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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After all the huffing and puffing I did about no CRT projectors when I was looking for advice on buying a cheap one, I should probably hang my head in shame before coming in here to ask some questions. However, I have no shame (momma didn't teach us no sense), so I will do it anyway. :)


I guess there really isn't a halfway decent digital projector that will handle HDTV in my price range of less than $800. So, when someone (who is local and reputable) approached me about an Electrohome 8110, I did some Google-ing and searches here to discover that it is considered a pretty decent projector by many.


I'd like to know what questions I should be asking when I go to look at it. It's my understanding that the PJ works fine but that the green tube has some burn-in that is visible on a white raster (was originally used for some sort of computer graphics application and I guess they liked to use green a lot). The other tubes are supposed to be ok.


If I did want to get the green tube replaced, what's involved in that and what kind of expense can I anticipate? Might it be worth putting up with the burn in for a while, until I can afford to get it fixed?


I know that it will have to be set up once I get it here. Is that a job I can do myself if I am willing to take the time to work on it and learn how to do it or am I realistically talking about needing to have someone come here and set it up for me? At what expense?


What else should I be asking? If I am going to consider this projector, are there others I should be considering which I realistically might be able to buy in the same price range (including shipping) that have similar performance?


Now, as far as my room goes:


Most likely, I will have to mount this on the floor and hope it slips under my coffee table at least part way (which I think it will). If that is the case, it means I'll have some sort of drop-down screen about 8 feet from the front of the projector and I will be sitting behind it another 5 feet. At least in the beginning, I was planning to make a DIY screen out of that Parkland Plastics material everyone was talking about, because a friend has a spare piece of it and it looks easy to work with.


There is no way for me to make the room dark except at night, so I will be using the projector only in the evening. I have another TV to watch during the day and I plan to have the screen drop down in front of it or on some kind of stand that I can set up in front of it. At night, not much light comes in from outside and I can dim down the lights in the room or turn them off completely.


So, what do you guys think? Should I dive into this?


If anyone wants to email me directly, you can get me at [email protected]


Mongo
 

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As a newbie don't bother with any projector that needs work. There are plenty out there that are good and don't need anything but setup for that price. Lurk for deals, call A/V/ rental places to see what they have collecting dust in the back, curt palme's used PJ list, classified ads. If buying sight unseen make sure it's from a reputable source. If you can go and inspect, check and doule check the tubes for condition.


Setup and convergance of any PJ with good docs and digital convergance should be pretty easy. That goes for the barco 800+, sony 12xx, EH ??. Ampros require either an expensive remote or a computer to setup ( serial connector ).


I took the plunge and do not regret it. for $300 I got a used 1252 that someone wanted to get rid of. Tubes were good ( one blemish that is barley noticible and 4:3 wear on the blue ). Personally I wanted to get digital, but they are just not as cost effective as CRT ( I'm a cheap lazy ******* ). While waiting for a Keydigital transcoder ( rp-56 + transcoder ) I'm feeding it from a spare interlaced DVD through s-video and the quality it still excellent. HTPC's fissyness and microjitters drive me crazy I've tried ( see cost effective point above ).


But...


consitering the size and light control problems.... why go FP at all? Your money would be much wiser invested in a good WS HDTV RP TV. Remeber it's all about watching movies, if it costs too much what's the fun anymore?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply. I kind of doubt that I would ever find a HDTV rear projector that actually worked in my price range, so that isn't an option.


I don't mind the idea of using the projector only at night, because that's when I watch movies anyway. I don't have the time to sit and concentrate on one during the day and I do have a good 36" RCA HDTV that I paid practically nothing for which I can watch during the day.


Next time I move, I'll try to find a place where I can have a room for the projector and do it the right way. Right now, I just want something decent and cheap.


Mongo
 

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Mongo, you don't know what you're getting yourself into here.


You may think you want an $800.00 PJ with a little drop-down screen. But be warned. If you buy this, a year or so from now you'll be cashin in the stocks and looking for a 9" "something-or-other", busting out walls, soldering video cards, modifying fans, stringing cable, and obsessing over gain, ftLamberts, black level, etc.


Oh - and you will never enjoy your local Carmike theater again.


Just so you know.:)


Joe
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Heheheh. Yeah, I am already in the process of that. I started out finding a deal on a 27" Princeton HD-capable monitor and then found the RCA 36" and was quite happy with that until my friend Jack got himself a JVC G1000 and had me over to help him tweak it and watch a few movies.


After experiencing some HDTV on his huge screen, it's either get my own or start buying stock in bulbs for the G1000! LOL


It's a sickness....
 

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just a couple short comments ---


if you "floor mount" --- you will want to put it on a coffee table, at about your elbow's height when seated.


you will probably want to seat next too your PJ. Right next to it is the best seating relative to your screen... but it is hard to hold hands across the PJ with your loved one. This is why most everyone strives to mount the darned thing on the ceiling, and sit right under it.


Good luck
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jamoka
If you buy this, a year or so from now you'll be cashin in the stocks and looking for a 9" "something-or-other", busting out walls, soldering video cards, modifying fans, stringing cable, and obsessing over gain, ftLamberts, black level, etc.
Joe,


You got that right! I've had six projectors in the last 14 months! Four were digitals though, just for experimentation. Soon to have a 9" Ampro, which should be a lot of fun.


