AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Something I'm trying to wrap my head around here is all the commentary surrounding OLED's (the LG's obviously since that's all that's out there) handling of motion in content.

I basically only watch movies, HBO & sports....tons and tons of sports

Would you guys say "stay away from OLED" in that case?

Every time I go to Best Buy I just get entranced for 20 minutes staring at the OLED screen as it just noticeably stands apart from all the others (even the top end 4k's around the corner).

But if I'd hate watching sports on it, it would be game over right away. :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
176 Posts
I am curious about this as well. I watch a lot of NFL, and right now on my old Panasonic Plasma the motion blur/judder/pixelization is bad, especially when the camera pans over the crowd and they are all waving towels or something similar in the air.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,876 Posts
Sports look great on my 9300. Motion has NEVER been an issue. I've had it around 9 months. I've watched plenty off football,basketball, and baseball.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,071 Posts
This is really good to hear!

Any speculation as to what people talking about "motion problems" are even talking about?

I would think Sports would be a disaster if it really were an issue.
Probably more about 3:2 pulldown for movies, I did see a few hiccups but nothing drastic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
465 Posts
I am curious about this as well. I watch a lot of NFL, and right now on my old Panasonic Plasma the motion blur/judder/pixelization is bad, especially when the camera pans over the crowd and they are all waving towels or something similar in the air.
I think this is related to the compression of the source material.

But I would also like to know what sports fans think of oled, particularly ones that have switched from a plasma to a FHD or 4k oled. I watch sports mainly on my F8500 and its been a great sports display, best I've had, especially for hockey.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
Here's the tl;dr version regarding motion:

If you like interpolation or native 60fps content or similar, you'll be fine.

If you don't like high framerate content and insist on watching movies at 24fps, then you're going to have problems.


DISCLAIMER: I do not actually own an OLED TV (yet) so this may or may not be 100% accurate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,729 Posts
I am curious about this as well. I watch a lot of NFL, and right now on my old Panasonic Plasma the motion blur/judder/pixelization is bad, especially when the camera pans over the crowd and they are all waving towels or something similar in the air.
That effect is very likely in the signal rather than your display. MPEG encoding just competely falls apart at low bandwidths when presented with content like that as each Olympics broadcast shows.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Here's the tl;dr version regarding motion:

If you like interpolation or native 60fps content or similar, you'll be fine.

If you don't like high framerate content and insist on watching movies at 24fps, then you're going to have problems.


DISCLAIMER: I do not actually own an OLED TV (yet) so this may or may not be 100% accurate.
Any comments on 30fps material? (like everything coming out of an Apple TV as an example)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,127 Posts
Here's the thing with OLEDs: The pixels have incredibly fast switching times, so there is no smearing on the panel as there is with other display types.
The only other display tech with anything approaching the speed of OLED is DLP.

OLED:


LCD:



But OLEDs are flicker-free "sample and hold" displays.
This means that while they switch frames instantly, they hold the frame on the screen until the next one is ready to be drawn - so you have a full 16.67ms (60FPS) 33.33ms (30 FPS) or 41.67ms (24 FPS) of persistence-based motion blur.



So while there is no smearing on the panel - except for what is part of the source (video cameras can blur things) there is a lot of motion blur which happens due to persistence of vision.
This means that you have the same "300 lines" of motion resolution as a sample-and-hold LCD from 10 years ago.
It will be a cleaner image because there is no panel-based smearing, but there will still be a lot of motion blur on the display which does not exist in the source.

And for some people, panel-based smearing is more of a problem than persistence-based motion blur.
While a low-persistence LCD can display a sharp moving image, the residual panel smearing can be quite bad:



At the same time though, that is the worst-case scenario, and on a low-persistence LCD you will be able to clearly read individual street names on a very fast-moving map for example.
Though the OLED does not have any smearing on the panel, this will be a complete blur on an OLED display due to persistence-based blur. You'll be lucky to make out anything at 1/4 that speed unless you are using interpolation.


So it's a bit of a toss-up right now.
OLED eliminates panel-based smearing, but has a lot of persistence-based blur.
So you won't have any smearing behind moving objects, but you won't be able to see detail in anything moving quickly.

And whether one or both of those bother you is subjective.
Personally I'd rather have the sharp-but-imperfect motion of a low-persistence LCD right now, at least while OLED displays are at a premium price.
And hopefully by the time that OLED prices start to drop, we will also have OLED displays with low-persistence modes.

Samsung's OLED had a low-persistence mode, and so do Sony's broadcast OLEDs.
LG's OLEDs are lacking this right now, so you are stuck with full persistence or motion interpolation. Neither of which are good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here's the thing with OLEDs: The pixels have incredibly fast switching times, so there is no smearing on the panel as there is with other display types.
The only other display tech with anything approaching the speed of OLED is DLP.

