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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Right now I'm debating on which Panasonic plasma to get with my tax return, but am having a very hard time settling on one of their models.


I will be getting a PS3 with the TV as well, so I'm thinking that I should definitely get one with 1080p so I can actually enjoy BluRay...but based on this article and my living room setup, I guess I won't even be able to detect 1080p with the size TV I'm wanting to get?

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter


Based on my price range and living room size, I can only really afford to get a 42-46 inch TV, and with my seating being around 7-8' away from where my TV will sit, it would take around a 55-60 inch TV just for me to start NOTICING 1080p...is this true?


In comparison, apparently at my viewing distance and TV size, 720p will actually be at it's peak performance.


In short, will getting a 42-46" TV @1080p be worth it when my seating is around 7-8' away? And will BluRay look crappy on 720p since it's designed for 1080p?


Man this HDTV is too complicated...
 

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First Bluray will look very good on a 720P set. Anything you watch over the air will be at 1080i or 720p. At your viewing distance and picture size the 1080p will not make a big difference. That said if I were you I would skip getting the Ps3 at this time and I would get a bigger TV with 1080p and then save up and get the PS3 later. That will likely eliminate an upgrade in a year or two on the TV and the TV prices are very attractive at this time.


The most basic advice is don't buy too small of a TV and buy the biggest TV you can afford.
 

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I can tell you from my experience with the 46" c2 720p looks great at 8' away. I too have a ps3 and wondered how bluray would look and I can tell you they look fantastic. I'm not saying you wouldn't notice 1080p but it really comes down to what your budget is. If I could of afforded a 1080p tv I would of bought it but I'm glad I couldn't afford it because its hard to imagine a tv looking so much better that it warrants hundreds of dollars more. This is just my opinion and everyone has one so you will have to sort through them and figure out what is going to make you happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, in terms of size, 46" is the max I'm willing to go. We don't have a huge living room, and I don't want to have this gigantic TV in the corner of the room...so 46" sounds about right for me.


At that size, I can get the C2 off Amazon for about $650 with free shipping and a 3 year protection plan. To get that with the S2, it would be about $200 more. Can't decide if that's worth the extra amount, considering that extra money will almost buy me a PS3.


Also of note is that I'm currently using a 27" SDTV, so I'm by no means a HDTV guru..more like a virgin, so I may not even be able to appreciate the difference between 720p and 1080.


Now as I understand it, the C2 doesn't really have a anti-glare filter, is that correct? So, could I use my current SDTV as a good guide for how the reflections in my room would affect the Plasma? There will be windows on either side of my TV, and right now with all the lights off, I can see the right window on my SDTV...would it show up even more so on the plasma?
 

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.. this thread might be useful; also, with proper light control (shades/curtains), you may be able to control the light.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...onic+c2+filter



p.s. member Randy is resident Panasonic guru in addition to being able to see S. Korea from his balcony. Believe he's a left-over relic fm the Six Million Dollar man series. Seems he doing commercials now.
 

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yes you will... depends on your vision, but I dont believe the charts..I can see much better I guess.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by testament0221 /forum/post/19592913


Right now I'm debating on which Panasonic plasma to get with my tax return, but am having a very hard time settling on one of their models.


I will be getting a PS3 with the TV as well, so I'm thinking that I should definitely get one with 1080p so I can actually enjoy BluRay...but based on this article and my living room setup, I guess I won't even be able to detect 1080p with the size TV I'm wanting to get?

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter


Based on my price range and living room size, I can only really afford to get a 42-46 inch TV, and with my seating being around 7-8' away from where my TV will sit, it would take around a 55-60 inch TV just for me to start NOTICING 1080p...is this true?

No, it's not true; you, apparently, read the chart backwards.



It looks to me, that at 7 ft., one would need a 60" TV, to get the full benefit of 1080p.


Since you can only afford, at most, a 46" TV, then, at 7 ft., it looks like, you would get ~40% benefit of 1080p; having tested 1080p TVs at varying distances, that much benefit would be well worth it, IMHO.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdntrxi /forum/post/19593238


yes you will... depends on your vision, but I dont believe the charts..I can see much better I guess.

I agree, I can see better than the chart suggests, also.
The writer of the chart thinks we all have the same visual acuity; unless there is a disclaimer in the article, I don't remember. Without seeing a disclaimer on the chart, though, I can only assume that the chart represents people with average vision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, I've seen the 42" model of the C2 at Walmart, and overall I liked the picture even when compared to the 1080p sets they had on display. However, the signal all the TV's are getting must have been split dozens of times, so it's impossible to get a real sense of the difference between 720 and 1080p up there.


So I guess I'll have to take a trip to the city when I'm ready to buy and maybe go to Best Buy where they'll have better image quality on their TV's, and properly compare 720p vs 1080p.


I mean, I want quality, and I want something that's going to last. But I don't want to get suckered by marketing ploys either. If I'm paying almost $200 extra for 1080p, I want it to be noticeably better, not something that may or may not be noticeable at X distance or with Y vision rating.
 

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Another factor is that the chart shows '720p', which, at the standard, is 1280x720p; whereas, the so-called '720p' plasmas are a lesser resolution of 1024x768p. Though, as the previous poster said, basically, that the resolution isn't everything.


At 46", the Panasonic plasma is the only plasma; (and then there are plenty of LCDs of course), all at 1920x1080p.


