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Discussion Starter #801
Shame those 3chippers are so expensive to produce, Lumis AR with DTM would be a great option for hdr. That native contrast of the sim2 light path has to look amazing by itself, add in the 5x dynamic dimming and the ARs color filter for p3 and youd have a real nice hdr image. Would match jvc at 1% adl and 4x the contrast at 3% adl.
 

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Got my Sim2 Grand Cinema HT5000E working again this week. In its day it was their flagship model ($50K). It gave me some problems 2 or 3 years ago, and instead of paying Sim2 the repair fee, I just stopped using it and retired it to my HT closet. Last week I decided to delve into its problems and try to fix it. It turns out I only had to seat/reseat a few internal connectors a few times, and it's working fine again.

Had to recruit some help to move this beast back into the home theater to watch it, but it was well worth it. I had forgotten just how sharp and accurate this thing is. It's got an old lamp in it so I can only get about 50nits, but it's very watchable. A new lamp would work wonders. Looks fabulous on SDR material, and with the help of the Radiance Pro's DTM it looks fabulous on HDR as well. Dynamic tone mapping wasn't around when I retired this projector. Also, downscaling 4K to 1080p looks great too.

Now I'm in a pickle. Too many projectors. HA! There are worse problems to have. :)
Hi Robert. You still should see a high contrast projector when used with the Radiance. The Sim2 probably does a better job with HDR than the LK970, when paired with the Radiance.
 

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Shame those 3chippers are so expensive to produce, Lumis AR with DTM would be a great option for hdr. That native contrast of the sim2 light path has to look amazing by itself, add in the 5x dynamic dimming and the ARs color filter for p3 and youd have a real nice hdr image. Would match jvc at 1% adl and 4x the contrast at 3% adl.
I heard the Lumis AR was pretty good, but that's from Sim2. But I don't completely trust them. It does look good on paper though. You can import one from the UK, but do you have $68k USD? :eek:

Like this one.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/sim2-fuoriserie

It was over $100k but wasn't much better than the SuperLumis.

I can't find anyone, on any sites, even the UK AVForum site where an actual owner of one spoke about the Lumis AR.
 

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Discussion Starter #804
I heard the Lumis AR was pretty good, but that's from Sim2. But I don't completely trust them. It does look good on paper though. You can import one from the UK, but do you have $68k USD? :eek: I can't find anyone, on any sites, even the UK AVForum site where an actual owner of one spoke about the Lumis AR.
Ya I'm curious about the light loss from the filter. This is the gamut from a Lumis 3d-s which doesn't mention any filter.


As mentioned recently, the projector does about 1500 calibrated lumens, has a ~6000:1 native contrast ratio, 30,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio which is done with both lamp dimming and an auto iris. The contrast curve should look fairly similar to the HDR Duo, though the duo has 3-5x the light output.

That msrp is steep... lol... I'd imagine dealer price was a bit lower but still quite expensive. But if you can find a used one for 2-4k? That's an amazing projector for that price.
 

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Ya I'm curious about the light loss from the filter. This is the gamut from a Lumis 3d-s which doesn't mention any filter.


As mentioned recently, the projector does about 1500 calibrated lumens, has a ~6000:1 native contrast ratio, 30,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio which is done with both lamp dimming and an auto iris. The contrast curve should look fairly similar to the HDR Duo, though the duo has 3-5x the light output.

That msrp is steep... lol... I'd imagine dealer price was a bit lower but still quite expensive. But if you can find a used one for 2-4k? That's an amazing projector for that price.
I don't know where you find the Lumis range for $2-4K used. There's an HT-5000E for $15K from Russia NIB NOS. Then there's a C3x 1080p 3d for $16k. A C3xlite 720p sells in the $2-4k used range. The only modern Sim2 with the quality of a Lumis you can get for under $4K on a regular basis is the Sim2 Nero 3d-2. But the Neros aren't Lumis light cannons and would only support a max screen of ~120".
 

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Discussion Starter #806
I don't know where you find the Lumis range for $2-4K used. There's an HT-5000E for $15K from Russia NIB NOS. Then there's a C3x 1080p 3d for $16k. A C3xlite 720p sells in the $2-4k used range. The only modern Sim2 with the quality of a Lumis you can get for under $4K on a regular basis is the Sim2 Nero 3d-2. But the Neros aren't Lumis light cannons and would only support a max screen of ~120".
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sim2-C3XLUMIST2DG/254570040871?hash=item3b458e8e27:g:MjEAAOSwYoFeimGm

The Nero 3d-2 is a single chip projector though? And what color wheel it has, does it have the lamp dimming + auto iris? I wonder what the actual specs are.
 

