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@tnaik4 - hi sorry I missed your PM from a few days ago. If the Sim2 M150 has a similar color sensor, it would likely be located near the front of the lens.

there is a reflector in the light engine that directs light to the sensor. Can you post a photo of the projector with the case off?

How obvious is the color shift with the dimming that you are seeing? on the 750 I found it pretty distracting to the point where I would have likely kept it off if I didn't discover the color sensor and use it for greyscale calibration. now there is no detectable color shifts during the diming even with the more aggressive modes.

No worries , thanks for replying.

the color shifts are obvious when dynamic black is on to the point i prefer keeping it off, i contacted sim2 and they said that is how it works but i m not convinced because its easily detectable, and when i read ur post that u were getting color shifts with DB on i thought that might be whats causing it on mine . i will post a pic of inside the projector, if u need any different angle let me know .

thank you
 

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Sim2 Nero3D-2T2MB

I picked up a Nero3D-2T2MB this week just for kicks. Put a new bulb in the old lamp housing, updated the firmware, calibrated it, and I am now trying it out. Turns out it shares much of its internal electronics with my HT5000E. The Nero is a single chip 0.95 DLP projector with some enhanced features: variable iris, dynamic black, and lamp dimming among them. I haven't yet figured out the lamp dimming feature, but I'm pretty sure it has it.
Bottom line, the image is superb. Very quiet stable image, great motion. It does have its limitations that must be taken into account should one desire one of these beauties. First is light output. It's not a light cannon by any means. I'm getting 18fL on my 110" diag 1.78 1.3 gain screen. This is with a new lamp and iris wide open. This gives a extremely good 2D image indeed. However, it really shines on my 128" HP2.8 screen. Way over 100nits and allows use of the variable iris to improve contrast. And, it really shines on HDR with the HP2.8 screen. Tone mapping with the Radiance Pro works great with this projector.

Another limitation is possibly seeing rainbows. I saw rainbows on the early single chip designs, but I'm not very sensitive to them, and I don't see them ever with the Nero3D-2D. Not at all. My wife also doesn't see them as she wonders what I'm talking about.

The lens is very sharp and comparable to the HT5000E, except for a very slight amount of CA at image edges with the Nero when zoomed out. Definitely not visible at my seating position.
In summary, within its limitations, it's a superb projector. It's also 3D capable, but I have no interest in that, and haven't tried it out.


Now, I definitely need to reduce my inventory of projectors, LOL!
 

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Watched X-Men Apocalypse 4k hdr and this is a reference quality movie to show what a display is capable off color wise and my god i was stunned by what i am seeing, i just could not believe the intensity of the colors and the overall image quality, as soon as i finished the movie i fired it again on my oled and my jvc to compare and it s a big difference really, with titles like this that has this level of colors its just breathtaking. This must be the best projector for screens up to 110inch 16:9 , no wonder it was getting perfect 10 when it was released.
 
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Discussion Starter #824
variable iris, dynamic black, and lamp dimming among them.
The lamp dimming + auto-iris is a cool feature... Instead of just improving contrast at 0-1% it improves throughout the entire range.

However, it really shines on my 128" HP2.8 screen. Way over 100nits and allows use of the variable iris to improve contrast. And, it really shines on HDR with the HP2.8 screen. Tone mapping with the Radiance Pro works great with this projector.
That's a great thing about those old high power screens with old dlp too. Since alot of these DLP projectors aren't very high light output, the actually have a decent black level.

In summary, within its limitations, it's a superb projector. It's also 3D capable, but I have no interest in that, and haven't tried it out.
I would be interested in hearing 3d impressions, especially on the high power with the dynamic black, just make sure you're using good glasses, I'm pretty sure Sim2 always used the xpand glasses.

Can the projector do dci-p3?
 

