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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This should arrive in a few days. Now here's the thing. It has only 1 hdmi input. Two Component Inputs, a S Cable and a VGA input.


Of course, I have an Xbox 360 and also use it as a DVD player. My cable box from Insight Cable has HDMI out.


So I plug the cable box into the HDMI. Should I plug the Xbox into Component or obtain a VGA cable and use the VGA instead? I don't know enough about HD so am soliciting recommendations from you experts.


Further to this, I have an Onkyo HTS770. This one does not seem to have any HD inputs. so how do you recommend I make my connections?


I'm thinking Set-top HDMI to the tv. Digital Audio out to Onkyo. Xbox Component or VGA (based on recommendations here) into tv, and Xbox Digital Audio out to Onkyo directly. I think if I use component for xbox to the tv, I can also plug audio straight into the tv, and let the tv do pass the audio to the tv digitally through the one Digital Audio out. But will the Onkyo still play Dolby 5.1 that way?


Please let me know if you think this post should be moved to the Westy forum.


UPDATE: I now have this telly and am quite loving it for most part. My cat seems to be fascinated by the picture on it. During the Colts vs Patriots half-time, I was flipping through channels and came upon some nature show on PBS HD. My cat came upon it as well.


Didn't have a dv cam but did have my digital camera handy; I recorded it, minus any audio. Have posted to Youtube in case you're keen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smE_nJKSxl4


M


M
 

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Since the 360 is your DVD player, try VGA since it allows for upconversion. I use VGA on my 42" westy and love it.


Your connections look good except just run digital audio straight from the 360 to the Onkyo for 5.1.


Good luck and enjoy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks fellas.


Both recommendations were very helpful. I think this is what I'll do for now.


Set top box hdmi to westy. Westy digital audio out to onkyo (this will allow me the best of both worlds yes? Because that means I don't need to have the onkyo on to watch the telly.)


Then...Xbox component out to westy. Digital audio straight to Onkyo. I can't imagine either playing a game, watching a film or listening to music without the onkyo.


Then if and whenever I upgrade and obtain the HD-DVD add-on, I'll get the VGA cable. That'll save me a few bucks in the short term.


This telly is not 1080p. It's just 1080i, but I suspect will do well enough for a few years. HD Programming is barely in abundance anyway for a while yet.


MOre comments are welcome.


Thanks again lads!


M
 

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Go VGA for the 360; your TV native resolution is 1366x768. By going VGA the 360 will feed it at 1360x768 with no overscan. That should be cleaner than sending 1280x720 from the 360 to be upscaled and overscaned at the TV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ok looks like vga, then.


However, I'm under the impression it's 1080i. That's what the specs at Westy's website says.


Ftorres' direction makes some sense to me. However, ogbuehi's doesn't, to me. 1080i , 768p... I've only heard of 480i/p, 720 and 1080i/p.


I wish I knew as much as you fellas!!


M
 

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The standard HD resolutions out there are 1080i, 1080p, and 720p. This hasn't stopped manufacterers from making sets that display resolutions that fall in between 720p and 1080p. I currently own a 788p native set (currently watching EPIII in beautiful HD). 768p just refers to the amount of horizontal lines (768) your tv displays progressivelly (that's where the p comes from, progressive just means all at the same time compared to the "i" in 1080i/480i which stands for interlaced). Ftorres' just gave you the pixel count (number of pixels in a vertical and horizontal line your diplay has).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks! You've cleared it up for me. Also, you inspired me to do some reading on this topic after reading you posts.


When the tv does arrive, will i have to make some setting changes on my set-top box and/or xbox 360? It's the motorola dual dvr cable box



M
 

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Reading up is good but it can be confusing; different folks have waayyy different opinions on what is "best".


Even a brief summary of the issues can get pretty elaborate, but I'll try to wing it and stay on topic:


The bulk of the confusion stems from the fact that the TV business has traditionally only quantified display quality in terms of vertical resolution (number of horizontal lines) ignoring horizontal resolution because with analog B&W displays that was determined more by the quality of the signal received than the quality of the set. After color was enabled, dot-pitch (horizontal resolution) could be used as a measure of quality but vendors shunned it like the plague. Only computer CRT manufacturers published dot-pitch specs and that grudgingly.

