[MJ DOOM]

Only thing left to do in here is swap out the xy black crystal for a da-lite parallax, which will recover some brightness(0.8 gain vs 0.65) while having a similar shade of grey, better resolution due to removing gain sparkle artifacts and most sheen, and better uniformity and horizontal viewing angles and reduced hotspotting.

Damn, the XY Black Crystal is causing all that?

 

[bdht]

Damn, the XY Black Crystal is causing all that?

those are just standard deficiencies of budget alr screens. the black crystals seemingly less artifact prone than competing alr materials like elites cinegrey 3d/5d, seymour matinee black, screen innovations slate, due to the lower gain and wider viewing angle. The black crystal has about the gain artifact sheen and uniformity/hotspotting of elites cinewhite but with some sparkle. for a budget alr material it performs very well

 

[bdht]

i couldnt get my garbage phone camera to focus for the life of me. but theres essentially zero chromatic abberation in a large portion of the center of the image its wild. focus is really good and pixels are perfectly defined, edge focus and ca isnt but i guess the 0.95" dmd + leds requires some really intense optics for uniform focus. this is the telephoto end of the t1 mico lens through the navitar HDSSW065

 

[bdht]

got a quick focused shot

 

[tnaik4]

Yes the middle focus with the navitar is excellent, the sides are a little out of focus but that is the far edges, not visible at all during contact.
I m getting now circa 130inch 16:9 size out of it, with around 35nits but surprisingly it doesnt feel dim at all in my bat cave, SDR looks excellent and HDR with madVR tweaked looks plenty bright and contrasty, the black level is reduced and looks really really good in dark contact. Overall the image looks brilliant.
I did calibratr manualky with LCC2 software first to dial in everything and it was less than 2de accross the board, so i did a quuck 1000point 3dlut in Lightspace which takes 15min.
Look at the results and how easy is it to get reference quality from it.
The LUT shrinks the gamut coverage by around 5% to hit all the inside points perfectly, its down from 90% bt2020 to 85%bt2020.

 

[David44]

if anyone is looking for a bright beamer the Hitachi WU6500 laser projector is a clone of my Viewsonic LS800WU and can crank out close to 3000 lumens calibrated.

Hitachi Lp-wu6500 WUXGA 5000 Lumen DLP Laser Projector for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Hitachi Lp-wu6500 WUXGA 5000 Lumen DLP Laser Projector at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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It puts out the same amount of light in 3D mode as well which is awesome for 3D on a low gain screen.

~120" beige painted wall with a room full of lights on. The sconces on the projected wall are turned off

The projectors mentioned above, as well as the Hitachi LP-WU3500, appear attractive, but are WUXGA (1920x1200).
Since it is not 1920x1080, how does that impact the image? Will television (broadcast in 1080) or a blu-ray movie look stretched or squished?
Is WUXGA better then Full HD?

Thank you, David

 

[MDesigns]

The projectors mentioned above, as well as the Hitachi LP-WU3500, appear attractive, but are WUXGA (1920x1200).
Since it is not 1920x1080, how does that impact the image? Will television (broadcast in 1080) or a blu-ray movie look stretched or squished?
Is WUXGA better then Full HD?

Thank you, David

No, its not stretched or squished, the extra pixels in the panel are just not used. You can define in the settings if you want to use the upper or lower part of the panel with 1080p signal.

 

[blee0120]

The projectors mentioned above, as well as the Hitachi LP-WU3500, appear attractive, but are WUXGA (1920x1200).
Since it is not 1920x1080, how does that impact the image? Will television (broadcast in 1080) or a blu-ray movie look stretched or squished?
Is WUXGA better then Full HD?

Thank you, David

I have the Hitachi LP-WU3500 and it's a good looking projector. Not sure if the price changed but for $800, it's a steal. My kids watch it majority of the time and it's on when sports come on all the time. No complaints from me with this projector.