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I picked up a Nero3D-2T2MB this week just for kicks. Put a new bulb in the old lamp housing, updated the firmware, calibrated it, and I am now trying it out. Turns out it shares much of its internal electronics with my HT5000E. The Nero is a single chip 0.95 DLP projector with some enhanced features: variable iris, dynamic black, and lamp dimming among them. I haven't yet figured out the lamp dimming feature, but I'm pretty sure it has it.
Bottom line, the image is superb. Very quiet stable image, great motion. It does have its limitations that must be taken into account should one desire one of these beauties. First is light output. It's not a light cannon by any means. I'm getting 18fL on my 110" diag 1.78 1.3 gain screen. This is with a new lamp and iris wide open. This gives a extremely good 2D image indeed. However, it really shines on my 128" HP2.8 screen. Way over 100nits and allows use of the variable iris to improve contrast. And, it really shines on HDR with the HP2.8 screen. Tone mapping with the Radiance Pro works great with this projector.

Another limitation is possibly seeing rainbows. I saw rainbows on the early single chip designs, but I'm not very sensitive to them, and I don't see them ever with the Nero3D-2D. Not at all. My wife also doesn't see them as she wonders what I'm talking about.

The lens is very sharp and comparable to the HT5000E, except for a very slight amount of CA at image edges with the Nero when zoomed out. Definitely not visible at my seating position.
In summary, within its limitations, it's a superb projector. It's also 3D capable, but I have no interest in that, and haven't tried it out.


Now, I definitely need to reduce my inventory of projectors, LOL!
Nice pick up, i feel you about the inventory, now i m up to 3 projectors too and who knows if i add more lol
 
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I would be interested in hearing 3d impressions, especially on the high power with the dynamic black, just make sure you're using good glasses, I'm pretty sure Sim2 always used the xpand glasses.

Can the projector do dci-p3?
I picked up the projector as is, and it didn’t come with 3D emitter or glasses, so I can’t presently comment on 3D.
I’ll check the DCI-P3, but I think it just might do this in its native gamut. I’ll check and report back.
 

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Sim2 Nero3D-2T2MB Native Gamut

As promised, here is the Nero3D-2 native gamut as it compares to DCI-P3. The RGB colored dots are the DCI-P3 gamut, and the small red dots are my measurements with an i1display Pro. I conclude it does a decent job covering DCI-P3.
 

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Discussion Starter #828
As promised, here is the Nero3D-2 native gamut as it compares to DCI-P3. The RGB colored dots are the DCI-P3 gamut, and the small red dots are my measurements with an i1display Pro. I conclude it does a decent job covering DCI-P3.
wow! thank you for measuring. It's damned close on the green, actually if you shifted the hue... That's really impressive performance for no color filter. But I suppose that's why it's dimmer. I wonder what color wheel it has. Gotta be RGBRGBG right?

I'm very curious about the dynamic black functionality. Do you see clipping? If you do if you drop contrast setting by 2-3 points does it offset it while still appearing as bright? Do you see it functioning in brighter scenes? More often indicated by said clipping than any visible pumping. How good is the black level in very dark scenes? If I had to guess the projector probably has a 3,000-4,000:1 native with a 5x multiplier for the dimming, so 12,000-16,000:1 dynamic.

here's some old discussion
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/1372362-sim2-nero-3d-2-house.html


i just could not believe the intensity of the colors and the overall image quality, as soon as i finished the movie i fired it again on my oled and my jvc to compare and it s a big difference really
The wide gamut rgb led/laser single chip dlp with a top of the line lens is really something else isn't it. Color/Motion performance is without equal.
 

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I'm very curious about the dynamic black functionality. Do you see clipping? If you do if you drop contrast setting by 2-3 points does it offset it while still appearing as bright? Do you see it functioning in brighter scenes? More often indicated by said clipping than any visible pumping. How good is the black level in very dark scenes? If I had to guess the projector probably has a 3,000-4,000:1 native with a 5x multiplier for the dimming, so 12,000-16,000:1 dynamic.
Dynamic black does not affect white. I have contrast set so that 104% is barely visible, and this doesn't change with dynamic black at any of the 3 settings (Off, Video, Movie). Perhaps this reported clipping of W was corrected along the line with firmware updates? I find dynamic black to work very well. I see no perceived color changes as it is set to on or off. The change is subtle in images, but obvious on dark test patterns. Video appears to be the most aggressive setting, but even at this setting it's subtle when watching images. I have noticed no clipping or pumping. I need more time to determine which setting I prefer.
 

