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OK !!! Winner -->>> Mark Levinson 335 AMP...what are your thoughts ?

13618 Views 19 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  adidadi
I have tested lots of different amps lately, it came down to the ML 335 or the PASS LABS X300. I am really leaning towards the ML.


I have also tested Classe, Bryston, have not tested Krell yet.


Both the ML 335 or the PASS LABS X300 have a very sweet sound stage on 2 chn, beautiful detail and are peices of art to boot !


But as this will be the most expensive item in my setup, I want to make sure I am not missing anything...


Any thoughts or comments would be appriciated, especially if you own one of these !!




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Thanks.....Matt

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I'm definitely biased since I own the 335. But I do have a bit of listening experience with Pass gear also. My brother owns a Pass single ended amp, as did a good friend of mine (until he very recently switched to tubed BAT monos). And I've heard the X350, X600 and X1000 a few times at shows and occasionally in stores. I've also owned lots of tubed and solid state amps along the way, including Krell.


I think Nelson Pass is a gem (and a genius) but I do prefer the 335/336 and 33H to his latest X series. I won't bore you with all of the many details but here are a couple of my highlights in no particular order:


The 335 is the most spacious solid state amp I've ever auditioned or owned. It gives the best tubes a very serious run for the money. But as reviewer Myles Astor says, what impresses you most about the 335/336 is its absolute consistency. It sounds exactly the same whether you're listening to chamber music or giant orchestral pieces. It does not change its timbre with the music or volume level.


It is very, very, slightly dark in character in that the top end has slightly less air and "sparkle" than some other amps. I personally prefer this sound as I find many other "high end" amplifiers hot on top -- they have that audiphile tube glare that is initially very impressive but has you squirming and reaching for the volume control within a few minutes. With the 335, I am not aware of any loss of detail, however. I note this possible coloration just so that you're aware of it.


Some people may also find the midrange a hair recessed compared to a good tube amp. When I first set up my 335, voices seemed a tiny bit back in the mix, if you know what I mean. I found that room set up and preamp choice compensated completely for this deficiency. The addition of Argent Room Lens to my set up was especially important in my problematic room. I would also note that many tubed amps exaggerate the mids, making them overly prominent at the expense of the rest of the frequency range -- the result is a seductive sound on female voice but not much else. In any event, even those who note this characteristic, have no complaints about the detail and poignant beauty of the 335's midrange which otherwise has no equal in solid state equipment. It's really quite astonishing for transistors.


Unfortunately, to get the best out of the 335, it really should be matched with a 380S or, if you can afford it, the Reference No.32 (which is truly a special piece -- the single greatest piece of equipment in the ML line right now, IMO -- it redefines what can be accomplished by solid state preamps in terms of detail and transparency and makes the very good 380S sound broken). I've tried other units, including the CJ ART (which did some interesting things in the midrange but left the bass tubby and imprecise), but the ML preamps work best. Which only figures.


A close second to an ML preamp feeding the 335 would be no preamp! A Wadia front end directly feeding the 335 is a great combination that I've tried. But note that the Wadia feeding a Levinson preamp feeding a 335 doesn't work nearly as well as the Wadia alone. I would not recommend the Wadia if you require a preamp in your system. It's not the same machine set up that way, IMO.


Then of course, there's that phenomenal Levinson resale value. I've bought and sold just about everything. But on average, nothing sells as quickly or for as much as ML gear. Dealers I know often complain how difficult ML is to deal with and how their quality control isn't quite what it used to be (more so with Proceed than with Levinson), but as a consumer, you can see that I have absolutely no complaints.


I find that Levinson amps work best with networked cables such as MIT and Transparent. If you have a thing against cables with networks, then Kimber Select works superbly as well.


I see I've gone on too long, to say the least. Sorry. My vote is for the 335. God help your wallet if you hear this amp with a Watt/Puppy 6 or Revel Salon.


Good luck.




[This message has been edited by PF (edited July 25, 2000).]
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PF,


My god, are you describing a good wine or an amp ? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



I am happy to hear that we have come to the same conclusion, re the mids and vocals when running the 335 !! However, my ProAcs accentuates a strong mid range (one of it many good points) and the 335 seems to balance it all out beautifully, I found that the 335 just gushes out with no effort.



I run a Proceed AVP as a pre and am very happy with it, I personally think that it would be a good combo.


I hear you about the watts. I was at a demo in montreal, they ran an AVP with a PMDT (which I also own) hooked up to 3 x ML No 33 amps hooked up to Wilson Slamms....


