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I just got my new Elite 610 broken in (100 plus hours) and I am in total love with it. I have had a crapp 1st gen Toshiba DVD player in place while my nice one came in. I ordered a Pana H1000 for a very good price and thought it would be the best for the 610.


I have friends that have the H1000 and it is unreal looking. Plus the fact that is one of the few units out there that is above average on almost all tests and its built like a Brick Sh$$ House, I had to have it. Well I got it, I looks great in interlaced mode and when I go to Prog mode the color looks better but the image is gritty. Is that normal or what do you think might be wrong.


I am using a set of component cables that came with my Echostar 6000 HD receiver. I have tested the Matrix on it in prog and interlace but I'm not happy.


The interlaced mode is to soft/blurred. Smooth but a bit blurry on fine edges like hair. The Prog mode is sharp but its surfaces look dirty or noisy. The noise is like film dirt. I can tune it down by adjusting the sharpness in the H1000 but its still not up to par for me.


I mean I'm not asking for much I just want a perfect image ;-)


Can someone possibly shine some light on my problem.


Thanks


Monte Content

Director of Events
www.theCPL.com
[email protected]
 

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How can you adjust the sharpness on the H1000? I have an H1000 and have never seen these types of adjustments. I just went through the manual and didn't see anything like that.
 

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Hi Monte,

The Panasonic RP91 acts the same exact way with 480i & 480p.


A lot of ther "grit" you are seeing is film grain, and--as you discovered--turning down the sharpness does help.


This enigma varies greatly between various DVDs. i.e., Starship Troopers is crisp and vibrant with no real grit to speak of, and yet a title such as Goldfinger will have you switching back to the interlaced mode (the softer image is more forgiving).


Anyway, this has to do more with content than the player's performance.


Cheers,

Peter M
 

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Monte,


I've had an Elite 610 for about 2 years now and adjust just about everything on it that can be. I purchased the Service Manual on it to learn how to easily enter it's Service Mode to change things well beyond what can be done using the simple on-screen User Menu's shown in the Operating Instructions Manual. In the Service Mode you still use the remote and various on-screen patterns and messages, but the remote keys mean all different things than what they are labeled - and the Service Manual tells you what key does what.


The Elite RPTV's are known to come with heavy edge enhancement (or Sharpness) set from the factory. This over-sharpness emphasizes any grittyness in images. Turning down Sharpness in the User Menu to -30 will help a little, but turning down Sharpness through the Service Mode to -127 helps a lot more. Also try using a NR (Noise Reduction) setting near the max to help with this grittyness. I use NR set all the way up to +5 sometimes on my 610 - set NR through the simple User Menu. Also too high (bright) of a Black Level setting will sometimes emphasize grittyness in images, as will too high of a Contrast setting. Adjust these both through the User Menu.


Also, using the "Movie" mode all the time for all sources will not only make all images (even SAT channels) look more "filmlike", but may reduce apparent grittyness somewhat.


Most of the above stuff is related to what they call "calibrating" your 610, because they don't come from the factory set at all optimum.


Once you become a "Service Mode Tweaker" with your 610 you'll then want to get into the real subtle stuff. i.e. I'm now investigating the "Detail" video parameter in the Service Menu which is not discussed in the Service Manual at all, but does add a 3-D look to even the best sources if you adjust it from what the factory had set it. Most adjustments in the Service Menu are from -127 to +127, which is way more than the -30 to +30 range you get using the simple user Menu.


All the above stuff can be adjustment SEPARATELY for S-Video input, TV antenna input, and component input. Also, by playing games with Service Modes you can also almost adjust all the above SEPARATELY by physical input (Input1, 2, 3). The Elite RPTV's have very powerful customization capabilities inside the Service Menu - that's part of what you are getting for the extra money you spend for them.


After two years of fiddling, I even have a "filmlike" look to my VHS images now - way different (and way better) than VHS looked on my 610 when it was new.


Good luck and don't be timid inside the Service Menu - just buy or download the Service Manual first!
 

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pnichols,


I have an Elite 510 that I'm very happy with. One item I've noticed is the overscan seems excessive, especially on the top. Can you go into the service menu and adjust the geometry?


Thanks for your help.
 

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egrady,


I haven't touched overscan yet because I've been happy with what my 610 came with.


However, the Service Manual does show you how to adjust overscan INDIVIDUALLY for the Natural Wide, Cinema Wide, Zoom, and Full modes.


