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Have you viewed an OLED TV or device with an OLED display?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since the OLED TVs: Technology Advancement Thread has been bombarded lately by how quickly plasma and LCD will succum to OLED, I thought it would be appropriate to start a new thread (with the corresponding title).


IFA 2009 is weeks away ( http://www.ifa-berlin.com/ ) and it would appear that this will be the next opportunity for attending manufacturers to announce any new products.
 

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Wall St Journal headline this morning:


Sony, Stung by Losses, Delays Thin TV


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125053074821237541.html [requires subscription]

By DAISUKE WAKABAYASHI


TOKYO -- Sony Corp.'s next-generation television, an ultrathin model hailed by executives as a symbol of the company's technological comeback, is now a symbol of another kind: the dilemma facing its TV business.


Sony will delay the launch of its next organic light emitting diode, or OLED, television because mass producing the new displays would exacerbate losses at its TV division, according to people familiar with the matter.
 

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This is indeed no time to be pouring resources into retooling production for a yet unproven tech - especially as customers are entrenching and luxury goods like flat-screen TVs get summarily cut from the budgets. Manufdacturers are in survivaal mode, trying to eke out every possible ounce of profit from already established production lines


Even if there were no recession, OLEDs would still need to establish a track record in smaller devices first - phones, media players, cameras - before people are comfortable investing in a large, expensive display.


If economy indeed starts to recover around 2010 (that is, unemployment actually starts going down as opposed to going 'less up') We should start seeing large OLED TVs pop up in 2012-13. In 2010-11, we are likely to see AMOLED netbooks, notebooks, and likely desktop computer monitors. I am definitely going to check out the 480x800 (which is darn close to a 600x1024 netbook standard) AMOLED on Samsung's Omnia 2 when it hits Verizon stores coming Sunday.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's not fun reading more OLED delay news. At least we have the GP2X Wiz, X-Series Walkman, and the Zune HD (next month). While these are not successors to the XEL-1, two of the three devices just listed can/will be used for playing games!
I'm still hoping that we'll hear some good news by CES '10 at the latest.
 

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SONY's small minded thinking is going to come back and bite them on their ass two years from now when they wake up and realise that once again they've missed the train on a new technology while all their Korean competitors had safely reserved their seats.


There is plenty of bloat that can be cut away before they start sabotaging themselves by scaling back on research, development and practice on what likely could have become a point of distinction for them in the future.


SONY has been behind everyone else by at least a year in the LCD market and it has cost them dearly, too late and too little hasn't cut it so far and won't cut it in the future. Maybe they'll loose money on releasing bigger OLED's but at least they'll gain experience, and that is what they really need.


A lack of a good strategy has lost them their market leader position in the gaming world, here I thought they were trying to be forward thinking with OLED.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I too believe Sony might miss the boat again (sticking with HD CRTs for too long)! They first closed down Field Emission Technologies (FED displays), and now are pushing back OLED HDTVs!! I'm sure they have their reasons, for better or worse.
 

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BUT BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.



Even if SONY does push back it's OLED launch, it really doesn't mean much as THE PRICE WOULD BE PROHIBITIVE. We already know that SONY is not the only one working on OLED technology so it's going to happen depending on how fast we see the economy start to recover.

I have a feeling we may hear some good news at the 2010 CES
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman4 /forum/post/17037184


Even if SONY does push back it's OLED launch, it really doesn't mean much as THE PRICE WOULD BE PROHIBITIVE. We already know that SONY is not the only one working on OLED technology so it's going to happen depending on how fast we see the economy start to recover.

I have a feeling we may hear some good news at the 2010 CES

Even if the 30" model sells for $5k, it would still give me a reason to visit my local Sony Style retail store!



+1 on the CES '10... But who knows, there's still a chance of new info and demos at IFA '09 and CEDIA '09 (both are next month).
 