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Hi Robert. You still should see a high contrast projector when used with the Radiance. The Sim2 probably does a better job with HDR than the LK970, when paired with the Radiance.
Yes, with 3x.95” DarkChip4 chips and 6,000:1 on/off contrast it does indeed present a great detailed picture. And, it does it without a dynamic iris or any other dimming technique. Optical horsepower. It really shines with the Radiance DTM, a game changer for this projector.
 

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Yes, with 3x.95” DarkChip4 chips and 6,000:1 on/off contrast it does indeed present a great detailed picture. And, it does it without a dynamic iris or any other dimming technique. Optical horsepower. It really shines with the Radiance DTM, a game changer for this projector.
Hi! It's been a while. I know we both had Lcos and DLP projectors. Of the Sony/JVCs I've had, only one had what I would call great convergence. I used to think certain DLP projectors had better line precision than Lcos only because they were single chip, but going by my 3 Chip Runco's convergence, I'm beginning to think three chip DLP too has excellent line precision not unlike their single-chip DLP counterparts.

It just seems like an oxymoron to want the sharpest image you can get but have it somewhat spoiled by subpar convergence/alignment of the three chips.

So, spill the beans. :) How is the convergence on your three chip DLP?
 

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My HT5000E has virtually perfect convergence. I’ll post some pics tomorrow but I’ve got to get out a better camera than my phone to show how good it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #811
Hi! It's been a while. I know we both had Lcos and DLP projectors. Of the Sony/JVCs I've had, only one had what I would call great convergence. I used to think certain DLP projectors had better line precision than Lcos only because they were single chip, but going by my 3 Chip Runco's convergence, I'm beginning to think three chip DLP too has excellent line precision not unlike their single-chip DLP counterparts. It just seems like an oxymoron to want the sharpest image you can get but have it somewhat spoiled by subpar convergence/alignment of the three chips. So, spill the beans. :) How is the convergence on your three chip DLP?
My HT5000E has virtually perfect convergence. I’ll post some pics tomorrow but I’ve got to get out a better camera than my phone to show how good it is.
Huh... Thats interesting, and these dont have any convergence correction either. Im sure Ive read about 3chip dlp with convergence issues before though. But maybe if it had it its more of a defect to be repaired than within acceptable tolerance.
 

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Discussion Starter #812
Finally found someone else mention the rgb led dlp diminishing screen artifacts. 10 years ago xD Possibly something with the narrower band wavelengths of the leds?

Wow! Easily the best picture I've ever seen on a large screen. Bright, sharp, good color (I'm finicky about color), blacks, etc. More 3-D than I'm used to. Very pleased. I ordered the Vango being pretty certain that I would have to replace the screen. I have a Vutec Silverstar screen. Worked nice for my CRT. I had a buddy bring over his RS1 with a new lamp not to long ago. EEEk. I could see grain structure, sparklies, whatever you want to call it on bright scenes. I wouldn't be able to live with that. For whatever reason I don't see them with the Vango. At least they haven't brought attention to themselves in the couple hours I've spent watching some HD material. Doesn't mean I can't do better with a different screen, however it's doesn't appear to be a pressing issue. We'll see if that changes when I have some more time with the projector.
 

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As mentioned recently, the projector does about 1500 calibrated lumens, has a ~6000:1 native contrast ratio, 30,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio which is done with both lamp dimming and an auto iris.
Brian, or any one else, do you know if my LS-10 has built-in auto self-calibration that maintains reference colors? I did not find the info. The colors really do look so good. I think the Q750i has that, right?
 

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Brian, or any one else, do you know if my LS-10 has built-in auto self-calibration that maintains reference colors? I did not find the info. The colors really do look so good. I think the Q750i has that, right?
If the Q750i has it what is it called? Based on Brian's recommendation I'm using a color temperature setting called Native, which according to the manual, disables the white point adjustment to the source signal. Perhaps Brian could comment on that also.

Edit: Further in the manual is this description of Native: "Select Native for Runco's recommended Personal Color Equalizer preset for typical
video sources. It displays the fully saturated LED color gamut with appropriate color
brightness, hue, and Runco Smart Color settings". Seems like you could stretch that a little and call it auto calibration of color gamut.
 
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If the Q750i has it what is it called? Based on Brian's recommendation I'm using a color temperature setting called Native, which according to the manual, disables the white point adjustment to the source signal. Perhaps Brian could comment on that also.

