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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In case anyone is interested, I tried to compile some information on these projectors from reading reviews and threads and talkin with people in pms. These things are older and getting rare but they're very unique projectors and I think still very relevant in terms of video performance, really incredible color performance and great contrast for DLP.
See this post: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/3095572-older-high-end-dlp-led-2.html#post58991694

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Considering trying to find an older high end LED DLP for under $2000.

Runco Q750
Barco FL33
Vivitek h9090/9080 though i don't know if I have the throw for this one.

I have a short throw of about 1.4 to 1.5.

I really like the look of DLP and the lower heat output of the led projector would be welcome(small room). Would like to see DLP with better contrast. I have a 92" screen so not concerned with light output.

These projectors can do dci p3 color as well? Can madvr take a uhd blu ray and output 1080p with the higher color to the projector?
 

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Any of those units would be high quality for your needs. I would look for a Barco or PD FL35 as well. It is a little brighter than the 33 and has higher resolution. It also has a lens option that will suit your needs.

For P3 you possible could do a custom LUT with MadVR to get close to the color performance you are looking for I would think.


Considering trying to find an older high end LED DLP for under $2000.

Runco Q750
Barco FL33
Vivitek h9090/9080 though i don't know if I have the throw for this one.

I have a short throw of about 1.4 to 1.5.

I really like the look of DLP and the lower heat output of the led projector would be welcome(small room). Would like to see DLP with better contrast. I have a 92" screen so not concerned with light output.

These projectors can do dci p3 color as well? Can madvr take a uhd blu ray and output 1080p with the higher color to the projector?

Is this feasible?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Well digging a little deeper it looks like the q750s minimum throw is 1.59 so I don't think that will fit. The Runco LS3, 5, 7 and marantz vp-11s2 wont fit. I couldn't find any barco/projectordesign/digital projection led projectors for sale. This listing had the en13 lens and got my hopes up https://www.ebay.com/itm/FL33-BARCO-PROJECTION-DESIGN-EN13-LENS-UPGRADE-FLIGHT-SIMULATION-PROJECTOR-/273787532793

Couldn't find the sharp xv-30000 for sale, and i dont think the samsung sp-a900b will fit.

How about the Barco/PD/DP Dvision 30/35, F32/35, Cineo32/35. Quite a few around under $1000 with the en13 lens, would just have to get new bulbs. They're bright though, 3000 to 6000 lumens? Maybe get a new screen like a .1gain black o.o and would probably have to enclose it and exhaust into the attic... Or does it use both bulbs for the high output? so maybe one bulb in eco might be ok?

I can't seem to find any more detailed information on these besides the manufacturer's website and projectorcentral.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
have you considered the Sim2 MICO 60?
I had not, thanks!

But at 25" deep with a minimum 1.5 throw it wont fit, Ive only got 11' from the screen to the back wall. Keepn it logged in case something changes though xD

There is the Sim2 Nero 3 Plus ST though that would work.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/SIM2-NERO3_PLUS_ST.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So when considering these Barco/Projector Design/Digital Projection DVision/F 30/32/35 for use with madvrs hdr to sdr conversion, should brightness or color be prioritized? The versions I believe are dci/3k lumens(XC or VizSim), rec709/5k lumens(XB or Graphics), and a higher 7k lumens model(XL or High Brightness) which I'm unsure of the gamut. For HDR it sounds like brightness should be a priority, however, when using with SDR sources, the brighter projector would be significantly too bright? SDR material would either need a black screen or separate projector, correct?

Maybe its better to steer towards the XC/VizSim, use a single lamp for SDR, and utilize the larger color gamut for UHD material? :confused:
 

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I had not, thanks!

But at 25" deep with a minimum 1.5 throw it wont fit, Ive only got 11' from the screen to the back wall. Keepn it logged in case something changes though xD

There is the Sim2 Nero 3 Plus ST though that would work.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/SIM2-NERO3_PLUS_ST.htm
Well, for the MICO 60, there's always the old mirror trick to increase the throw range within the same distance.

The Nero 3 looks like an awesome option for your small room. I don't know much about the technicalities of all the things you've been asking so far, but I'd say a recent projector would be more qualified to achieve those results than those older PD models. The PD projectors have the advantage of an enormous vertical and horizontal lens shift, the sharpest lenses you can get, and some of them have an adjustable fixed iris to increase contrast at the expense of brightness (same idea as JVC projectors), but I wonder if they will have the performance you're hoping for. The Nero should be quieter and the LED light source will give you a much more stable light output, so you won't have to worry about that after calibration.

But, most of all, you should first worry about making your room entirely black, preferably using triple velvet. Otherwise, no amount of dynamic range will look satisfying in the room.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, for the MICO 60, there's always the old mirror trick to increase the throw range within the same distance.
I'm not familiar with this, what do you do put a mirror on the back wall and turn the projector around then angle the mirror down and have a second mirror angled at the screen? Would the mirror need to be in the middle of the screen?

I'd say a recent projector would be more qualified to achieve those results than those older PD models.
That's what I'm wondering. Picking up a dvision30 xc or pd f32 vizsim for $500(assuming they have the right lens and younger bulbs otherwise add another 500) seems like an interesting option. How would that compare to a ht3550 ht5550 or theo z65. Its a darkchip4 projector so Id imagine contrast is in between my w1070 and rs45, and it sounds like brightness and color gamut(contrast as well) would be better than the benq models. Some pages say it has a dynamic iris but I'm not sure if thats correct. @12GAGE did you have an F35? If so could you compare the contrast to the newer benq(you have the laser one correct?)
Those color wheels will be the closest. They provide very good color maybe not full DCI.
Some literature has said the rgbrgb wheels produce over 25% of ntsc, which would be over 70% rec709 which would be rec2020 correct?