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I'm very curious about the dynamic black functionality. Do you see clipping? If you do if you drop contrast setting by 2-3 points does it offset it while still appearing as bright? Do you see it functioning in brighter scenes? More often indicated by said clipping than any visible pumping. How good is the black level in very dark scenes? If I had to guess the projector probably has a 3,000-4,000:1 native with a 5x multiplier for the dimming, so 12,000-16,000:1 dynamic.
Dynamic black does not affect white. I have contrast set so that 104% is barely visible, and this doesn't change with dynamic black at any of the 3 settings (Off, Video, Movie). Perhaps this reported clipping of W was corrected along the line with firmware updates? I find dynamic black to work very well. I see no perceived color changes as it is set to on or off. The change is subtle in images, but obvious on dark test patterns. Video appears to be the most aggressive setting, but even at this setting it's subtle when watching images. I have noticed no clipping or pumping. I need more time to determine which setting I prefer.
With mine DB have color changes, i can notice them, it does improve black level and contrast but i find the color shifts distracting so i keep it off, also when i asked sim2 usa they said video / movie difference is in hz, so if watching tv it should be video and for bluray it should be movie, i didnt buy it though cause sim2 itlay told me for movies it should be on video lol.
I m thinking the color shifts i see are from the color sensor and i cant find a way to disable it via hardware so i keep DB off anyway cause its very subtle and dont think its needed.
 

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With mine DB have color changes, i can notice them, it does improve black level and contrast but i find the color shifts distracting so i keep it off, also when i asked sim2 usa they said video / movie difference is in hz, so if watching tv it should be video and for bluray it should be movie, i didnt buy it though cause sim2 itlay told me for movies it should be on video lol.
I m thinking the color shifts i see are from the color sensor and i cant find a way to disable it via hardware so i keep DB off anyway cause its very subtle and dont think its needed.
Did you do your calibration by updating the native gamut as stored in the projector? Or, did you calibrate externally with 3DLUTS with Lumagen or madvr? If the latter, I suggest you first use Sim2's live color calibration program to calibrate. This will reset the projectors stored gamut to your measured values, and I think this might resolve your sensor problem and perhaps solve your color shift issue. After performing LCC you can make additional LUTS for fine tuning the projector's calibration.
 

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Discussion Starter #832
Dynamic black does not affect white. I have contrast set so that 104% is barely visible, and this doesn't change with dynamic black at any of the 3 settings (Off, Video, Movie). Perhaps this reported clipping of W was corrected along the line with firmware updates? I find dynamic black to work very well. I see no perceived color changes as it is set to on or off. The change is subtle in images, but obvious on dark test patterns. Video appears to be the most aggressive setting, but even at this setting it's subtle when watching images. I have noticed no clipping or pumping. I need more time to determine which setting I prefer.
The clipping(compression?) is in bright areas of darker scenes, due to the gamma correction its shifting the range up to compensate for the lower light output, and it runs out of range at the top so some highlight detail can be lost. Its not very noticeable but I think its just standard functionality.
 