 

[jdlynch]

Now that this thread seems to have slowed down a bit, I was hoping to get some advice on my current projector. I have owned a Marantz VP15s1 since new for over 12 years now.

I have no desire to upgrade as the picture, which is only 1080p, is still awesome and I imagine it would be expensive to do better. However, it’s age has me concerned and eventually I will be forced to make a decision to keep it or repair it.

Here’s my question: how realistic is it for me to think that I can keep this projector running when it starts to have issues? I’ve read posts here where some have purchased spare units for parts. However, that also requires enough technical knowledge to troubleshoot and perform repairs.

Keeping this projector would be my preference over new, since I’m no longer in a position to purchase a projector that retails at over $10K.

 

[SteveFred]

Well I just had my Christie WU12K-M refurbished. It was the Integrator rod that was wore out (very typical in at least the Christie M line). The repair was $2300. I only bought it for $2200. So for me, to get near 100% Rec 709 and 50+ fLm on my 180" wide screen was a no brainer. I am sure each projector is different when it comes to fixing them, but it was well worth it for me. Maybe I will buy a 3 chip 4K machine 5-6 years from now, once they come down from the crazy prices they are now.

 

[jdlynch]

Well I just had my Christie WU12K-M refurbished. It was the Integrator rod that was wore out (very typical in at least the Christie M line). The repair was $2300. I only bought it for $2200. So for me, to get near 100% Rec 709 and 50+ fLm on my 180" wide screen was a no brainer. I am sure each projector is different when it comes to fixing them, but it was well worth it for me. Maybe I will buy a 3 chip 4K machine 5-6 years from now, once they come down from the crazy prices they are now.

Thanks for sharing. I believe your Christie PJ was fairly Expensive? That makes your investment a definite no-brainer.. So, are there brands that are easier to find the resources/parts required to keep them operational? I’m wondering if I should consider purchasing a different “older high end DLP” that will be easier to keep functioning, and maybe even throw a better image than my Marantz?

 

[SteveFred]

Yes they were I think 60K retail when they came out in 2009. I think they still go for $20K new and refurbished about 8-10K. I was lucky enough to have a repair shop under 2 hours away and he did the estimates for free. I love the picture and would again buy another M series. Seems like they are tanks, other than the integrator rods(The part itself is about $1400). The WU7K-M I also got repaired I sold to my neighbor for just what I had into it. The 7 is actually about 90% of spec now after the repair, my 12 is about 70% of spec (lumen output) but way more than I need. I set it an constant intensity(about 38 foot candles) and the Christie will automatically keep it at the same lumens (until the bulb wears down too far). But since I was hitting 52 ish FC, I have a good amount of time before that happens. Yes in the end for about 5K to me was a no brainer : -)

I am not sure on how much other brands would be to fix, I just know Christie builds tanks and even though I bought 11 year old machines, their technicians answered all the questions I had when I called in. Great Customer service!!

 

[jdlynch]

Yes they were I think 60K retail when they came out in 2009. I think they still go for $20K new and refurbished about 8-10K. I was lucky enough to have a repair shop under 2 hours away and he did the estimates for free. I love the picture and would again buy another M series. Seems like they are tanks, other than the integrator rods(The part itself is about $1400). The WU7K-M I also got repaired I sold to my neighbor for just what I had into it. The 7 is actually about 90% of spec now after the repair, my 12 is about 70% of spec (lumen output) but way more than I need. I set it an constant intensity(about 38 foot candles) and the Christie will automatically keep it at the same lumens (until the bulb wears down too far). But since I was hitting 52 ish FC, I have a good amount of time before that happens. Yes in the end for about 5K to me was a no brainer : -)

I am not sure on how much other brands would be to fix, I just know Christie builds tanks and even though I bought 11 year old machines, their technicians answered all the questions I had when I called in. Great Customer service!!

What part of the country are you in that has you close to a Christie service center? That is a definite advantage since shipping can get expensive.

