) I have two 12" drivers from dead subs sitting at home (PSB subsonic II and BIC RTR12S....see pics below....and note the difference between the two...the PSB weighs maybe 5x as much as the BIC). I also JUST bought a BIC F12....so dont want to go nuts with the spending right now.

2) More importantly, I would like to build a "practice" sub before I spend more money on an 18" driver for the the "real" thing. I know this will cost me more in the end (more MDF, materials, etc) but I am okay with that. This is my first real woodworking project, and I dont mind trying a practice one before the real thing. I want the mini/full marty I end up building to have a nice finish and to wow the wife as well haha (will make it into a table).

So...I don't know the exact specs of these two 12" drivers, but I am thinking I can build a Marty Cube or Micro and use one or both in it. Thoughts? I will try to look up the drivers online to see if I can find their power handling, etc, so I don't end up frying them with the amp.

Other questions:

- The mini or full marty that I eventually end up building will be made into a table and placed behind my couches. Will using a 30' subwoofer cable affect the signal in any way? Will the performance be the same as using a 6' cable? Also, I know...don't determine the sub placement before you test it at different spots. However, my basement is pretty small and there really isnt any other space for the sub. The other option is I build a tall, narrow sub to go near my tv and move the BIC F12 behind the couches.

- My receiver has 5.2 channels. I am assuming that means I can hook up the BIC F12 to one output, and the iNuke to the other output. So I can technically run 3 subs then? Since the iNuke has 2 channels. Just want to confirm that is accurate.

I think that's it for now. Love to hear your thoughts.

C
 

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Hi everyone,

After much question asking, I am ready to get going on this thing. Wooooo!

I have a few prelim questions before I get going. These questions may seem all over the place, but please bear with me.

I have budget right now to buy the iNuke3000DSP, which I am going to pick up after work (wooo!). However, I don't want to drop another $300ish on a nice 18" driver right now, for a few reasons.

1) I have two 12" drivers from dead subs sitting at home (PSB subsonic II and BIC RTR12S....see pics below....and note the difference between the two...the PSB weighs maybe 5x as much as the BIC). I also JUST bought a BIC F12....so dont want to go nuts with the spending right now.

2) More importantly, I would like to build a "practice" sub before I spend more money on an 18" driver for the the "real" thing. I know this will cost me more in the end (more MDF, materials, etc) but I am okay with that. This is my first real woodworking project, and I dont mind trying a practice one before the real thing. I want the mini/full marty I end up building to have a nice finish and to wow the wife as well haha (will make it into a table).

So...I don't know the exact specs of these two 12" drivers, but I am thinking I can build a Marty Cube or Micro and use one or both in it. Thoughts? I will try to look up the drivers online to see if I can find their power handling, etc, so I don't end up frying them with the amp.
Without the T/S parameters for the 12" drivers you have no idea how they will react in your test cabinet. Those parameters will give you an idea of the dimensions of the cabinet and port(s) needed to perform optimally. I would build your test box using the 18" driver you intend to use in the finished product. If the test box works out, then you just have to work out the design to incorporate that into an end table.

What 18" driver are you thinking of using?

CinemaSound7 said:
Other questions:

- The mini or full marty that I eventually end up building will be made into a table and placed behind my couches. Will using a 30' subwoofer cable affect the signal in any way?
No problem, so long as it's a good quality cable. Check out monoprice.com or bluejeanscable.com

CinemaSound7 said:
- My receiver has 5.2 channels. I am assuming that means I can hook up the BIC F12 to one output, and the iNuke to the other output. So I can technically run 3 subs then? Since the iNuke has 2 channels. Just want to confirm that is accurate.
Correct. In fact, you can run more than 3 with a "Y" adapter, but that's for another discussion.

Note that you will only have DSP capability on those connected to the nu3000DSP, a sub connected to the AVR would use the AVR's room correction (if applicable) or whatever DSP capabilities it's amp has.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Without the T/S parameters for the 12" drivers you have no idea how they will react in your test cabinet. Those parameters will give you an idea of the dimensions of the cabinet and port(s) needed to perform optimally. I would build your test box using the 18" driver you intend to use in the finished product. If the test box works out, then you just have to work out the design to incorporate that into an end table.

What 18" driver are you thinking of using?


No problem, so long as it's a good quality cable. Check out monoprice.com or bluejeanscable.com


Correct. In fact, you can run more than 3 with a "Y" adapter, but that's for another discussion.