Also, note, that any so-called '720p' LCDs are also not 1280x720p, they have more resolution, being 1366x768p; however, very few, (if any), are competing at plasma sizes; and, anyway, those LCDs looked worse than the competing plasmas, anyway.


At 42", the LCDs are 1920x1080p, whereas only Panasonic makes (some of their) 42" plasmas at that resolution, with the rest being 1024x768p, as I said. Nevertheless, if you don't sit too close, then, in general, a 1024x768p plasma would best a 1080x1920p LCD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by testament0221 /forum/post/19593418


Well, I've seen the 42" model of the C2 at Walmart, and overall I liked the picture even when compared to the 1080p sets they had on display. However, the signal all the TV's are getting must have been split dozens of times, so it's impossible to get a real sense of the difference between 720 and 1080p up there.


So I guess I'll have to take a trip to the city when I'm ready to buy and maybe go to Best Buy where they'll have better image quality on their TV's, and properly compare 720p vs 1080p.


I mean, I want quality, and I want something that's going to last. But I don't want to get suckered by marketing ploys either. If I'm paying almost $200 extra for 1080p, I want it to be noticeably better, not something that may or may not be noticeable at X distance or with Y vision rating.

The chart is directionally accurate. Human vision does not vary that much, so a person who thinks they can see 1080P vs 720P on a 42" display at 15 feet, probably is "mistaken" to politely put it.



There are other reasons to buy a better display, but for 46" and smaller displays at distances greater than 8 feet or so, you may be very pleased with a 720P unit.


Try this at a retail store....


Most stores display by size, so you probably can find 42 to 46" sets from the same brand very close to each other.


If possible see if the set can be adjusted to deliver a similar picture. (Brightness, color, contrast, etc.)


Using the example of Panasonic 42S2 (1080p) vs 42C2 (720p), you will notice that you can see the coarser pixel structure from a few feet away.


Back up about 15 feet, and you see that you cannot see that pixel structure any longer. Now... move closer until you can just see that structure on the 720P set... Most likely you will be pretty close to the set. (6 feet perhaps?) If that is closer than you will watch, and you are otherwise happy with the 720p set, you will likely be happy with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy60467 /forum/post/19593470


The chart is directionally accurate. Human vision does not vary that much, so a person who thinks they can see 1080P vs 720P on a 42" display at 15 feet, probably is "mistaken" to politely put it.



There are other reasons to buy a better display, but for 46" and smaller displays at distances greater than 8 feet or so, you may be very pleased with a 720P unit.


Try this at a retail store....


Most stores display by size, so you probably can find 42 to 46" sets from the same brand very close to each other.


If possible see if the set can be adjusted to deliver a similar picture. (Brightness, color, contrast, etc.)


Using the example of Panasonic 42S2 (1080p) vs 42C2 (720p), you will notice that you can see the coarser pixel structure from a few feet away.


Back up about 15 feet, and you see that you cannot see that pixel structure any longer. Now... move closer until you can just see that structure on the 720P set... Most likely you will be pretty close to the set. (6 feet perhaps?) If that is closer than you will watch, and you are otherwise happy with the 720p set, you will likely be happy with the results.

Hmm, I'll have to give this a try.


One feature I noticed that was missing from the C2 was "Game Mode"....will this be a good thing to have for PS3 gaming? I have no idea how that would affect gaming, so I don't know if it's a feature I would miss.


In all honesty, coming from a 20 year old SDTV, I don't very seriously that I'm going to be disappointed with ANY HDTV. let alone something like 720p vs. 1080p. However, I don't want to feel ripped off, or like I'm missing out on some super spectacular viewing experience that 1080p offers.


I mean, worse case scenario I get the C2, like it, but end up turning it into a bedroom TV and getting 1080p next tax season.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 /forum/post/19593354


I agree, I can see better than the chart suggests, also.
The writer of the chart thinks we all have the same visual acuity; unless there is a disclaimer in the article, I don't remember. Without seeing a disclaimer on the chart, though, I can only assume that the chart represents people with average vision.

which is actually worse for us... because we have to spend more money
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by videoguy60467
The chart is directionally accurate. Human vision does not vary that much, so a person who thinks they can see 1080P vs 720P on a 42" display at 15 feet, probably is "mistaken" to politely put it.
Human vision varies enough that one shouldn't try to read exact values from the chart. It is best used more as a guideline to demonstrate the importance of the screen size to view distance ratio. While 20:20 is the the "standard" minimum visual acuity that does not require corrective lenses, the average visual acuity is closer to 20:15. The values on the chart also seem to be calculated for 20:20 and not determined by experimental trials.
 

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Since the price of the C2 is not far off from the u2 or s2...its worth getting a 1080p set. What if you sit closer to it in the future? What if you have alot of people over and some are sitting close? Maybe you will move the tv into a smaller room in the future?


Any way you slice it...it would be worth the extra resolution. You are talking about 786,000 pixels (panasonic's 720p) vs 2,073,600 pixels (1080p).


Given that most all cable/sat channels ate 1080i, your set will be able to display the entire resolution of the channel, 1920x1080. Also, all blu rays are 1080.


I would say if you see a 46" panasonic 720p set and a 46" 1080p set and they are within a few hundred dollars of each other, its worth getting the 1080p panel regardless of how far you sit.


Then again, if you really feel like its a waste, then get 720p.
 
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