 

[SteveFred]

I live near Milwaukee. There is a repair shop in Hanover IL. Home - Camera Repair - Projector Repair - Camcorder Repair (royalcameras.com)

Yes this was a huge advantage, since shipping the unit would cost over a $100 each way plus Christie charges $350 per unit just to diagnose the issue

 

[FLX90]

Hi everybody!

I finally mounted and configured my Wolf Cinema DCL-200 FD (runtime: 11441 h).
@bdht helped me a lot. Thank you again for that.

After playing around some time, there is still a bit CA and "only" 79 % uniformity (no lens shift used).

CA and uniformity isn't really visible from distance.
But what bothers me the most is the brightness (it doesn't look that dark, but 262 lumens are really bad):

It could be 900-1150 lumens.

Here are some pictures from the screen (1.0 gain / 100").
Black and white are calibrated (white: +9/+50; black: -2/-50) and content is 1080p / SDR.

Here is a picture from GoG2 @tnaik4 took also.
Taking into account that it's "only" 1080p SDR the colors are not that great in comparison. Also the contrast.

So I decided to replace the LED chips (and maybe DMD chip).
I need some information and asked Wolf Cinema, Chi-Lin and SIM2 but they couldn't help me (Chi-Lin and SIM2 didn't even answer).

I'm unsure about the red LED.
Luminus offers two red LED chips. PT-120-R-L11 (discontinued) and PT-120-RAX-L15 (reversed polarity).
And I don't know which to buy.

And if it's Dark Chip 3 I want to replace it with DC4 (and get better contrast).

Maybe someone here can help.

 

[tnaik4]

Hi everybody!

I finally mounted and configured my Wolf Cinema DCL-200 FD (runtime: 11441 h).
@bdht helped me a lot. Thank you again for that.

View attachment 3067530

After playing around some time, there is still a bit CA and "only" 79 % uniformity (no lens shift used).

View attachment 3067494

CA and uniformity isn't really visible from distance.
But what bothers me the most is the brightness (it doesn't look that dark, but 262 lumens are really bad):
View attachment 3067495

It could be 900-1150 lumens.

Here are some pictures from the screen (1.0 gain / 100").
Black and white are calibrated (white: +9/+50; black: -2/-50) and content is 1080p / SDR.

View attachment 3067496

View attachment 3067497

View attachment 3067498

Here is a picture from GoG2 @tnaik4 took also.
Taking into account that it's "only" 1080p SDR the colors are not that great in comparison. Also the contrast.
View attachment 3067529

So I decided to replace the LED chips (and maybe DMD chip).
I need some information and asked Wolf Cinema, Chi-Lin and SIM2 but they couldn't help me (Chi-Lin and SIM2 didn't even answer).

I'm unsure about the red LED.
Luminus offers two red LED chips. PT-120-R-L11 (discontinued) and PT-120-RAX-L15 (reversed polarity).
And I don't know which to buy.

And if it's Dark Chip 3 I want to replace it with DC4 (and get better contrast).

Maybe someone here can help.

If u feel the image is washed out, did u check if u are using the correct hdmi range ( full or limited ) ? It seems u are having a mismatch somewhere cause it shouldnt look like this specially on bright content.

 

[Technology3456]

I apologize if my older DLP is not high end and doesn't fit this thread, so mods please delete the comment if that's the case, I only noticed it has the same chip as the original post mentions, and I wanted to ask about it.

It's the Infocus IN83. I really liked it back when 1080p content was the highest available, everything except black level, but I may never have calibrated it. (I am definitely not in the right thread, eh? Lol). It was used and I dont remember if the previous owner calibrated or not. I think not. I had to take it down years ago, but have the option to put it back up now, it would just be a lot less convenient than going to an OLED, which is probably what Im going to do.

