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These projector's use Texas Instruments 0.95" DarkChip4(or 3) dmd. Projectors to keep an eye out for are the Chi Lin OEM LED 1 chip projectors, the Sim2 Mico and high contrast 3chip DLP like the Sim2 Lumis. Although they require external HDR tone mapping and 3D LUT calibration, these projectors are capable of showing a large uptick in video quality with UHD content(from SDR and compared to modern projectors).
The Sim2 Mico is a 1chip projector which uses three Luminus Phlatlight PT-120 LEDs, red, green, and blue, which are cycled in sequence instead of a color wheel. This projector traded light output for color saturation, which was useless 10 years ago, but with UHD content, shows color that you will only see in the new $7k+ rgb laser ust projectors or rgb laser dci projectors like in dolby cinemas. This projector has upgraded optics over other versions, including a substantial lens and diffusing optics for the leds, resulting in very little chromatic abberation. It has gamma-corrected dynamic led dimming. Between the high quality lens, the single dmd, and the high ansi contrast, it has emissive display-like pixel perfect sharpness and perfect shading accurate to the source video. Additional specs include:
-500-600 lumens
-90% bt2020 gamut
-~2-3,000:1 native contrast, 8-900:1 ansi contrast, 10-15,000:1 gamma-corrected dynamic contrast via led dimming. While contrast is lower, due to the increased color saturation, the uniformity, and the high quality optics, the projector has an increased perceived brightness and contrast, it's no exaggeration to say it looks like 700 lumens and 5,000:1 native.
-98-99% full field uniformity
-no misconvergence
-no rainbow effect
-improved perceived pixel fill and resolution
-10-bit processor
As a note, the low light output will require smaller screen sizes, high gain screens, or high quality expensive horizontal expansion anamorphic lenses. And the LED driver is noisey, and could require some soundproofing.
My best comparative description would be the Mico looks like perfectly converged 3chip DLP with bt2020 color and SXRD native contrast. There is no perceivable difference in brightness in low adl content when switching the dynamic led dimming on and off(while the black level is very clearly improved) as the range is shifted upwards which can result in brightness compression/clipping in some scenes, however, due to the higher native contrast and not so aggressive dimming(5x) it's functionality is very good. It doesn't have the smooth very high contrast full frame black to very low adl transistions of d-ila, but brightness matched it is comparably high contrast in 95% of content.
This post has a breakdown of the LED projectors: Older High End DLP LED
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The Sim2 Lumis doesn't have the high color saturation, but is 3x as bright and has twice the contrast. This is a 3chip projector, with gamma corrected dynamic lamp dimming + an auto-iris. Spec include:
-1500 lumens
-~7,000:1 native contrast, 700:1 ansi contrast, 35,000:1 dynamic contrast
The Runco VX-22D and Sim2 HT5000 have similar light output, slightly lower native contrast, and no dynamic contrast, however, due to the high light output, fixed iris' can be added to the lens to increase native contrast. DLPs contrast curve is linear, and boosts to on/off are boosts to most of the ADL range, resulting in vibrant contrast in most content and a solid black level in dark scenes. The three chip projectors typically only have a bt709 gamut, but some Lumis HC(hyper color) models have a filter to achieve a p3 gamut. There is also convergence error.
Some additional observations for the Mico and RGB LED projectors:
-The near perfect full field uniformity appears to translate to the individual mirrors as well, improving perceived pixel fill. Screen door effect is reduced despite a 1080p resolution.
-The light / uniformity of the LEDs appears to interact less with gained screen materials, resulting in reduced gain artifacting like sparkle/sheen. The texture of the material and the visible screen plane that it causes are still present, but there is a more uniform image and artifacting is less distracting, this is coming from someone watching alot of anime which is large swathes of bright colors and screen gain has always been a distracting artifact.