Note that you will only have DSP capability on those connected to the nu3000DSP, a sub connected to the AVR would use the AVR's room correction (if applicable) or whatever DSP capabilities it's amp has.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Regarding drivers...I am in the dark a bit. I'm not really sure what to look for. I know that the Dayton HO drivers are recommended a lot on this site, but not sure about any of the other ones I find when I search online, i.e.

http://www.amazon.ca/Technical-Pro-...&qid=1429723046&sr=8-9&keywords=18"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Boss-P156DVC-P...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-2&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Power-Acoustik...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-6&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Pyle-PLCHW15-1...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-7&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/POWER-ACOUSTIK...qid=1429722853&sr=8-14&keywords=15"+subwoofer

I was recommended this JBL as well, but I really don't know what to look for or why one is better than another.
http://www.amazon.ca/JBL-GTO1514D-D...qid=1429722949&sr=8-41&keywords=15"+subwoofer

I am not stuck on 18", I could go with 15", but if the price difference isn't huge and I have room for it, might as well go 18".

I don't think I can buy the driver right this moment. Maybe in a little while. That's why I wanted to make a test build.

Is there any harm in making a small sealed or ported sub to try with the 12" PSB driver I have? I tried finding the specs, cannot find anything online.

I know if you overload the driver it can fry, but is there any potential harm done to the iNuke?
 

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if you really want to get crazy, you could build the martysub that you want to build with the 16.7" cutout or whatever is appropriate for your driver, then mount your 12" driver to a piece of round wood the size of the driver cutout on the sub. bang! instant 18" sub. how it will perform won't be anything like the 18", and you won't have to build another cab.








 

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if you really want to get crazy, you could build the martysub that you want to build with the 16.7" cutout or whatever is appropriate for your driver, then mount your 12" driver to a piece of round wood the size of the driver cutout on the sub. bang! instant 18" sub. how it will perform won't be anything like the 18", and you won't have to build another cab.








Brilliant!
 

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...
1) I have two 12" drivers from dead subs sitting at home (PSB subsonic II and BIC RTR12S....see pics below....and note the difference between the two...the PSB weighs maybe 5x as much as the BIC). I also JUST bought a BIC F12....so dont want to go nuts with the spending right now.

...

So...I don't know the exact specs of these two 12" drivers, but I am thinking I can build a Marty Cube or Micro and use one or both in it. Thoughts? I will try to look up the drivers online to see if I can find their power handling, etc, so I don't end up frying them with the amp.
It's really hard to use random drivers unless you can measure the T/S parameters for them. Do you have a DATS or have access to one?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hahahaha that killed me. Awesome.

That's definitely an option.

If I choose to go 15" driver instead, that would be fine right? Just mount it inside the hole?

Again, I am hesitant to do the "good" one as my first build. Maybe I just need to be more confident that the build will turn out nicely lol.


Anyone have any input on those drivers I listed above?
 

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Thanks for the quick reply.

Regarding drivers...I am in the dark a bit. I'm not really sure what to look for. I know that the Dayton HO drivers are recommended a lot on this site, but not sure about any of the other ones I find when I search online, i.e.

http://www.amazon.ca/Technical-Pro-...&qid=1429723046&sr=8-9&keywords=18"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Boss-P156DVC-P...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-2&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Power-Acoustik...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-6&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/Pyle-PLCHW15-1...&qid=1429722853&sr=8-7&keywords=15"+subwoofer
http://www.amazon.ca/POWER-ACOUSTIK...qid=1429722853&sr=8-14&keywords=15"+subwoofer

I was recommended this JBL as well, but I really don't know what to look for or why one is better than another.
http://www.amazon.ca/JBL-GTO1514D-D...qid=1429722949&sr=8-41&keywords=15"+subwoofer

I am not stuck on 18", I could go with 15", but if the price difference isn't huge and I have room for it, might as well go 18".

I don't think I can buy the driver right this moment. Maybe in a little while. That's why I wanted to make a test build.
I suggested the JBL in your other thread as it models well in a 4.2ft^3 enclosure, which was close to a size constraint you had mentioned.

As Stereodude said, randomly throwing a driver in a XxYxZ cabinet will not often produce acceptable results. You would need to model the drivers you linked to see what cabinet/port configuration they would work best in. Particularly for ported designs. I believe this is why the Marty subs are so popular - The modeling/design is already done for you based on the drivers noted in http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1648673-martysub-faq.html. If you aren't comfortable modeling yourself, for your first build I would recommend sticking with a Marty design, or perhaps a flatpack from PE or DIYSG. Or spend some time with WinISD and ask questions here, loads of folks willing to help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It's really hard to use random drivers unless you can measure the T/S parameters for them. Do you have a DATS or have access to one?
Hmm okay. I do not, and if it comes down to buying one for my practice build, probably not worth it.

I guess I have been neglecting this aspect of the build. That's okay, learning something new everyday.

I don't expect the first build to be perfect or that great, just want to get my toes wet with the process I guess before jumping in with a full marty. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it.

I've downloaded WinISD and played around for a few minutes, but I think I need to spend a lot more time going through the program to try and model my own builds.