Note that the Service Manual is written with poor sentence structure, so you have to figure out somewhat what to do regarding the instructions, however once you get "used to" it's structure what it says is absolutely correct and accurate - just a bit hard to understand at first.
 

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I have a 510. I have entered the service menu once to adjust the horizontal centering on component input for my RP-91 DVD player which was off by 3-4% to the left. I would be very cautious playing around in there. If you screw it up, it is not covered by the warranty to have a technician come out and fix it. I decided to just live with the approx. 5% overscan on the top. Also, it is apparently not possible to adjust the HD geometry using the VGA input from my (sole) HD source- an RCA DTC-100; instead it requires a 1080i source from a component input. There is a lot of good information about the Elites here.
 

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rays,


Yeah I've read about the HD convergence/geometry adjustment not working through Input 3 (with the switch set to RGB).


I use DISH for SAT with their 6000 STB. This STB will upconvert SDTV to 1080i if you wish. I just set it to 1080i, turn on a SAT channel, go into the Service Menu, and tweak HD convergence, geometry, and other video parameters for the "Component 31K/33K" mode.


By the way I got tired of redoing 72-point convergence all the time using the User Menu whenever I entered Service Mode to quickly adjust other stuff (This is because you lose User Menu convergence settings in memory each time you enter/exit Service Mode.). Now ...... I ALWAYS grab a toothpick to push the Service Mode concealed switch and then tweak convergence INSIDE the Service Mode so I can go into/out-of Service Mode at will without losing all my convergence settings. It's just as fast to do convergence from within the Service Mode - assuming you buy a box of toothpicks!


Another by the way, you've probably noticed that the Elite's accomplish their various "raster zooms" merely by having overscan set differently for the modes. This means you can actually have Cinema Wide and Zoom enlarge images by amounts other than what the factory has set if you wish by tweaking the mode overscans. The annoying loss of writtin info at the bottom of Natural Wide screens is an example of why you might want to adjust Natural Wide bottom overscan.


Regarding technicians coming out to fix something on an Elite .... It's too difficult to locate and keep a competent one, so I vowed early-on to learn the Service Mode stuff to make sure it got done right - plus when the warranty runs out you know all about doing it yourself so you don't have to put up with both finding a competent tech plus laying out the dollars.
 

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Quote:
How can you adjust the sharpness on the H1000? I have an H1000 and have never seen these types of adjustments. I just went through the manual and didn't see anything like that.
There are four sharpness settings in the H1000 display menu (0 thru 3) Sharpness should be left at 0 or 1 on most large displays. Anything higher starts to exaggerate edge enhancement excessively.



Monte,


As mentioned above grain is a by-product of film that becomes more noticable the more fully resolved the image is. Unless, your components are exaggerating the effect by way of over-enhancement themselves, the only way to decrease its presence, is by reducing resolution.


When I had the H1000 hooked up to my 65" Mits, I never found grain objectionable, even on discs that are known to be excessively grainy. But, as mentioned above, the Pioneer displays are known to be edgy, or to have an overenhanced quality. This might look good with a soft transfer, but a sharper one will be even more revealing with a progressive player, for several reasons.


Since your display already has a good built-in doubler (I know the 710 does, but I'm not sure if the 610 uses the same deinterlacing solution) the difference shouldn't have anything to do with a smoother picture due a better deinterlacer in the player as opposed to that in the tv. In otherwords, it wouldn't be a case of fewer artifacts that would normally be distracting the eye from picking up on grain. However, the progressive player will still be sharper than an interlaced player on an HDTV due to fewer processing steps taking place before the image is displayed on screen.

So, the progressive player will be more revealing.


I would still research some of the tweaks that pnichols recommends. As, no RPTV is 100% from the factory. They can look a lot better once properly calibrated.


If after doing research about making these changes yourself, you still don't feel comfortable going into the service menus, you may be able to find an ISF tech. in your area that will do it for you. But be sure the tech does thorough calibrations, not just what ISF authorizes (grayscale and color). And, make sure they are already familiar with your particular display.


Untill then, one of the benefits of the H1000 over some progressive players is that it will output both progressive and interlaced simultaniously. So, if the picture gets too grainy with some dvds you can just switch over to an interlaced input without having to reconfigure anything in the players setup menu.


Chad
 

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If you check the Shootout results on the H1000 and the player review, this player exibits more EE than other players. I own one as well. In the Avia sharpness test patern, I acutally have to turn down sharpness from the ISF'd level to reduce the edge enhancement. Otherwise it is a wonderful player. I got a great deal on mine to back in march $800 when it was still 1400 and above else where.


