[Jonmx]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanHouck: Pricewise, the XP21 is about $800 less than the PLV60 which is about $1000 less than the XP30. So I could supposedly get the new Quadscan and combine it with the XP21N for about the same price as the XP30. What do you think? Is the 16:9 of the PLV60 worth the other tradeoffs in picture quality, brightness and scaler quality? Or is Projector Central right and the better alternative is the XP21N or even the XP30? Dan

Where did you get your pricing info? From everything I've seen the XP21N and the PLV60 are both right around $6000 (Powerbuy through Jason at $5799). Anyways, it is a tough call right now. I think for DVD-progressive scan playback, the XP21N may be the best. But as HDTV signals become more available, the added resolution of the PLV-60 will be worthwhile.

 

[Dan G]

Jonmx, I agree with your comments.

However, regarding HD, considering that 10 months ago neither of these projectors existed, and the snail's pace of current HD additions, I would assume we will all have newer and better projectors by the time HD is a serious mainstay (3-6 years from now).

I will tell you that I have two HD movie channels, and I watch them all the time (3-6 films per week, whenever I can)- it is fantastic, but not much material.


Dan, if you have ambient light. Goodbye PLV-60. I havent seen it, but it has half the output of the XP21.

Get the XP21 or XP30.

What is your 20% viewing other than DVD?- if it is NTSC you really need a Quadscan I think for it to be nice. DVD playback on the 21 via Quadscan is wonderful.


dg

 

[DanHouck]

Thanks, guys.


Well, I could also use the Panamorph (I am on the second prebuy) to improve HDTV reception, no?


However, Dan, I think you've put the HDTV thing in perspective, and I would add another comment--boring, stupid and ad-filled broadcast TV is still boring, stupid and ad-filled regardless of picture quality. We hardly watch it. The only exception is football season. Frankly I don't give a damn about HDTV for this very reason.


Also, Dan, what do you know about this new Quadscan "Elite" that is supposed to be designed to work much better with digital projectors? And did you ever get a Grayhawk for your XP21N?


Is it true the XP21N is going to be discontinued in favor of the XP30?


Dan Houck

 

[DanHouck]

XP21N, XP30 or PLV60?


I was thinking on going with the PLV60 until I saw the review on Projector Central (PLV60 vs XP21N) and read all the comments over at the Big Picture. My previous choice was the XP21N but I really liked the idea of native 16:9 which only the PLV60 has.


Now, I seem to be back to the 21N, but there is also the XP30 to consider. What I like about the 21N is the 2500 lumen brightness, and the MLA. The internal scaler is apparently only adequate, like the PLV60, but there seems to be a general consensus that screen door is significantly better than the PLV60. Since the Panamorph also apparently reduces screen door, the combination of the two should make it pretty much a non issue.


Now comes the XP30 which is brighter yet, uses a different type of bulb which might have better color characteristics, and also apparently has a better internal scaler which, when combined with a good progressive scan player, should get the job done.


Pricewise, the XP21 is about $800 less than the PLV60 which is about $1000 less than the XP30. So I could supposedly get the new Quadscan and combine it with the XP21N for about the same price as the XP30.


My application involves some ambient light and usage will be 80% DVD. Screen size will be 6' X 8' and projector must be at least 16' back.


What do you think? Is the 16:9 of the PLV60 worth the other tradeoffs in picture quality, brightness and scaler quality? Or is Projector Central right and the better alternative is the XP21N or even the XP30?


Then, of course, there's the new Sony 11HT which supposedly excels in the screendoor arena (the new LCD panels may have the staggered pixel array of the old 400Q) and is the successor to a very user friendly projector, the 10HT.


Decisions, decisions! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Dan

 

[leckian]

Between the mixed reviews and only 1300 ansi lumens I think the 21 is a much better choice. I have had a Mits X390 for the past week with 2200 ansi lumens and having that much power is a joy. I casually flipped on a movie during the day and I was amazed. It was like watching TV in terms of brightness. The picture was very bright and colorful and I didn't even try to reduce the light in the room. For anyone wanting to casually enjoy their projector during the day I recommend at least 2000 ansi lumens.


Lenny


[This message has been edited by leckian (edited 07-04-2001).]

 

[DanHouck]

Hi DanG!

So you're watching HDTV with "black" bars top and bottom. How black are they?