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With mine DB have color changes, i can notice them, it does improve black level and contrast but i find the color shifts distracting so i keep it off, also when i asked sim2 usa they said video / movie difference is in hz, so if watching tv it should be video and for bluray it should be movie, i didnt buy it though cause sim2 itlay told me for movies it should be on video lol.
I m thinking the color shifts i see are from the color sensor and i cant find a way to disable it via hardware so i keep DB off anyway cause its very subtle and dont think its needed.
Did you do your calibration by updating the native gamut as stored in the projector? Or, did you calibrate externally with 3DLUTS with Lumagen or madvr? If the latter, I suggest you first use Sim2's live color calibration program to calibrate. This will reset the projectors stored gamut to your measured values, and I think this might resolve your sensor problem and perhaps solve your color shift issue. After performing LCC you can make additional LUTS for fine tuning the projector's calibration.
I did 3dlut directly, didnt mess with LCC, i got an rs232 to usb adapter but for some reason its not connecting, every time i test the connection it says its timed out, and one of like 10 times it says test succesfull, so i m lost of whats causing this,

Even when connection fails, if i go in the LCC program and i pull up the virtual remote i could control everything but anything else failed, i dont know if its the cable , i m just lost lol
 

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@Citation4444 how are u connecting the projector to your pc
I use a Keyspan USA-19HS usb to serial adapter followed with null modem adapter connected to straight through serial cable. If you have a null modem cable you don't use the null modem adapter. I kept trying cables and adapters until I got a reliable connection. LOL
 

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@Citation4444 how are u connecting the projector to your pc
I use a Keyspan USA-19HS usb to serial adapter followed with null modem adapter connected to straight through serial cable. If you have a null modem cable you don't use the null modem adapter. I kept trying cables and adapters until I got a reliable connection. LOL
So that settles it, its the cable, but i didnt understand ur cables, whats a null modem cable, is it supposed to be this complicated to get a good connection with a pc.
I dont have though a serial connection in my pc, so i have to go with a usb there.
 

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So that settles it, its the cable, but i didnt understand ur cables, whats a null modem cable, is it supposed to be this complicated to get a good connection with a pc.
I dont have though a serial connection in my pc, so i have to go with a usb there.
On many Sim2 projectors you can calibrate the native gamut through its service menu without having to use Live Color Calibration 2. On my HT5000E I can, on my Nero I can't. Do you have this capability in your service menu?
 

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As promised, here is the Nero3D-2 native gamut as it compares to DCI-P3. The RGB colored dots are the DCI-P3 gamut, and the small red dots are my measurements with an i1display Pro. I conclude it does a decent job covering DCI-P3.
Wow!!

Folks it seems like high brightness TRUE RGB is coming in next month, albeit in a Panasonic Business projector. Rob Sabin wrote a great article about LED coming out from the shadows recently and I found this potential gem:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/expo2020/panasonic.htm#PT-LRZ35

While the potential to cover greater gamut is there; it doesn't look like there's HDR capability natively, still 1080p single chip; and may not have as good of a dynamic/native contrast as SIMs or DC4's of the past. Nevertheless, hopeful this tech will soon come down to mid-higher range projectors. No word on pricing yet.

Even so I am wondering if this projector is reasonbly priced, like BenQ LK lasers, we can maybe work some magic with this by using combination of HD FURY/ UB420/820 to enable SDR BT2020. With this high brightness, combined with a neutral density filters to improve black levels; this could be a real winner if 4k res is not an absolute requirement.

Food for fodder.................
 

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Discussion Starter #839
So that settles it, its the cable, but i didnt understand ur cables, whats a null modem cable, is it supposed to be this complicated to get a good connection with a pc. I dont have though a serial connection in my pc, so i have to go with a usb there.
You have no idea ;]

Here's a usb signal after 0.5 meters of cable



And here it is with a usb hub chip before the usb receiver



That poor signal results in a lot of error correction which also results in alot of phy noise generated by the usb receiver performing the error correction.
 

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So that settles it, its the cable, but i didnt understand ur cables, whats a null modem cable, is it supposed to be this complicated to get a good connection with a pc.
I dont have though a serial connection in my pc, so i have to go with a usb there.
On many Sim2 projectors you can calibrate the native gamut through its service menu without having to use Live Color Calibration 2. On my HT5000E I can, on my Nero I can't. Do you have this capability in your service menu?
No, in the service menu i can only calibrate rgb gains abd offset.
 
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