--Jerome
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Pocatello
just a couple short comments ---


if you "floor mount" --- you will want to put it on a coffee table, at about your elbow's height when seated.


you will probably want to seat next too your PJ. Right next to it is the best seating relative to your screen... but it is hard to hold hands across the PJ with your loved one. This is why most everyone strives to mount the darned thing on the ceiling, and sit right under it.


Good luck
How about putting it on a tall stand behind the sofa, with the screen up higher? That, I could probably do. I don't think ceiling mount is in the cards as this is a rental and I am not sure how long I am going to be here past July.
 

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I've thought about the same things. In my room, I can't put it behind me, because it would be too far from the screen. But that might work great for you.


Actually, your idea is one that I pondered for many hours. I just decided that, for now, I can't do that.
 

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One more thing... I thought it would be easy (and within specs) to tilt the PJ up (if mounted on the floor) or down (if mounted on the ceiling), but I learned that you are not supposed to do that.


The PJ should sit flat (if on the floor) or hang flat from the ceiling. Tilting is bad (for reasons that elude me, since I am not a techno wiz).
 

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The only thing I can think of that might be a problem with unorthodox throw angles is achieving uniform focus. If you are tilting the projector then you are are also tilting the plane in which image appears, which can bisect the screen plane. That's certainly not an authoritative view by any means. I've never tried it for myself either so I could be wrong.


Edit: Geometry might be a problem, too. On the other hand, Art Sonneborn has a pair of Runco 991's, I believe, in a side by side setup angled in towards the screen. I would guess the challenges there are similar, but his projectors have a slight angle, so it probably isn't that much of a problem.

Art's Stacked Runcos


--Jerome
 

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Right Jerome...


stacking PJs is possible, and for some, a very desirable option. I don't know whether such an arrangement "pushes" the PJs more than a standard configuration. From what I have read here, I would guess that it would.
 

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Pocatello,


Just to be clear, my point was not about stacking per se. I was merely thinking about why tilting a projector to an unorthodox throw angle might be a problem. Then it occured to me that side by side stacking presents similar issues but in the horizontal plane. So it was really a case of me thinking (and typing) out loud. :)


I suppose you could tilt it, but I think it would be problematic for the reasons I stated.


--Jerome
 

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Sony's 12xx lenses can be adjusted for anywhere from 14 to 0 degrees of throw angle.
 

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Snowmoon,


Interesting. Thanks for pointing that out.


--Jerome
 

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I have my Sony at 2 degrees relative angle (flat to the roof it's 12 degrees)


This is a good thing as the phospher usage is much better than normal as the amount of keystone is greatly reduced.


Zero degrees to the phospher plane would appear to be optimum and would minimize a keystone shaped wear burn and light output.


I suppose the best situation is zero degrees relative to the screen but then it wqould be at head height or slightly lower. No thanks.


Graham
 

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Graham,


Did you have trouble achieving good edge focus on the top and bottom edges? According to my rusty trig, with your 2 degree down angle, if you were running a 16:9 screen with 590mm half height - that is, 2000mm wide - the top and bottom edges of the focal plane would be 20mm out of register. I would have thought that'd be enough to give distinct top and bottom edge softness if you've got your focus really good?


So, is edge softness a problem in your setup?


- David Eddy
 

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dje,


that's where the Scheimpflug adjustments come in, if the plane of the

crt's, lenses and screen are coincident at some point...(infinity is a point)

then the image should be in focus across the entire field.


Erie Patsellis
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well, last night I went to see the projector. It appeared to be in good shape overall. Very clean and only 1700 hours on the chassis. BUT...


The green tube was more than just a little burned in. It was etched in with what looked like a schematic diagram of some sort. Whomever had this projector originally obviously did not know what NOT to do and they ruined a perfectly good tube.


There was also some evidence of etching on the blue tube and almost none on the red one. I thought the red one was a little weak in comparison but it was hard to tell if that was just because the unit was badly set up (and it was pretty bad) or if the tube itself had problems.


The real issue though was that green tube. The etched-in image was so strong that you could see it on everything. I think the blue tube, even though it did show _some_ indication of the etching, would have been tolerable once the thing was calibrated. Same for the red tube. You could see reds in the picture but the green and blue were up so high in comparison that it didn't look right.


But, even with all the faults and with the thing not converged or focused properly, I could see the potential and I was able to compare it with a "good" LCD projector and there was no comparison. I guess you guys were right all along. There was a quality to the CRT image (even as bad as it was) which told you how incredibly good it wouldl look if it was just tweaked a little.


So, what to do now? Anyone know of a good source of used (but decent) tubes? I saw the prices on new and rebuilt ones and they would place this project WAY out of my price range.


I have someone who could do the tube replacement if we could get the tube itself cheaply enough.


If anyone has some info to share or is a dealer for such items, please either post it here or send me an email at the address in the first post. I know there are rules about dealers selling stuff here, but I think it's ok for other folks to recommend sources, right?


Oh, and BTW, we were having so much fun that we ended up spending a couple of hours at the guy's place just talking projectors and looking at stuff. So, it was not a wasted trip and I might still end up buying it if I can figure out how to buy it and the parts within my budget.


Mongo
 

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But for $800 + parts for 2 tubes you might as well have just gotten a good unit from curt or eric.
 
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