I'm in the second Panamorph prebuy so that means I'll have the lens by late August (hopefully!).


At this point, I'm back to the 21N but I want to see how the new 11HT and the Infocus HT, both on the street in just a few weeks, stack up. I really like the idea of 2500 lumens so long as I can improve the black level with a Grayhawk.


Would really be interested in your friend's feedback about the Quadscan, so I hope one of you will post it here.


What have you finally concluded is the best (reasonably priced) DVD player to use with the 21N/Quadscan combo? All I have now is a cheap and dirt Toshiba 2109, I'm sure there are much better players out there now.


Thanks!


DanH

 

[Cameron]

Hey there DanH. I am amazed that you can hold out this long without having made a FP purchase already. I wish I had your patience (at least sometimes I wish I did). http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Cameron


------------------

-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --

 

[DanHouck]

"-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --"


Cameron:


I haven't blown my budget yet! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Hell, if there was any way I could make it work in this room, it would have been a D-ILA G-15 or G-20. Mark's right-this is the state of the art in reasonably priced digital projectors.


Unfortunately, I live in this custom renovated Santa Fe style adobe with all this expensive wood and plaster. Cutting holes is a NO NO! Consequently, the WAF is a real problemo! Looks like the Sanyo XP21N is going to pass the acid (WAF) test! Believe me, I've been sweating bullets waiting for the right thing to come along.


Dan

 

[Dan G]

Dan,

No Greyhawk for me. I live in an apt, so permanent installation is not an option, and the Greyhawk is just too pricey for me right now. I am having great results with my $150 Da Lite B Snap, and I don't want to get into the same upgraditis that I did with audio gear!


I have not seen the Quadscan Elite, but a guy I correspond with just bought one for his 21n. Hopefully he will let me know how it is. He was in Boston on business a week or so ago, and he came to visit me to check out my set-up, so hopefully he will be able to tell me how his Elite compares.


Most comments I heard on the Elite were that it was marginally better, I have not heard that it is 'much' better for digital projectors. I will look into it though.


Regarding HD - it is unfortunate that CBS is the only network to embrace it, because their shows do suck. Sometimes I watch Becker or CSI, but that's about it.

However, if you use Satellite, the two movie channels would defintaly make Dish Network my pick over other services.

I have watched Gladiator about 4 times now in HD, I think it's a mediocre movie but it looks terrific. Titan AE was on this weekend, I watched it twice, even though it kinda sucks story-wise.

Soprano's in HD is really great too-- it is certainly worth checking out. HD gives me (and casual viewers) the biggest Wow factor that these projectors can produce.

Pretty much any time I am home I will watch whatever is in HD, it is that good, there just isn't enough of it to plan your system around it yet.


Sports in HD is fantastic as well, unfortunately it's mostly golf so far, even so, I have watched every hole.


DG

 

[Cameron]

Yeah my blown budget hasn't been from the projector. Accomadating a DILA projector has been a factor in the death of my budget however.


Too bad the Selecos and the DWIN weren't as good as we had hoped eh?


BTW, we have a little Sanyo here at work and it is a really nice little projector for $$$. It is so small compared to my DILA I can just imagine mounting it on the ceiling without and sweat and tears unlike my current situation. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif



Cameron


------------------

-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --

 

[DanHouck]

Cameron:


"Too bad the Selecos and the DWIN weren't as good as we had hoped eh?"


AMEN!


I think the killer DLP projector will have to include the twelve degree rotation mirrors and the spiral color wheel. The first will raise the contrast significantly and the second will raise the light output by (if I remember correctly) more than double.


But I do envy your D-ILA!


Dan

 

[randmac]

Dan,


My screen is 123" diagonal, 107"x60", 16:9, microperforated, no masking.


There was a small but not insignificant amount of ambient light in the room.


My friend was really pleased with his PLV60/Grayhawk combination and has ordered a 96"x54" with horizontal masking. He does not require microperfs for his installation. I think he will be sitting about 14-15 feet from his screen.


------------------

Randy

G20/CI/GrayHawk

 

[Jim Story]

Randy,

Could you please give more details about the comparison

between the PLV 60 and your G20?

Thank you.


------------------

Jim Story

Live long and Prosper

 

[DanHouck]

DanG:


Would love to have a G20 but no way to get rid of the heat. That's a pretty amazing price, though. I wonder what's wrong with it?


