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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want to know who is going to be brave enough to design a OLED that is flat, 4K, over 80", and use an external media center so these units can hang on the wall at 3/16" of an inch thick ( from top to bottom and side to side )


Similar to the old Pioneer PDP-5030HD below




Please tell me I am not the only one who would like a unit with this design.......
 

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Hi Chris,


You're not the only one :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If they do not go with the design of the media center, I wonder how this will pan out in the end, I wonder how thick these OLED's will be.....
 

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Media box designs have historically been wildly unpopular with consumers. They generally create more problems than they solve. In this case, you would still need HDMI and power to the display so you are solving the "more than 1 HDMI" problem for people who don't already have an HDMI switching solution.


I am lost on why the media box is beneficial unless it allows for a proprietary cable that is otherwise impossible with a clever HDMI cable and clever power cable (perhaps even bonded at the TV side and separating downstream.


OK, now that aside. A super-thin OLED that can mount directly on the wall that is huge? Yes. I'd like one. I'm not sure 3/16" of an inch thick is a necessary feature. You want a lot of rigidity in that big a display and some kind of easy mounting system. I don't know If I want to pay thousands extra for carbon fiber that will fundamentally less rigid than a dual-structure aluminum design.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
In the past the media center was useless, in this case, with OLED, it would allow the monitor itself to be 3/16" thin except where the wire's went into the monitor. Where these wires went in, a person could cut a hole in there wall



I guess a 1/2" unit would be cool as well, Samsung did it in the past on there ultra thin LED's with no media center.


Are you sure about the carbon fiber not being as strong ? I was impressed when I watched "How It's Made: Dream Cars : Lamborghini Aventador", the part where the frame was made out of carbon fiber 1/16" thick or less........
 

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So if you made a proprietary cable that carried power + HDMI, I could totally see how you could wind up with a thinner cable better designed for this custom super-thin TV. I mean you're intentionally freeing yourself from the constraints of the standard design and might be able to go to the mini-HDMI as your connector, for example. This isn't a bad idea. Getting it certified to also run through walls, though, might negate much of the benefit you just achieved. Worth at least thinking about.


Carbon fiber is ridiculously strong. The issue isn't strength. It's rigidity/flexing. Maybe this matters less in a wall-mount design than in the free-standing sets. But a real-world example is the Sony Vaio Ultrabook that's carbon fiber vs. the Macbook Air. The Vaio feels like plastic, even though it's carbon fiber. And the reason is that it still gives too much. It probably is basically unbreakable. But the Macbook Air actually feels unbreakable. And it's milled aluminum.


Realistically, my/consumer hatred of the external boxes could easily be mitigated in this particular case because it's very much a product that you're explicitly talking about almost making part of the wall. Cutting out an opening behind it for the cable is almost a given in that case. In fact, we could argue that the cable connectors on the back of the set could actually "bulge" out a bit and fit into the niche in the wall where the cables would emerge from. If you chose not to flush mount, the vendor could sell an offset mount that would hold the entire TV say 1/2" from the wall and let you feed the cables up to the wire pack. Perhaps you could even run without the "media center" in that case if you chose. If you wanted to flush mount, you'd feed the cables through the wall cavity, use the special hydra cable and that would connector to the media center in your entertainment center where power would connector and you could have multiple HDMI sources. Still, though, I wonder if in that case you really even need multiple HDMI ports or just can expect an AVR.
 

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Yes, those boxes were so unpopular that Pioneer were still releasing models using them in Europe right until they stopped producing TV's. Panasonic's higher-end models used them as well, and I seem to recall seeing LG models with media boxes too.


These days though, it seems that most people are likely to just send everything through an AVR anyway.

All I need on the display is a single high bandwidth HDMI or DisplayPort connection - media box being optional.


That way you can choose to have one or not, or just hook up a PC to replace both, as I intend to do.


But I agree that if you are going to have the thickness of a single HDMI connector and power cable going to the display, it wouldn't make a difference if it had five HDMI ports instead. It's the legacy ports that add thickness to the display.

The only way you could feasibly make it any thinner than that, would be wireless video and power.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24446023


Yes, those boxes were so unpopular that Pioneer were still releasing models using them in Europe right until they stopped producing TV's.

External Media Center boxes were extremely unpopular with owners and TV installers here in North America. They created a host of problems and issues. I think the last year Pioneer used them here was 2006 or so.

Quote:
Panasonic's higher-end models used them as well, and I seem to recall seeing LG models with media boxes too.

I can only remember ONE Panasonic using such a box - the 2009 Z1 series, and that model was a complete FLOP. It was a very limited edition model, and retailers still had unsold units more than a year after they were discontinued, and they were blowing them out at less than half their original price.

Quote:
These days though, it seems that most people are likely to just send everything through an AVR anyway.

No, most people connect everything directly to the TV, not through an AVR.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-...o-bottom-and-side-to-side/0_100#post_24446702


External Media Center boxes were extremely unpopular with owners and TV installers here in North America. They created a host of problems and issues. I think the last year Pioneer used them here was 2006 or so.
I just don't get the hatred for them. It means you have a single cable to the display rather than having a thick bundle of cables to try and hide. Pioneer were using DVI and later DisplayPort for their connections, rather than anything proprietary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-...o-bottom-and-side-to-side/0_100#post_24446702


I can only remember ONE Panasonic using such a box - the 2009 Z1 series, and that model was a complete FLOP. It was a very limited edition model, and retailers still had unsold units more than a year after they were discontinued, and they were blowing them out at less than half their original price.
The Z1 was extremely expensive though, but the nice thing about its media box was that it had a wireless connection to the display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-...o-bottom-and-side-to-side/0_100#post_24446702


No, most people connect everything directly to the TV, not through an AVR.
Sorry, I meant "most people that would want a media box" would probably be using an AVR for the same purpose now anyway.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24446023


Yes, those boxes were so unpopular that Pioneer were still releasing models using them in Europe right until they stopped producing TV's. Panasonic's higher-end models used them as well, and I seem to recall seeing LG models with media boxes too.