-And a quick summary of what specifications to shoot for:
Digital micromirror devices summary. A 0.012ms black to white response. An impulse response, like CRT/plasma, but without the phosphor decay. Every pixel changes state immediately with perfect accuracy, with no motion blur, and an improved persistence due to the impulse response, providing a depth and dimensionality to video that most other display technology cannot replicate. Moving away from the color wheel reduces/eliminates rainbow effect, improves motion persistence as the dmd doesnt shut off like it does between color wheel segments, reduces solarizations, reduces contouring, improves color bit depth, reduces noise, and allows the dmd to perfectly display individual color grayscale(these projectors typically only need a 1 point white balance as grayscale is razor flat). The Mico has color, sharpness, and motion performance that you won't find in other projectors/tvs, capable of displaying most of the bt2020 gamut. For the 3chip projectors, a contrast rare to dlp with high brightness that will show a very HDR image. The instant black to white response and high ansi contrast enable the sharpness boost and improved depth of HDRs increased delineation of high frequency to low frequency video information, and the near perfect grayscale and lack of voltage overshooting displays low level detail with perfect accuracy.
See http://imagesci.ece.cmu.edu/files/paper/2016/HDRProjector_OpEx16.pdf on high bit depth high frame rate solid state sequential color single chip dlp.
First Edit:
In case anyone is interested, I tried to compile some information on these projectors from reading reviews and threads and talkin with people in pms. These things are older and getting rare but they're very unique projectors and I think still very relevant in terms of video performance, really incredible color performance and great contrast for DLP.
See this post: Older High End DLP LED
www.avsforum.com
Original Post:
Considering trying to find an older high end LED DLP for under $2000.
Runco Q750
Barco FL33
Vivitek h9090/9080 though i don't know if I have the throw for this one.
I have a short throw of about 1.4 to 1.5.
I really like the look of DLP and the lower heat output of the led projector would be welcome(small room). Would like to see DLP with better contrast. I have a 92" screen so not concerned with light output.
These projectors can do dci p3 color as well? Can madvr take a uhd blu ray and output 1080p with the higher color to the projector?
The Sim2 Mico is a 1chip projector which uses three Luminus Phlatlight PT-120 LEDs, red, green, and blue, which are cycled in sequence instead of a color wheel. This projector traded light output for color saturation, which was useless 10 years ago, but with UHD content, shows color that you will only see in the new $7k+ rgb laser ust projectors or rgb laser dci projectors like in dolby cinemas. This projector has upgraded optics over other versions, including a substantial lens and diffusing optics for the leds, resulting in very little chromatic abberation. It has gamma-corrected dynamic led dimming. Between the high quality lens, the single dmd, and the high ansi contrast, it has emissive display-like pixel perfect sharpness and perfect shading accurate to the source video. Additional specs include:
-500-600 lumens
-90% bt2020 gamut
-~2-3,000:1 native contrast, 8-900:1 ansi contrast, 10-15,000:1 gamma-corrected dynamic contrast via led dimming. While contrast is lower, due to the increased color saturation, the uniformity, and the high quality optics, the projector has an increased perceived brightness and contrast, it's no exaggeration to say it looks like 700 lumens and 5,000:1 native.
-98-99% full field uniformity
-no misconvergence
-no rainbow effect
-improved perceived pixel fill and resolution
-10-bit processor
As a note, the low light output will require smaller screen sizes, high gain screens, or high quality expensive horizontal expansion anamorphic lenses. And the LED driver is noisey, and could require some soundproofing.
My best comparative description would be the Mico looks like perfectly converged 3chip DLP with bt2020 color and SXRD native contrast. There is no perceivable difference in brightness in low adl content when switching the dynamic led dimming on and off(while the black level is very clearly improved) as the range is shifted upwards which can result in brightness compression/clipping in some scenes, however, due to the higher native contrast and not so aggressive dimming(5x) it's functionality is very good. It doesn't have the smooth very high contrast full frame black to very low adl transistions of d-ila, but brightness matched it is comparably high contrast in 95% of content.