In the digital arena, however, most displays are fixed-resolution; they have a single, fixed grid of pixels to which all images must be mapped, regardless of the format of the incoming signal. Which is where scaler chips, deinterlacers, and video processors (built-in or external0 come into play.

Think of it as scaling jpg images of different sizes to full screen mode on a PC. Some will look great, some will look bad. The bigger images with higher pixel counts will look better.


As pointed out, the NorthAmerican ATSC standard allows for a range of digital display modes; four of them are HD (720p60 and 1080i60, 1080p24, and 1080p30. (the last two digits refer to the number of fields in the transmission; for progressive modes, frame = field, but for interlaced modes a field = half a frame.) This refers to incoming data streams. It says nothing about the displays natural resolution. (Think of it as the size of the jpeg pictures.)


Now, in the digital display arena over the past few years the market has seen all sorts of product hit the market, ranging from CRTs that can display 1080i but not 720p, to ED flat panels (usually something like 830x480) to stretched-XGA (1024x768) or WXGA (1366x768). These displays generally accept the basic HD resolution data (720p and 1080i) and then massage it for display. Some folks like massaged images while others prefer unprocessed digital data. Depending on the technology and limitations of a given display, and the nature of the signal being presented, it can go either way.


For a gaming console like the 360, in general, the less a display does to the 360 output, the more accurate the image you get and most of us prefer unprocessed 360 displays. And, unlike a certain other console recently introduced, the 360 bends over backwards to match the native resolution of the displays customers are likely to have in their homes. The primary vehicle for this, is the VGA cable.


Where Component and HDMI cables only support 480, 720, and 1080 resolutions, VGA supports pretty much every native resolution out there (with 3 exceptions, so far; 1600x1200, 1650x1048, and 1400x900--lots of folks are lobbying MS to add those modes and it might yet happen).


So, for somebody with a VGA-capable display, VGA is the way to get it to display raw unprocessed 360 output. This can be good--Westinghouse owners are generally pleased with how good the 360 looks via VGA after calibration--or it can be bad if the display doesn't accept its native resolution via VGA (and yes, it happens) or if it doesn't allow color tuning of the VGA port (like with a lot of PC monitors).


Now, the second reason why VGA is something to try, is that because of analog legacy-think at the manufacturers, most HDTVs overscan not only analog signals but also digital ones that shouldn't need it. This is a process whereby the incoming signal gets zoomed in by a few percentage points so the edges fall outside the display resolution. With digital signals this introduces scaling effects where none should exist. A good display should offer a way to switch overscan off, or at least one input that isn't overscanned. This is variously called dot-by-dot display mode or 1-to-1 mapping. The most common way to achieve this is, you guessed it; VGA.


Add those two up and while its no panacea and there is no guarantee of superiority (your milleage *will* vary), VGA is more *likely* to present a better image than even the very good image the 360 presents via component, once both are properly calibrated.


And yes, calibration is generally a good idea.

Most displays come out of the box calibrated for showroom display, not living room use.

If you have a DVD of any of the Lucasfilm trilogy movies (Star wars, Indiana Jones), you'll find a THX optimizer pick in the extras. (Also available on a lot of other DVDs that you may have around.) It is a minimalist calibration wizard you can use as a starting point to eyeball a decent enough calibration for movie viewing on that port. Gaming calibration might be different. Fortunately, some games let you tweak their output from inside the game so you can get a pleasing image without having to tweak the display.


Final calibration should always be to *your* taste, though.

You're the one that's going to have to live with it.


Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
By the eyes of Jupiter!!


Thanks for that explanation. Things make lots more sense to me! Do you write for CNET or something??


Someone should publish that brief. I'm reasonably sure I'm not the only one here that has a limited understanding of these things, and this would be good to share!!


Thanks again ftorres and everyone else that has contributed to my quest!!


I appreciate it!!


M
 

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Lol!