I drouled & nearly passed out, and my wife said those first magical words a man in this hobby can only dream of... she said " Are those M-O-N-O-B-L-O-C-K-S ??? , they sound amazing "


Anyway, I also tested out the 334, nice piece, but it ain't got what the 335 has, and the 336 and the No. 33, well that's anothe story.


Out of all the Amps, I did find that the Pass X series sounded the most like tubes, the lows on the ML 335 were tighter, it could be the speakers I don't remember, I think they were NHT 2.9 /3.3 attached to the Pass X300.


Matt


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Thanks.....Matt

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Matt,


I should have mentioned that I have heard a couple of different Proac floor standers with the 336. I almost bought the Proacs as a result! I was totally surprised by the quality of what I heard. Previoulsy I had heard Proacs with lots of ARC gear which everyone seems to recommend. I've also heard them with CJ, Krell, and others. But to me, they never sounded so good as when paired with the Levinson. You've got one the great combinations, IMO.


If you heard the Wilsons set up by Graeme, then you've heard the best that you'll ever hear them. He's one of the world's great set up men -- better than the Wilson reps themselves. I've heard many systems he's done, in store and at customer homes. He's a true magician.

PF,


This is really funny, when I tested the ML 335 they were hooked up to the ProAcs, this is why it was such a revelation, I bought them in the Burr Oak, which is a special order. Beautiful piece of furniture when in Burr.


Yup, that's the setup....I see Graeme every time I am in Montreal, what a character, he definitly knows about the business, If anyone ever gets a chance to visit the Montreal HiFi show, you owe it to yourself to do so, an visit Graeme's setup, probably one of the best around and he is very much respected.


Everytime I speak to him, unless its a ML 33H, ML transport or whatever, he says" its all the same crap"... for health reasons, don't ever mention surround sound or DTS..a tad ecentric but funny..


The AVP supports a trigger and has phast connection capability as does the ML 335, I wonder if they interact ??


thanks PF


------------------

Thanks.....Matt

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Matt,


That's Graeme. He's got great talent. I understand that he's starting to get some big time customers at his recording studio, too.


My brother lives in Hull, by the way. He's running a Pass amp and an ARC LS15 with Dunlavy speakers and an REL sub. He mostly uses a VPI turntable as a source.


You Ottawa audiophiles need to stick together.


Paul
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Don't let me interupt but I am just getting my feel wet in high end audio.

I would like to have a suggestion for a two channel amp for around 1500-2000 range to pair with a Theta Casa Nova.
Nathan,


Tubes or transistors? And what are your speakers?


[This message has been edited by PF (edited July 27, 2000).]
Solid State.


I only have pinnacles but am open to suggestions. Plan to upgrade to Aerials, Magnepans, Martin Logan, or ???


My pinnacles are the Gold Classic Reference Line. Only 400 each but I am working on the front end of my system. I will have to spend thousands to get the speakers I want.


I need an amp that can bring a little hapiness to my life. I am looking at Classe or Mark Levinson amps around 1500. ML-27 or ML-9 also Classe Ca-101.


Help me with my two channel.
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Nathan, my boy, for those speakers you need power and sweetness!


So, if you're looking at a used amp for $2000, I'd buy a ML No.23, not the 27 and definitely not the No.9. (I wouldn't pay more than $1900 for it by the way, unless it was truly in museum condition, which is unlikely.) More power and a great sweet sound with Maggies and Martin Logans and Thiels (and Quads of all things) to name a few of the better pairings. That's an amp that you will be truly proud to own and will give you years and years of satisfaction.


And if you get really, really lucky, you just may find a Levinson 23.5 for only a couple of hundred dollars more. The nice thing is, if you take care of it, you'll get just about every penny back at resale time, whether you buy the 23 or the 23.5.


Good luck.
Matt:

This is just a suggestion, before you commit your $ to the Levinson please do yourself a favor and listen to the Jeff Rowland Model 10 amplifier.


It is so beautiful, gorgeous, stunning (have I left out any adjectives?)in both sound and looks you just might get hooked as I did.


On the surface it's not as powerful as the Levinson 335 (150 watts comepared to I believe 250 for the ML335) but it has a switchmode power supply and is more powerful than the numbers suggest.


Go to the website at jeffrowland.com where you can read about the technology and see photos .

Mark,


I completely agree about the Rowland. A friend of mine was all set to buy the Linn Klimax when I told him to check out the Rowland. It's much better sounding IMO in a non-Linn system and is even more beautiful, too boot (no mean feat because the Linn's pretty darn sleek).