The more I look at it, the more I think this projector is so bright it would benefit from the 0.8 gain of the very gray Da-Lite High Contrast. I'm afraid we're going to get a sunburn from it! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


What I'm going to end up with is most likely the 21N with the Panamorph and a new DVD player. I'm still a little confused as to how the pieces fit together. Does the Quadscan do stuff like 3/2 pulldown and conversion to progressive scan? Or do I need to get a DVD player that does this?


I'll be using digital cable. Do I need to process this signal or just go straight in thru the S video connection? I was planning on using the component ins for the DVD connection.


It would be really nice if I could forgo the Quadscan for now and hook a progressive scan DVD player with 3/2 pulldown up through the component ports and run the cable through the S video. But would the picture suffer too much without the scaler?


Dan

 

[randmac]

A friend just got a PLV60 last Friday. He brought it by my house to see how it looked on a Grayhawk before he ordered his screen.


In the short time we had to look at it, I was very impressed. At 13 feet from a 107" wide image the screen door was almost undetectable. The picture was bright, smooth, and the colors compared well to my calibrated DILA. We looked at DVD though a crytal image at 1366x768 and HDTV via both DirecTV and OTA.


Compared to the DILA, it was small, quiet, and ran cooler. At half the price of my DILA, I think this is a fantastic HT PJ...


------------------

Randy

G20/CI/GrayHawk

 

[DanHouck]

Randy:


Was that 107" wide or diagonal? If wide, that's a pretty big screen!


How much light did you have in the room?


Dan

 

[Dan G]

Dan H.,

Yes, I have black bars top & bottom.

They look good, not as black as the night sky, for sure, and not as black as my hands shadow when I get close, but black enough for me. Kinda like a black T Shirt thats been washed a buncha times.


If you are fanatical about it you might want masking.

However, once there is an image, the contrast is so good that blacks look really black (in the image at least).


I am pretty picky about a lot of stuff, and the black bars never bothered me (seemed to light). Though, of course, now I will investigate....


I will let you know what I hear about the Elite. I think the regular Quadscan is pretty exemplary. Especially with conditioned power to it and the projector, the image really improves, the light bar on the side from the panel edge reflection almost disappears when feeding it pure 115V with low THD (I am using an Elgar Laboratory conditioner to provide clean power to my video stuff).


The wife ain;t gonna wanna bump around the LR in the dark whi;le you watch TV, which means the 2500 lumens will make her happier too- she can read her paper in the same room while you watch.


I bet the Greyhawk would help the black for you too.

I would encourage you to buy incrementally, jsut to prolong your "new toy" pleasure, I think getting everything at once takes away from that a bit.


check www.audiogon.com

Guy selling a G20 with a Quadscan Elite Scaler for $10k, but I bet he would negotiate down (he won;t get many offers there for his projector I don;t think)


dg

 

[Knuck]

Dan H:


If you go for the XP30 you won't need the quadscan. Perhaps some XP21 owners can tell you if you need it with the XP21.

I demoed the XP30 and posted pics in an earlier post comparing the quadscan, its own internal scaler and an HTPC. I liked the picture better with the internal processor than the quadscan and slightly preferred the HTPC over the internal scaler.


If you have the extra bucks the extra brightness plus DVI input are a bonus. I tested the DVI input and found it superior to the RGB or component inputs through the HTPC.


The only drawback is the 4:3 panel. I'm not sure if its panamorphable.


If you are going to watch alot of 16:9 material you will need a black mask around the screen. If this is not an option for you, you may be better off with the PLV60.


Although the PLV 60 has higher resolution I preferred the XP30 image across the board, even with HDTV 1080i material.


Good luck


Brian.

 

[DanHouck]

Knuck:


It's my understanding it is Panamorphable and I will soon have a 752 as I was in the second prebuy. So the black bars will be black when watching 16:9.


How good is the XP30 with NTSC, say digital cable?


Dan

 

[Cain]

Hi Dan, I'm also hanging out/on with you trying to decide on a projector, I started this last October!.


I'm almost ready to try the DILA, but I want to see one of the newest projectors before I make the leap.


I too am wondering how the Sony 11HT will look, and also wondering about the new DLP projector.


Keep us all posted on which projectors you get to see and how they look.


Take care,


-- Cain