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sony recently discontinued their 11" oled panel.

bcz of poor yield ratio, used be 30% but recently they increased up to 60% ,still way behind samsung oled's 90% yield ratio(smaller sized though).


it means sony simply trashed 70 11" oled panes out of 100 oled panels they produced.

it's the main cause of their 11" oled tv priced at above $2,000.

there is a higher chance sony has to out source oled panels from out siders rather than in house. unless they figure out how to improve yield ratio at least 95%.
 

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Hard to believe they've been working on it since the turn of the century. SONY really is the aged master being pushed out by the new agile students. Samsung is trumping them in electronics, Apple in music and everyone in video games. They really need to shake things up there or its just down hill from here, as it has been for quite a while.
 

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The more I look at my Sony OLED and Cowon S9 AMOLED the more I hate other displays.

So we have 6 years to see 50" OLED for $2500.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0crash /forum/post/17042108


sony recently discontinued their 11" oled panel.

bcz of poor yield ratio, used be 30% but recently they increased up to 60% ,still way behind samsung oled's 90% yield ratio(smaller sized though).

You would need 12.5 Samsung 3.1" OLED displays to match 11" Sony OLED dimensions. If the yield ratio for 3.1" OLED is 90%, yield for 11" would be 27%. If Sony made 3.1" displays, yield ratio would be 95%+.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- /forum/post/17042668


Hard to believe they've been working on it since the turn of the century. SONY really is the aged master being pushed out by the new agile students. Samsung is trumping them in electronics, Apple in music and everyone in video games. They really need to shake things up there or its just down hill from here, as it has been for quite a while.

Which LCD are you so unhappy with? What are the reasons why you won't purchase another PDP? Despite the downsides to both techs, why are you REALLY unhappy with your current main display?


In any case, we all have to wait for newer and better display tech! Be happy with what you have!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpbandaid /forum/post/17045611


You would need 12.5 Samsung 3.1" OLED displays to match 11" Sony OLED dimensions. If the yield ratio for 3.1" OLED is 90%, yield for 11" would be 27%. If Sony made 3.1" displays, yield ratio would be 95%+.

I like your math! But the yield ratio doesn't seem to account for mfg issues with piecing all of those 3.1" displays together!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgb32 /forum/post/17049324


Which LCD are you so unhappy with? What are the reasons why you won't purchase another PDP? Despite the downsides to both techs, why are you REALLY unhappy with your current main display?


In any case, we all have to wait for newer and better display tech! Be happy with what you have!

My LCD, or should I say my previous LCD because I just kicked it out yesterday, was a SONY 46" 2008 Z series. My gripes with it was a terribly subpar black level performance and a annoying fluctuating backlight.


My problems with PDP is quite a long list, but essentially there is a effect that comes from phosphor trails, image retention, the fact that if there is any ambient light in the room the blacks on the screen wash out to a dull grey because the screen phosphors absorb said ambient light and then there is the just as annoying screen reflection/glare in well lit environments. Smaller annoyances is the heat production, power consumption and general weight/bulk.


For watching movies in a dark room Plasma is hands down the way to go, but take that same set and watch it during the day and it falls short. And the phosphor trail thing and IR makes gaming on a plasma a slightly worse experience than on a LCD. For the record I had no problem with the so called motion blur on my previous LCD.


In daylight LCD's or specifically the SONY LCD's with semi-matte screens are ideal and work great for games as well. But in a dark room, specially for movies the black performance leaves a lot to be desired, to me they are unwatchable. Also, at least with CCFL LCD's, I have found to irritate my eyes after prolonged exposure, but I can live with that and maybe LED backlight would eliminate that issue.


The least flawed set available for purchase right now is in my opinion the SONY XBR8 from last year which are no longer being produced or are in the process of being discontinued. Their local dimming should mean the black levels are easier to live with, though by how much I do not know. The only problem with those sets right now is purely aesthetics which unfortunately is important to me. The XBR8 are some of the thickest LCD's made last year and next to for an example the Samsung Luxia edge lit models of this year they are down right absurd specially if wall mounted which I would prefer.