OLED:


LCD:



But OLEDs are flicker-free "sample and hold" displays.
This means that while they switch frames instantly, they hold the frame on the screen until the next one is ready to be drawn - so you have a full 16.67ms (60FPS) 33.33ms (30 FPS) or 41.67ms (24 FPS) of persistence-based motion blur.



So while there is no smearing on the panel - except for what is part of the source (video cameras can blur things) there is a lot of motion blur which happens due to persistence of vision.
This means that you have the same "300 lines" of motion resolution as a sample-and-hold LCD from 10 years ago.
It will be a cleaner image because there is no panel-based smearing, but there will still be a lot of motion blur on the display which does not exist in the source.

And for some people, panel-based smearing is more of a problem than persistence-based motion blur.
While a low-persistence LCD can display a sharp moving image, the residual panel smearing can be quite bad:



At the same time though, that is the worst-case scenario, and on a low-persistence LCD you will be able to clearly read individual street names on a very fast-moving map for example.
Though the OLED does not have any smearing on the panel, this will be a complete blur on an OLED display due to persistence-based blur. You'll be lucky to make out anything at 1/4 that speed unless you are using interpolation.


So it's a bit of a toss-up right now.
OLED eliminates panel-based smearing, but has a lot of persistence-based blur.
So you won't have any smearing behind moving objects, but you won't be able to see detail in anything moving quickly.

And whether one or both of those bother you is subjective.
Personally I'd rather have the sharp-but-imperfect motion of a low-persistence LCD right now, at least while OLED displays are at a premium price.
And hopefully by the time that OLED prices start to drop, we will also have OLED displays with low-persistence modes.

Samsung's OLED had a low-persistence mode, and so do Sony's broadcast OLEDs.
LG's OLEDs are lacking this right now, so you are stuck with full persistence or motion interpolation. Neither of which are good.

Thank you for that great explanation!

Honestly that makes me think I should hold off for now since so much of what I like to watch is sports like Hockey & Football, most all of which is being pushed to me @ 30fps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,384 Posts
OLED is sample and hold and because of that there is blur. Aside from techniques used there are other elements that have a impact on motion such as quality of the source, calibration, viewing environment, viewing distance and settings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
Honestly that makes me think I should hold off for now since so much of what I like to watch is sports like Hockey & Football, most all of which is being pushed to me @ 30fps.
Well for one thing, does your current TV have interpolation? If you're already used to watching sports and the like interpolated, then I don't think it'd be an issue...


Really, if it concerns you that much, you could always test it out yourself by playing back a 30fps video clip from a USB flash drive on the OLED TV directly (h.264 is compatible, but old-fashioned MPEG-2 is recommended); if you do go this route, it may be wise to also consider bringing a USB extention cord.

It would probably also be wise to fiddle with the motion settings on the TV if you are able to do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well for one thing, does your current TV have interpolation? If you're already used to watching sports and the like interpolated, then I don't think it'd be an issue...

Really, if it concerns you that much, you could always test it out yourself by playing back a 30fps video clip from a USB flash drive on the OLED TV directly (h.264 is compatible, but old-fashioned MPEG-2 is recommended). I would probably be wise to also fiddle with the motion settings on the TV if you are able to do so.

I was just thinking about doing that @ best buy actually.
Great call!

Can anyone confirm what USB drive format I should use?

Was thinking FAT32, but that won't take a file larger than 4gb
Perhaps ExFat?

Don't want to get to the store and have it not read the drive. :-(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,098 Posts
I was just thinking about doing that @ best buy actually.
Great call!
One thing though - MPEG-2 is arguable more difficult to manage, so you should probably have some AVC/h.264 MP4 versions as backup.

Also the issues I previously had with AVC/h.264 MP4s may have been improved since I last tried. Basically the motion was as expected, but the quality was crap with way more macroblocking than there should have been (my theory is that the h.264 in-loop deblocking filter was at least partially disabled)


EDIT:
Was thinking FAT32, but that won't take a file larger than 4gb
Perhaps ExFat?
I know for a fact that FAT32 works, but no idea on the other filesystems. Technically WebOS runs on the Linux kernal, so it probably is compatible with the Ext filesystems (for example, both Android and the Tesla Model S support Ext2/3/4).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
That was my big concern when I bought my OLED. Fortunately, there is no blur watching sports which is what I bought my TV. As others has said, if you watch the 24fps movies, then you may have some trouble. I have the TV in my man cave and I just watched the Masters, and also a spring football game with no problems at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
My 55EC9300 handles panning motion better than my Sony HX929 did. The Sony had some DSE but the OLED has clear fluid motion. The only thing i notice is the sports ticker on ESPN judders. Does this happen for anyone else?
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top