No, I don't write for te yellow rag of tech reporting.

All I did was paraphrase what I learned round these parts and a few others.

If its helpful to you, you can do the same for the next newbie.

We all start out as newbies...


Main thing is, have fun with your new toys...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's not how much you know (although from my seat, that is esteemed to). It's the delivery!!


And yes, if I'm ever in a position to share, I shall.


In the mean time, I've gotta wait for this thing to arrive and then decide if I'm going to mount it or put it on some piece of furniture. I'd like to be able to fine a 2-3 foot tall table, about a foot deep and approximately 7 feet wide. My 0nkyo has fairly large speakers and don't want to hang them.


First stop, value city for cheap furniture. Pity there isn't an Ikea here YET.


M
 

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Value City, huh? Sounds like Ohio. ;-)

Don't overlook Sears. The carry a lot of TV stands. Some stores carry more than BB or CC, both of which are pretty good. HH Gregg, not so much.

If you're not sure about wall-mounting, look into a stand with a flat-panel mounting arm.

I've seen them at BB and Wal-Mart, plus some online retailers.

It'll give you pinpoint height adjustment plus a floating panel look, with plenty of space for the black boxes.


The adventures of new display ownership...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Yes, unfortunately, Ohio it is!! hehe.


I'll also check out these other places you recommend. Ikea really has a nice piece I like. I'm getting into this minimalist type thing and thought a lowish but wide console or something would be nice. I could then rest my speakers at the ends, perhaps place some decorative pieces by the speakers and the three boxes side by side as well and mount the telly on the wall. Problem, of course, is availability, money (else I'd have bought a Sony or something, what??), and plasterboard wall. I think I've located the stud or whatever it's called.


This stand with a wall-mounting arm also sounds intriguing. Currently, the 25 inch panasonic crt from circa 1742 is sitting on a crappy old stand and the two only left/right speakers are sitting on top of two HUGE old speakers that I don't use apart from as stands.


I should have gone with smaller / satellite speakers, but I just love the sound that comes out of wood cabinet speakers.


It is an apartment however, so I'm trying to avoid making holes.


Cheers!


M
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks! I'll stick with this for now. It's all said and done, unless something's completely crap with it. Will be looking to get a another one for the new place later in the year anyway, perhaps will revisit 1080p at that time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ok, just received the telly today and temporarily have placed it on a stand and will be aquiring either a mount or a new media something or other in the next few days.


I've set it up rudimentarily. Have the cable box (Motorola 6412) in HDMI and the 360 in Component. Only reason it's in component is because I haven't had the time to procure the vga cable yet. Will do in the next few days.


It's a lovely thing, this telly. But some preliminary observations. Of course, Xbox looks fantastic (I have it set to 1080i). Can't really tell much difference from Xbox set to 720p. Perhaps that's because of the component, and I know this tv is really 720p, correct?


Anyway, still looks fantastic!! I shall comment on HD channels though. SOme programs on HD look great and some just alright. NBC, for example: that game show, 1 to 100, looked fairly mediocre, but what came on after that, Las Vegas or whatever, looks absolutely fantastic. Recorded Grey's Anatomy while watching 1 to 100, and playing back the recording..loooks absolutely stunning.


All the shows mention (when I bring up the info bit on the telly) seem to be on 1080i. Would you say this is simply due to the original recording format or whatever?


Now, I'm not deaf but I do use Closed Captioning from time to time, especially when I step into the balcony to have a *** (er..smoke). When set to HDMI, I see no options for CC, in the settings menu....the CC button does nothing. However, when I depress the TV button, I get no signal, but settings presents a CC menu.


Is there some workaround for this? I shall miss my CC otherwise.


The weekend is here, so I'm quite sure I'll be playing with this lots and will present more obervations as I discover more via my explorations. Once again all, thanks for all the guidance.


BTW, I've also set my set-top box to send 1080i. Looks great to me, so I see not much reason to switch down. Perhaps this is because I've never had a HD but I'm not complaining.


I'd love some direction on the CC bit if anyone has any wisdom to impart.


Regards,


Uss
 
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