Of course if a 40" OLED was available right now there would be no need to even think, I would get it, even if it cost over 8000 I would get it, no doubt.
 

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Quote:
the fact that if there is any ambient light in the room the blacks on the screen wash out to a dull grey because the screen phosphors absorb said ambient light and then there is the just as annoying screen reflection/glare in well lit environments.

This is NOT true of my PDP. Blacks appear at their blackest with moderate ambient lighting in the room. They will begin to wash out as the ambient light level increases beyond a certain point. The point at which that transition from black to gray begins depends in no small part on the panel's AR filter and how much ambient light is located directly in front of the screen. You could have a tremendous amount of light sources in your room and maintain a good black level provided that they are not in direct view of the front of the screen. Display placement with regard to light sources is of great importance if a rich, reflection-free picture is your goal, regardless of TV type. I've seen dozens of XEL-1s, and when under harsh lighting, they look as cruddy as anything else, IMO.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 /forum/post/17050494


This is NOT true of my PDP. Blacks appear at their blackest with moderate ambient lighting in the room. They will begin to wash out as the ambient light level increases beyond a certain point. The point at which that transition from black to gray begins depends in no small part on the panel's AR filter and how much ambient light is located directly in front of the screen. You could have a tremendous amount of light sources in your room and maintain a good black level provided that they are not in direct view of the front of the screen. Display placement with regard to light sources is of great importance if a rich, reflection-free picture is your goal, regardless of TV type. I've seen dozens of XEL-1s, and when under harsh lighting, they look as cruddy as anything else, IMO.

The thing with Plasma is that if I were to get one it would have to be the best which for me is the Kuro KRP600M. I live in Canada currently and there is no way I can get these from any local dealers. I'd have to order it online and prolly from across the border. The KRP's are notoriously brittle and there are many reports of them arriving cracked, so that is a risk.


But the bigger risk is that all the Plasma's I've seen in stores have suffered greatly from the ambient greys and so they have not impressed me. So I would be taking a risk on faith that it is going to look great in my home and if it does not I have no chance of just simply return it as the last resort, which I really hate to do anyway. In other words Plasma's right now are a big, big risk and if I go that route there is no going back.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- /forum/post/17019370


SONY's small minded thinking is going to come back and bite them on their ass two years from now when they wake up and realise that once again they've missed the train on a new technology while all their Korean competitors had safely reserved their seats.


There is plenty of bloat that can be cut away before they start sabotaging themselves by scaling back on research, development and practice on what likely could have become a point of distinction for them in the future.


SONY has been behind everyone else by at least a year in the LCD market and it has cost them dearly, too late and too little hasn't cut it so far and won't cut it in the future. Maybe they'll loose money on releasing bigger OLED's but at least they'll gain experience, and that is what they really need.


A lack of a good strategy has lost them their market leader position in the gaming world, here I thought they were trying to be forward thinking with OLED.

Not to mention that they OVERPRICE their products a little bit
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul416 /forum/post/17050775


Not to mention that they OVERPRICE their products a little bit

You know, I don't mind paying a little more if I know deep down that I am getting a better product. The thing is SONY is consistently model for model behind the competitor and yet charges more.


In 2008 most of the Samsung LCD's had widgets and video playback, but SONY did not, not even on their flagship XBR8's which demanded a staggering premium. This year Samsung is luring in the public with their super thin excellently designed Luxia LCD's that we enthusiast might scoff at due to certain PQ flaws which go right over the general publics heads. Meanwhile SONY's offerings this year are very lackluster comparatively, really the only thing to get excited about is how much cheaper last years XBR8's are now.


Its no wonder Samsung is raking in sales while SONY's TV division is in deep trouble. They need a few people with vision over there, they have the technical know how, but don't know how to energetically utilize it to its fullest extent. I don't know what Samsung is planning for next years models but I know the best to expect from SONY is playing catch up to Samsungs last year models.
 
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