FREAK!
 

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For some reason, the overenhancement produced by the H1000 doesn't seem to manifest in areas other than ringing. In fact, out of the six or seven players, that I've owned, I found it the least grainy without using video noise reduction.


As far as ringing goes, it has been described as being more along the lines of average, as most players exhibit some level of ringing. Rather than being worse than most others. Still on a large display, just a little, can appear to be a lot.


Monte, if you don't know what we mean by ringing or edge enhancement, don't ask. Trust me, in this regard, ignorance is bliss. ;)


Chad
 

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I second the ignorance thing. I was tempted to post a link to 'the ultimate guide to edge enhancement' but I dont want to ruin your movie viewing/perception for ever....Turn back while you still can man!


FREAK!


Oh, here's a suggestion for getting rid of grain...good cables. Those crap component cables that come with the E* 6000 are junk. I advocate spending a few bucks and getting some cables from Better cables. I had monster component cables and switched to silver serpent component and the grain DID reduce.


Better cables ROCK!
 

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What menu or sub-menu is this 'Sharpness' under? I can't find it on my H1000. I assume its under the menu when you press the 'action' button on the remote?


Thanks
 

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It's under the first or second on-screen "display" menu. (The menus that show up as a blue bar at the top of the screen.) If memory serves it's right next to the gamma adjustment.


Chad
 

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Press display twice while watching a dvd. the last two options on the right are sharpness and gamma. sharpness is 0,1,2,3 and gamma is on or off.



FREAK!
 

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You guys are flippin' me out with all that you know on all the technical stuff. That said...a question or two for you.


I realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I need help in making a decision on a DVD player. I couldn't make up my mind on either the Pan RP91 or the Tosh SD9200. Then I start reading about the Pan H-1000 and am now thoroughly confused.


Which is best to go with my Elite Pro610HD monitor and TUHDS20 satellite receiver? Or...any others that you think are better?


I'm really looking for one that produces the best picture quality and sound through my Sony555ES receiver.


Thanks...
 

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The H1000 is an older player. I have one and love it but wish it had the auto scale feature of the H2000. I'll probably wait and see if there will be an H3000 this year and then upgrade.
 

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Blitzburgh,


If you have been reading in HT forums much you may be coming aware that the 610 (I have one too), like all X10 & X20 Elite RPTV's, do superb conversion of 480i video scanning coming in over to the 480p video scanning you see on it's screen.


A progressive DVD player's main feature is to do this conversion so your 610 doesn't have to (that's what the word "progressive" is referring to). Therefore you want a DVD player that uses 480i/480p conversion circuits that as close as possible equal those in your 610 or ........ (ideally) exceed those in you 610.


The RP91, Pany H1000, and Pany H2000 do not have conversion circuits that meet this baseline criteria, although all three have many other DVD player performance features that are implemented very well (superbly - with regards to certain features).


You might want to narrow your quest for a DVD player (because you have a 610) down to consideration of only players that use either the Silicon Image Si504 or Sage FLI2200 480i/480p conversion circuits. After you have a list of player candidates that meet this criteria, then select the player that provides the price and other features you want.


(I've kept my comments above nontechnical, depending upon where you are "on the learning curve" at this point!)
 

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Phil,


As someone with both an Elite 610HD and the Panny RP91, I couldn't disagree more. I can A/B the Elite doubler against the one in the RP91 at any time simply by pressing the "progressive" button on the RP91, and I can tell you that the picture when the RP91 is doing the deinterlacing absolutely blows away the picture when compared with letting the Elite do it. The picture is sharper, and yet it has a less "processed" look. If you are a tester, and deliberately try playing titles known to have coding errors, you may find a few that look worse on the RP91. But in the two months I've had my RP91, playing my own collection and renting a handful of movies each weekend, I haven't found any that don't look awesome. I think you are doing a disservice to Elite owners by discouraging them from the RP91; these two are a match made in heaven.


Ben
 

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Ben and Phil...both of you guys are very literate on all of this stuff yet, on the compatibility of the RP91 with the Elite 610 you're poles apart.


This doesn't surprise me in the least as many an opinion from the resident experts are all too often very different. That's not a rap and trust you'll not take it as such.


I guess it serves to suggest that it's all not an exact science I suppose coupled with individual preferences.


I sincerely appreciate the feedback...it's been MOST helpful. I'm learning more through folks like you each and every day though, admittedly, at this point...I know only enough to be dangerous. Again...thanks...Lee
 
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