But, most of all, you should first worry about making your room entirely black, preferably using triple velvet. Otherwise, no amount of dynamic range will look satisfying in the room.
Yup rooms treated and the screen can go blacker than my jvc rs45u in low lamp with the iris closed down.
 

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I had an F35 Vizsim model. There is no dynamic iris just a manual iris. The FL35 Led unit has dynamic black. I changed out my F35 for a LK970. The LK970 has advantages in brightness and laser stability. The F35 had a better lens, better color and better contrast both ansi and on/off. I would look at a Theo Z65, but honestly however from a value perspective the older PD models are great. They are well built throw a good image and pretty reliable. The downsides are 2 bulbs per unit and the are fairly loud.





I'm not familiar with this, what do you do put a mirror on the back wall and turn the projector around then angle the mirror down and have a second mirror angled at the screen? Would the mirror need to be in the middle of the screen?


That's what I'm wondering. Picking up a dvision30 xc or pd f32 vizsim for $500(assuming they have the right lens and younger bulbs otherwise add another 500) seems like an interesting option. How would that compare to a ht3550 ht5550 or theo z65. Its a darkchip4 projector so Id imagine contrast is in between my w1070 and rs45, and it sounds like brightness and color gamut(contrast as well) would be better than the benq models. Some pages say it has a dynamic iris but I'm not sure if thats correct. @12GAGE did you have an F35? If so could you compare the contrast to the newer benq(you have the laser one correct?)

Some literature has said the rgbrgb wheels produce over 25% of ntsc, which would be over 70% rec709 which would be rec2020 correct?


Yup rooms treated and the screen can go blacker than my jvc rs45u in low lamp with the iris closed down.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I had an F35 Vizsim model. There is no dynamic iris just a manual iris. The FL35 Led unit has dynamic black. I changed out my F35 for a LK970. The LK970 has advantages in brightness and laser stability. The F35 had a better lens, better color and better contrast both ansi and on/off. I would look at a Theo Z65, but honestly however from a value perspective the older PD models are great. They are well built throw a good image and pretty reliable. The downsides are 2 bulbs per unit and the are fairly loud.
Thank you!! I've read the theo blogs and am looking forward to the calibration and second shootout they mentioned. I really like the look of DLP and trying out one of these old pd models sounds cool.

Question about the eco mode, on the spec sheet for the dvisions it says 5000 hours per lamp - automatic sync mode.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_4439.pdf

The Barco sheet calls it VIDI but reports 2,500hours
https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_8363.pdf

Do you happen to recall the light output? Do they always use 2 bulbs, or can you use 1 bulb and get 5000 hours per lamp in eco?

For power consumption the specs say max 1kw, I'd imagine that's both bulbs at full lamp power, any chance you know the power draw in eco? If I get one I can always hook it up to a kwm first, would have to install a dedicated circuit if its pulling 8amps all the time though. My screens only 92" so I only need about 500 lumens for SDR

I'd consider enclosing the unit and exhausting in to the attic too, so that'll cut down on the noise and heat.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I have a first generation DPI M Vision LED, ISCO III and slide I’d consider parting with.
Isco iii?
This? https://www.projectorcentral.com/Digital_Projection-M-Vision_Cine_LED_1000.htm

I think the throws a little long, lowest is 1.56 and id need about 1.48

could you pm me your asking price?
 

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Those units are very flexible with the lamps. You can run both or just one. You also can dial down the intensity of the lamp with several different wattage settings (up to 300 watts) on both or either lamp. You could get 5000 hrs on a lamp under the right usage conditions in my opinion.



Thank you!! I've read the theo blogs and am looking forward to the calibration and second shootout they mentioned. I really like the look of DLP and trying out one of these old pd models sounds cool.

Question about the eco mode, on the spec sheet for the dvisions it says 5000 hours per lamp - automatic sync mode.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_4439.pdf

The Barco sheet calls it VIDI but reports 2,500hours
https://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_8363.pdf

Do you happen to recall the light output? Do they always use 2 bulbs, or can you use 1 bulb and get 5000 hours per lamp in eco?

For power consumption the specs say max 1kw, I'd imagine that's both bulbs at full lamp power, any chance you know the power draw in eco? If I get one I can always hook it up to a kwm first, would have to install a dedicated circuit if its pulling 8amps all the time though. My screens only 92" so I only need about 500 lumens for SDR

I'd consider enclosing the unit and exhausting in to the attic too, so that'll cut down on the noise and heat.
 

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I'm not familiar with this, what do you do put a mirror on the back wall and turn the projector around then angle the mirror down and have a second mirror angled at the screen? Would the mirror need to be in the middle of the screen?





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You need only 1 good mirror on the back wall. If you place it vertically, it will simply extend the throw in the opposite direction, not affecting the angle in any way. If you need to tilt the projector down (for example, to place it higher), then you tilt the top of the mirror backwards the same degrees to compensate and get a straight image on the screen. Although check the manual to see if tilting the projector is an option. Finally, you set the projector to ceiling rear projection mode.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Has anyone seen 1% to 20% adl contrast measurements for these projectors? I've only seen native, dynamic on off, and ansi measurements.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Do all of these units have the same dimming function, however, Runco and Sim2 do the gamma correction in the projector? Is it possible to do the gamma correction with a 3d lut for the vivitek and dpi mvision units?
 
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