It runs cool and sounds superb, but I personally prefer the Levinson sound a bit especially with Thiels as Wibe points out. If I were constrained by size and space, I'd buy the Rowland tomorrow, though. What a great product.


Paul


C R A P ! ! !


Went back to Montreal and listened to the Pass X350 again with some CDs that I own...It was beautiful,simply astounding sound stage and also very nice.


It is 100 watts more then the 335 (at 350w) performs so nicely. They were hooked up to Dynaudio speakers..


why did I do this... ?


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Thanks.....Matt

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Howabout the Plinus SA250 for this price range?


Rob


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Migliore Theater
Matt, If your speakers are hard to drive I would not recommend the Rowland otherwise it's an outstanding amp(this is from a dealer, not me). I was looking at the Rowland and the dealer told me that my Dynaudio Confidence Threes would need more juice. He did say it's one of the very best amps he carries if it can drive your speakers, just not for power hungry speakers. Just thought I'd Pass(little joke) that along. Ever heard of Sim Audio?

Nice stuff for the $.

That's all,Scott
In regards to the amps, and preamps, I have to say that after all the upgrading possible, I have reached my absolute pinnacle of expectations, and then some. I purchased a Mark Levinson 336 with the 39 CD player going straight in with balanced, reference Nordost interconnects. The 336 feeds a pair of Dynaudio Contour 3.3's via Nordost reference speaker cables. I can't even begin to describe how it sounds. I think it would be greedy to ever want to possibly hear an improvement. I'll go as far as saying that I heard the JM Labs Grande Utopias driven by Krell Reference Monoblocks and the $20,000.00 CD/Preamp, and I can honestly say that the law of diminishing return is in full force. I actually thought that the only reason to opt for the Krell scenario, is if you have a massive room. Only then would I choose it over my system having heard both.


The Levinson / Dynaudio combo reaches perfection. Any improvements need to be performed on room accoustics from here on. It has soooo much bass slam, the clarity is phenomenal, and of course; the imaging is as if the performance was live. What more could a person want.


Regarding the speakers, Dynaudio supplies drivers for all the best speaker manufacturers, so we can understand why they themselves would have the best speakers. I preferred them over the Wilson Watt Puppies. Wilson makes great speakers, but they buy the drivers from Dynaudio. I have heard most of the speakers mentioned in this thread and have owned B & W's, Martin Logans Requests, Von Schweikert, etc... Nothing compares to a Dynaudio properly driven. Levinson certainly delivers. I also think that the simplicity of the 39 acting as CD, D/A and preamp with only one connection to the amp has incredible benefits.


I feel I could not upgrade again, or ever downgrade again. It is just PERFECT.
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Regarding the speakers, Dynaudio supplies drivers for all the best speaker manufacturers, so we can understand why they themselves would have the best speakers. I preferred them over the Wilson Watt Puppies. Wilson makes great speakers, but they buy the drivers from Dynaudio.

============================================================ ===============


Actually the Wilson Watt Puppies drivers are sourced from Focal for the tweeter, Scanspeak for the midrange, and I can't remember whose bass driver they use.


I switched out my Mark Levinson amps for the Llano Design Trinity series which make the MLs just sound silly. A lot cheaper too.


[This message has been edited by Deniz Mutlu (edited August 03, 2000).]
You are right I'm sure. I thought it was either Dynaudio or Focal. Did not know about Scanspeak. In any case, I love the Dynaudio. I checked out Llano Design's web site. Quite interesting. I am pretty much done with 2 channel as far as upgrading is concerned. Thanks for the correction.
Not that many will care ....but I am really excited !!!


I just put down a chunk o'change and ordered the Mark Levinson No 336..yes a 336.

I had initially aimed for the 335, but then I thought, if I am this crazy to spend that much $$$ on an amp, might as well go all the way !!!


There were many great amps out there...I just thought the ML would fit my system better !


Best thing, they are delivering it and will set it up, I won't have to get a neighbor and risk back injury to get this beast in ...


Will get it late in September when my room is finished...Tuesday, they are closing up my floor and roughing in my A/V rack...starting to take shape !


...thanks for letting me share ...


------------------

Thanks.....Matt

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As a ML 336 owner, all I can say is: "You rule". Made the right choice. This amp is truly a champ. Best power and balls I've ever heard. In a more refined statement: "Truly outstanding, smooth highs, great visceral impact, and tremendous, clean low end."

Enjoy


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