How do you judge the difference between 4K OLEDs with HDR, and 1080p DLPS like the IN83 with no HDR? Specifically the Sony A8H, 65 inch. Its smaller than a 100-110 inch projector screen I could set up, but I could sit closer, and get 4K, HDR, and true black. But I am worried about the motion, I am sensitive to motion and generally dont like sample and hold TVs. But one Sony LCD from one year looked good to me, although only 35 inch or so, and Ive had that for years and been happy with it. So my hope is the fact the 65 inch OLED is 10-15 years newer, and OLED, with top end chip, will compensate for the bigger screen and the motion wont bother me.

Assuming the motion checks out, and putting size aside, am I going to get a better picture on the A8H than the IN83? How do 1080p DLPs of this quality fare in general compared to modern $2000 OLEDs? And is the IN83 considered a good 1080p projector despite its lower or mid tier price compared to some in this thread, or is it only good compared to entry level, but has a lot of problems or downsides compared to 3chip DLPS and ones ten times more expensive in this thread that I didnt notice? Because I definitely noticed weaknesses in terms of black level, and on the raw horse power and feature side of things (contrast, 120hz, etc, noise reduction didn't take away tons of noise), but for everything else, color accuracy, sharpness, detail, shadow detail, motion at 60hz and below, it seemed like swinging well above its weight.

And how do PQ especially motion with modern $2000-$3000 4K HDR DLP projectors, new or used, compare with the IN83 1080p non-HDR, and how do they compare to the top of line 1080p DLP ones talked about in this thread? And throwing the NX5 or NX7, or the comparable Sony laser 4K HDR models, into the comparison for good measure would help me get a fuller understanding where I stand and what my options are.

 

[bdht]

I apologize if my older DLP is not high end and doesn't fit this thread, so mods please delete the comment if that's the case, I only noticed it has the same chip as the original post mentions, and I wanted to ask about it.

It's definitely on topic for this thread, and I'd be very curious to hear impressions of the projector when fed uhd material with dynamic tone mapping.

Are the specs correct? 5,000:1 native, 15,000:1 dynamic, ~1,400 lumens, rgbrgbDG 4x wheel, 10bit color processor

 

[Aztar35]

I apologize if my older DLP is not high end and doesn't fit this thread, so mods please delete the comment if that's the case, I only noticed it has the same chip as the original post mentions, and I wanted to ask about it.

It's the Infocus IN83. I really liked it back when 1080p content was the highest available, everything except black level, but I may never have calibrated it. (I am definitely not in the right thread, eh? Lol). It was used and I dont remember if the previous owner calibrated or not. I think not. I had to take it down years ago, but have the option to put it back up now, it would just be a lot less convenient than going to an OLED, which is probably what Im going to do.

How do you judge the difference between 4K OLEDs with HDR, and 1080p DLPS like the IN83 with no HDR? Specifically the Sony A8H, 65 inch. Its smaller than a 100-110 inch projector screen I could set up, but I could sit closer, and get 4K, HDR, and true black. But I am worried about the motion, I am sensitive to motion and generally dont like sample and hold TVs. But one Sony LCD from one year looked good to me, although only 35 inch or so, and Ive had that for years and been happy with it. So my hope is the fact the 65 inch OLED is 10-15 years newer, and OLED, with top end chip, will compensate for the bigger screen and the motion wont bother me.

Assuming the motion checks out, and putting size aside, am I going to get a better picture on the A8H than the IN83? How do 1080p DLPs of this quality fare in general compared to modern $2000 OLEDs? And is the IN83 considered a good 1080p projector despite its lower or mid tier price compared to some in this thread, or is it only good compared to entry level, but has a lot of problems or downsides compared to 3chip DLPS and ones ten times more expensive in this thread that I didnt notice? Because I definitely noticed weaknesses in terms of black level, and on the raw horse power and feature side of things (contrast, 120hz, etc, noise reduction didn't take away tons of noise), but for everything else, color accuracy, sharpness, detail, shadow detail, motion at 60hz and below, it seemed like swinging well above its weight.