This post has a breakdown of the LED projectors: Older High End DLP LED
The Sim2 Lumis doesn't have the high color saturation, but is 3x as bright and has twice the contrast. This is a 3chip projector, with gamma corrected dynamic lamp dimming + an auto-iris. Spec include:
-1500 lumens
-~7,000:1 native contrast, 700:1 ansi contrast, 35,000:1 dynamic contrast
The Runco VX-22D and Sim2 HT5000 have similar light output, slightly lower native contrast, and no dynamic contrast, however, due to the high light output, fixed iris' can be added to the lens to increase native contrast. DLPs contrast curve is linear, and boosts to on/off are boosts to most of the ADL range, resulting in vibrant contrast in most content and a solid black level in dark scenes. The three chip projectors typically only have a bt709 gamut, but some Lumis HC(hyper color) models have a filter to achieve a p3 gamut. There is also convergence error.
Some additional observations for the Mico and RGB LED projectors:
-The near perfect full field uniformity appears to translate to the individual mirrors as well, improving perceived pixel fill. Screen door effect is reduced despite a 1080p resolution.
-The light / uniformity of the LEDs appears to interact less with gained screen materials, resulting in reduced gain artifacting like sparkle/sheen. The texture of the material and the visible screen plane that it causes are still present, but there is a more uniform image and artifacting is less distracting, this is coming from someone watching alot of anime which is large swathes of bright colors and screen gain has always been a distracting artifact.
-And a quick summary of what specifications to shoot for:
And a caution: The VX-22D and Ht5000 weight 100 lbs, and bulb life is much shorter.
Digital micromirror devices summary. A 0.012ms black to white response. An impulse response, like CRT/plasma, but without the phosphor decay. Every pixel changes state immediately with perfect accuracy, with no motion blur, and an improved persistence due to the impulse response, providing a depth and dimensionality to video that most other display technology cannot replicate. Moving away from the color wheel reduces/eliminates rainbow effect, improves motion persistence as the dmd doesnt shut off like it does between color wheel segments, reduces solarizations, reduces contouring, improves color bit depth, reduces noise, and allows the dmd to perfectly display individual color grayscale(these projectors typically only need a 1 point white balance as grayscale is razor flat). The Mico has color, sharpness, and motion performance that you won't find in other projectors/tvs, capable of displaying most of the bt2020 gamut. For the 3chip projectors, a contrast rare to dlp with high brightness that will show a very HDR image. The instant black to white response and high ansi contrast enable the sharpness boost and improved depth of HDRs increased delineation of high frequency to low frequency video information, and the near perfect grayscale and lack of voltage overshooting displays low level detail with perfect accuracy.
See http://imagesci.ece.cmu.edu/files/paper/2016/HDRProjector_OpEx16.pdf on high bit depth high frame rate solid state sequential color single chip dlp.
First Edit:
In case anyone is interested, I tried to compile some information on these projectors from reading reviews and threads and talkin with people in pms. These things are older and getting rare but they're very unique projectors and I think still very relevant in terms of video performance, really incredible color performance and great contrast for DLP.
See this post: Older High End DLP LED
Older High End DLP
Looks like I’ll be keeping mine for a backup or to use somewhere else. This projector is too good to give away. To replace it, even with today’s technology, will be well over $5000 for something new.BTW, earlier today I saw it mentioned that some Marantz projectors had the self calibration...
www.avsforum.com
Original Post:
Considering trying to find an older high end LED DLP for under $2000.
Runco Q750
Barco FL33
Vivitek h9090/9080 though i don't know if I have the throw for this one.
I have a short throw of about 1.4 to 1.5.
I really like the look of DLP and the lower heat output of the led projector would be welcome(small room). Would like to see DLP with better contrast. I have a 92" screen so not concerned with light output.
These projectors can do dci p3 color as well? Can madvr take a uhd blu ray and output 1080p with the higher color to the projector?