Edit: Further in the manual is this description of Native: "Select Native for Runco's recommended Personal Color Equalizer preset for typical
video sources. It displays the fully saturated LED color gamut with appropriate color
brightness, hue, and Runco Smart Color settings". Seems like you could stretch that a little and call it auto calibration of color gamut.

Thanks for that info.
 

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On my various input devices to my projectors I sometimes have the choice of color depth and chroma subsampling. These are usually offered as 4.2.0, 4.2.2, 4.4.4, and 8, 10, or 12 bit. For my three old dlp's, two Runcos and one Marantz, what choice is appropriate? 66% of my source is Netflix, Prime, and Disney+. 34% is Directv but I don't think I can specify that output. My EZCOO splitter, which does the 4K down-scaling, says this: "DOES NOT down-scale 4K HDR Dolby Vision (4K60 4:2:2)". I don't know if those are two separate parameters on just one.

Also, would the recommendation that anyone would be so kind to make, hold true for my JVC X790? (Which, BTW, I haven't used in weeks because the Q750i is so good.)
 

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Discussion Starter #819
Brian, or any one else, do you know if my LS-10 has built-in auto self-calibration that maintains reference colors? I did not find the info. The colors really do look so good. I think the Q750i has that, right?
Ooo, I don't know. All the 0.95 led projectors have a sensor before the lens that will read the white point on startup and adjust the rgb balance to whatever settings are in the service menu. There are manual adjustments on that sensor board as well. Here's Zombie's post,
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/3095572-older-high-end-dlp-led-2.html#post59279818

If you open up the projector or maybe find a teardown post you should be able to see it. If it doesn't have the sensor I'd imagine it doesn't have the autocal


If the Q750i has it what is it called? Based on Brian's recommendation I'm using a color temperature setting called Native, which according to the manual, disables the white point adjustment to the source signal. Perhaps Brian could comment on that also.

Edit: Further in the manual is this description of Native: "Select Native for Runco's recommended Personal Color Equalizer preset for typical
video sources. It displays the fully saturated LED color gamut with appropriate color
brightness, hue, and Runco Smart Color settings". Seems like you could stretch that a little and call it auto calibration of color gamut.
Ah, I'm sorry, my suggestion was just to set the Color Gamut to Native, to see the glorious bt2020 red xD For most viewing you can just set it to Auto / BT709, as the Runcos have a factory calibration.

For Color Temperature, I would set it to 6500k. Though if that sensor is setting the correct white point on startup, that may be what Native is . Otherwise you would seelect 6500k and then adjust the white point in the RGB Adjust menu.

Lastly, if you're performing a calibration, you would use the PCE Color Gamut setting.

On my various input devices to my projectors I sometimes have the choice of color depth and chroma subsampling. These are usually offered as 4.2.0, 4.2.2, 4.4.4, and 8, 10, or 12 bit. For my three old dlp's, two Runcos and one Marantz, what choice is appropriate? 66% of my source is Netflix, Prime, and Disney+. 34% is Directv but I don't think I can specify that output. My EZCOO splitter, which does the 4K down-scaling, says this: "DOES NOT down-scale 4K HDR Dolby Vision (4K60 4:2:2)". I don't know if those are two separate parameters on just one. Also, would the recommendation that anyone would be so kind to make, hold true for my JVC X790? (Which, BTW, I haven't used in weeks because the Q750i is so good.)
I'm lost in pc use... I set to rgb full 12bit and leave it, but madvr is processing in 16bit and performing all the chroma upcaling(video is 4/2/0 8bit for sdr and 4/2/0 10bit for hdr). So in instances where there's source banding madvrs debander plus the higher bit rate processing do a good job of reducing it, the signal chain supports it and the projector has 10bit processing/modulation so wth.

The only difference I would think would be necessary with BDPs or settops is setting the range to limited instead of full, as that's a pc specific requirement. You should be able to set everything to rgb limited 12 bit, and the projector set to auto or rgb limited(video). If that's not an option though you would probably want to send ycbcr444 / 12 bit / 23p or ycbcr 422 / 10bit / 60p, and set the projectors to auto
 

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@tnaik4 - hi sorry I missed your PM from a few days ago. If the Sim2 M150 has a similar color sensor, it would likely be located near the front of the lens.

there is a reflector in the light engine that directs light to the sensor. Can you post a photo of the projector with the case off?

How obvious is the color shift with the dimming that you are seeing? on the 750 I found it pretty distracting to the point where I would have likely kept it off if I didn't discover the color sensor and use it for greyscale calibration. now there is no detectable color shifts during the diming even with the more aggressive modes.

 
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