And how do PQ especially motion with modern $2000-$3000 4K HDR DLP projectors, new or used, compare with the IN83 1080p non-HDR, and how do they compare to the top of line 1080p DLP ones talked about in this thread? And throwing the NX5 or NX7, or the comparable Sony laser 4K HDR models, into the comparison for good measure would help me get a fuller understanding where I stand and what my options are.

Hello. Off the bat, no projector south of $100,000 is going to come close to the black levels of an OLED flat panel, that includes the Sonys and JVCs you mentioned. With that out of the way, it comes down to what aspects of a displayed/video image are important to you. High dynamic range, wide color will be the more noticeable improvements in today's world than the higher 4K resolution over your 1080P machine, say, if you're sitting more than 12 feet back from a 120 inch screen.

As far as contrast, typically, the Lcos projectors like Sony and JVC do a better job with low APL/lower ADL, and have the full native 4K resolution. DLP projection tends to have better motion and better line precision.

 

[Technology3456]

It's definitely on topic for this thread, and I'd be very curious to hear impressions of the projector when fed uhd material with dynamic tone mapping.

Are the specs correct? 5,000:1 native, 15,000:1 dynamic, ~1,400 lumens, rgbrgbDG 4x wheel, 10bit color processor

I have no idea about the specs. It says 1600 lumens but then later it says 1600 ansi lumens 1400 lumens. Everything else has no ambiguity, it's 100% correct as you said.

It's definitely on topic for this thread, and I'd be very curious to hear impressions of the projector when fed uhd material with dynamic tone mapping.

Full disclosure, it has been sitting in a box since I moved 10 years ago, because it wasn't convenient to have it in my new place. The problem is same now as when I moved here, but it's finally to where I can prioritize my HT if I want above all else, even convenience, in some ways, plus combined with how surprisingly even 10 years later, I may still not be satisfied with the motion of displays available, now the equation might change. You are getting me excited to set it back up. I dont have the screen anymore though, and it was entry level. I forget what it was called. Is elite an entry level brand? Or... ecomita... E-something...

The problem is you and this thread would love to see what it can do in a "high end" enthusiast sense, like this thread is meant for. And of course ideally I would too. But my budget is totally tapped out on TV and speakers. Or if I dont like the TV, then depending on if I got another one, etc etc, it would be. The only scenario where I can buy even a $500 screen, let alone $1000, is if I return the Sony, dont upgrade the projector, and decide to just go back to old faithful. And then I could look into UHD solutions, but the one you mentioned was $7,000, ideally Im not even spending $700 on that. But I do need a 4K bluray player so do good UHDs come on one fo those for $300 or something? And is there any way to get UHD on streaming services to the Infocus? I dont remember but I think the IN83 did better with 30fps or 60fps signals than 24. I mean it did everything well I think but... I dont remember. There may have been a little judder on blurays on a 100+ inch screen.

One scenario I got excited thinking about was hopefully liking the Sony, keeping it for 4K, but finding a cheap screen and sitting up the projector elsewhere, since the TV isnt going in the one place where the projector could display anyway. But again that's not going to give us the "high end" capabilities of what the IN83 can or can't do.

But maybe in the future, I could get a nicer screen, its just never going to be a $1500 screen most likely. $700-$800, maybe. And even that hurts to think about because that's like 20% of a really high end new 4K projector in a few years, and my past experience with the IN83, false or not, was that a good projector like this can still do great on a bad screen, but not vice versa. So when you have limited budgets like me, I'd rather pour 90% into the projector, you know? But again Ive never actually seen how much better it would be on a top screen, so maybe I am speaking bs. I just remember people telling me that I needed to spend just as much on the screen as the projector, that if I went with the entry level screen it would look very poor, but I was dead set on the IN83, and had no budget left for any other screen, so I made the decision to ignore them and get the projector I wanted, and... again I have nothing to compare it to, so I cant say 100%, but.... 99%... they were wrong. The projector is more important than the screen, $ for $. It looked really, really good, on the reviewers "best value/entry level screen" recommendation.