I just (maybe incorrectly) assumed that if I took one of the smaller marty builds (cube or micro) and used the 12" driver, it would probably sound half decent. Not ideal, but I didn't see any harm in it as it would be practice for me and it wouldnt cost me anything other than an extra sheet of MDF.

With WinISD, are there more driver specs you can download? Or is the list on the program fairly comprehensive?
 

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Hmm okay. I do not, and if it comes down to buying one for my practice build, probably not worth it.

I guess I have been neglecting this aspect of the build. That's okay, learning something new everyday.

I don't expect the first build to be perfect or that great, just want to get my toes wet with the process I guess before jumping in with a full marty. Maybe that's the wrong way to look at it.

I've downloaded WinISD and played around for a few minutes, but I think I need to spend a lot more time going through the program to try and model my own builds.

I just (maybe incorrectly) assumed that if I took one of the smaller marty builds (cube or micro) and used the 12" driver, it would probably sound half decent. Not ideal, but I didn't see any harm in it as it would be practice for me and it wouldnt cost me anything other than an extra sheet of MDF.
It may sound OK, it may not. But the building aspect certainly wouldn't be on the same level as a full Marty, so it's a bit like comparing apples and ice cubes ;).
(And without specs for the driver it may sound great for a few seconds before the smoke comes out... :D)

Learning to use WinISD frees you to research driver/cabinet combinations other than those posted in these forums. You can put together a cabinet that fits the driver and your space/requirements perfectly. That is what I feel is the real beauty of DIY. I spent a couple of months with WinISD to get the hang of it while researching the build in my sig.

CinemaSound7 said:
With WinISD, are there more driver specs you can download? Or is the list on the program fairly comprehensive?
Some here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...sion/14410-downloadable-winisd-pro-files.html

EDIT: Also, asking for a WinISD file for a particular driver here on AVS will often get you what you need.

Entering your own parameters is quite easy, many times it's considerably easier than finding the real T/S specs of a driver :eek:. See "Inputting Parameters in WinISD Pro" here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...wnload-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html
It's a good tutorial to get you started.
 

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With WinISD, are there more driver specs you can download? Or is the list on the program fairly comprehensive?
I have been using these directions from @LTD02 (original post is in the MartySub FAQ thread)

a: grab a copy of winisd. if using windows 7, go here: https://www.facebook.com/Winisd

to enter thiele small parameters for a driver (aka t/s specs):
make sure all fields are clear, then
enter qes then hit tab, enter qms
hit tab a couple times and let it calculate qts
hit tab a few times to move to mms
enter mms, re, bl, le, sd, xmax, and pe
by using tab after entering each data, it will calculate what it needs to
i no longer get any conflicts
sometimes the specs calculated don't match exactly the manufacturer specs, but its only rounding type errors, so it is not material
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks to both of you for that information.

I have no idea how to figure out any of those parameters. I am not sure where to start. I.e. I am reading that mms is Mass of everything that moves within the driver, measured in grams. How would I even find that out?

I played around with the program a bit last night. It doesn't seem complicated to use, but I really don't know how to figure out these parameters for the driver I have.

I also tried changing the size of the enclosure, but wasn't sure what to do. It said to click on the image of the box and move the mouse. Which I did, and the graph changed, but I didn't even know what was happening because the image of the box stayed the same. I downloaded the program from the facebook website. I'm using Windows Vista.
 

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Thanks to both of you for that information.

I have no idea how to figure out any of those parameters. I am not sure where to start. I.e. I am reading that mms is Mass of everything that moves within the driver, measured in grams. How would I even find that out?

I played around with the program a bit last night. It doesn't seem complicated to use, but I really don't know how to figure out these parameters for the driver I have.
You would get them from the manufacturer or independent lab measurments. For example:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/663ab8fc44823217fd87abef74b72ce5
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=46

You're looking for the T/S (Thiele/Small) parameters. You plug those into WinISD in the database editor.

CinemaSound7 said:
I also tried changing the size of the enclosure, but wasn't sure what to do. It said to click on the image of the box and move the mouse. Which I did, and the graph changed, but I didn't even know what was happening because the image of the box stayed the same. I downloaded the program from the facebook website. I'm using Windows Vista.
Not sure what this does/is supposed to do, I've always entered the box size and target tune manually.

I would highly recommend reading through the HTS link I posted earlier. It will help answer a lot of questions.
 

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if you really want to get crazy, you could build the martysub that you want to build with the 16.7" cutout or whatever is appropriate for your driver, then mount your 12" driver to a piece of round wood the size of the driver cutout on the sub. bang! instant 18" sub. how it will perform won't be anything like the 18", and you won't have to build another cab.








This may be the best post I've read all month... I almost fell out of my chair at work laughing. :D
 
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