Pioneer died in the market due to lack of sales. Enough said.
Quote:
But I agree that if you are going to have the thickness of a single HDMI connector and power cable going to the display, it wouldn't make a difference if it had five HDMI ports instead. It's the legacy ports that add thickness to the display.

I have no idea why high-end products have legacy ports. A "ports box" to satisfy those people starts to make sense there.
Quote:
The only way you could feasibly make it any thinner than that, would be wireless video and power.

Wireless power is crack-pot stuff. I've even seen demos and it's crack-pot stuff. Pushing the wattage needed to drive high-brightness TVs on a consistent basis is so far out there it's not worth discussing. Hell, Qi doesn't work at all well. And wireless video has sucked every time so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24446702


External Media Center boxes were extremely unpopular with owners and TV installers here in North America. They created a host of problems and issues. I think the last year Pioneer used them here was 2006 or so.

I can only remember ONE Panasonic using such a box - the 2009 Z1 series, and that model was a complete FLOP. It was a very limited edition model, and retailers still had unsold units more than a year after they were discontinued, and they were blowing them out at less than half their original price.

Yep, every model with one was unsuccessful, except for some Sharp TVs over a few series. And they got a lot more popular when the boxes went away. Reality is reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24447576


I just don't get the hatred for them. It means you have a single cable to the display rather than having a thick bundle of cables to try and hide. Pioneer were using DVI and later DisplayPort for their connections, rather than anything proprietary.

It's a box. I always hated mine. If you have an AVR, it's another box, so why the hell are you bothering? If you don't have an AVR, you just wanted to plug the damn stuff into the TV.


This was a solution in search of a problem people either (a) didn't have or (b) don't want solved with a Rube-Goldberg solution. The only reason I'm entertaining this discussion right now is I like Cleveland Plasma's dream TV idea and I don't want to make the TV unnecessarily thick just to support lots of ports.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24448652


Pioneer died in the market due to lack of sales. Enough said.
As I understand it, Pioneer's problem was that they could not compete on price. Their plasma technology and limited production facilities made it just about impossible for them to produce sets that could compete in the marketplace and still return a profit. I think for a company of their size, their sales were reasonable but they apparently lost money on every set they sold.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24462606


As I understand it, Pioneer's problem was that they could not compete on price. Their plasma technology and limited production facilities made it just about impossible for them to produce sets that could compete in the marketplace and still return a profit. I think for a company of their size, their sales were reasonable but they apparently lost money on every set they sold.

As I understand your thinking, for a company their size, they sold enough. But a company their size couldn't possibly work.


Oh well.
 

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Maybe I didn't say it well but Pioneer's problem was ultimately that they were too small. They couldn't really take advantage of economies of scale like the bigger Japanese companies and the Koreans could. This forced them to price their sets at prices that few were willing to pay. They ended up in vicious cycle where they couldn't afford to be in the business. When it comes to electronics you really can't be a niche company unless you are one of those really small scale (practically garage operations) companies that you see in high-end audio that charge really high prices for products that probably sell only in the hundreds per year. Pioneer was way too big to be a niche company and too small to be competitive with the big boys.
 

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A few thoughts.

I often replace broken laptop screens. A typical LCD module is in fact about 1/8" thick, with a single flat ribbon cable connecting it to the rest of laptop.


I totally could envision same kind of panel, just as thin, fed via a flat ribbon cable. Yes, rigidity would be an issue. Making something that thin and 80" diagonal.... I dunno, carbon fiber, aluminum, magnesium alloy... they all will flex.


I would say, wall-mount solution would be a sort of 'giant iPad case'. An aluminum piece one attaches to the wall, and then TV snaps into it. Stand solution would have some kind of skeletonized struts running to the corners of the panel.


Now, about that media box. My TV is less than 1" thick, and it actually came with an external power brick - the kind you get with laptops. If your TV is real thin, it likely has an external power brick as well. You could put the HDMI inputs, as well as Ethernet port, right on that power brick, and run a single flat cable to the panel itself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrpio  /t/1521206/oled-that-is-3-16-of-an-inch-thick-from-top-to-bottom-and-side-to-side#post_24482620


A few thoughts.

I totally could envision same kind of panel, just as thin, fed via a flat ribbon cable. Yes, rigidity would be an issue. Making something that thin and 80" diagonal.... I dunno, carbon fiber, aluminum, magnesium alloy... they all will flex.

Agreed.
Quote:
I would say, wall-mount solution would be a sort of 'giant iPad case'. An aluminum piece one attaches to the wall, and then TV snaps into it. Stand solution would have some kind of skeletonized struts running to the corners of the panel.

Sounds about right.
Quote:
Now, about that media box. My TV is less than 1" thick, and it actually came with an external power brick - the kind you get with laptops. If your TV is real thin, it likely has an external power brick as well. You could put the HDMI inputs, as well as Ethernet port, right on that power brick, and run a single flat cable to the panel itself.

Kind of what I was getting at above. Sounds about right, too.
 
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