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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24450895


Are the initial absurd prices purposefully put there by manufacturers just so they can gain the attention that comes with a later "aggressive" price cut?


I'm thinking Sony's high end displays here.

If only that were true WRT Samsung. Their price never dropped.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24450410

Quote:
It actually isn't.

Sorry your calculation was wrong. That´s a fact.

I saw these price cuts coming because it´s LG. It´s the same aggressive strategie like Samsung did with LCD for so 8 or 9 years before and LED backlighting since the LE(N)40M91. LG want to be number one in the OLED race. If you think OLED will be only a niche for enthusiasts in 3-5 years, than you underestimate LG. For both Koreans LCD has no future. Both companies invests more in OLED than LCD (75% to 25%). They make 4K LCDs because they can (enough money background to compete against Sony and the Chinese in the 4K race) and not because they want. Their real focus as upcoming display technology is OLED and not 4K LCD.

At least one very recent (this week!) market report disputes your claim that Samsung is continuing to invest more in LED than LCD: http://global.ofweek.com/news/LG-s-white-OLED-tipped-to-win-technical-battle-of-large-displays-8736


"Further evidence that LG is winning the battle of OLED display technologies emerged in February as the company announced it was cutting the price of its 55 inch (1,400mm) screens by 50%. Meanwhile Samsung is reported to have followed the example of Japanese television makers Sony and Panasonic in reorienting its research towards ultra-high-definition TV (UHD-TV) instead."



If the market continues to steer strongly towards 4K, it appears that LG may be forging forward in OLED all alone, which means the arrival of affordable, mainstream OLED will take longer than expected in the best case (and may never really make it in the worst case).
 

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Thats old news and that´s how marketing works. Samsung launched all new LCDs at CES but no new OLED and no new Plasma TVs. There will be news about new Plasma TVs and OLED later this year. Of course the marketing now pushed that what will be available and officially launched. Samsung was even next year relatively quiet about their OLED development compared to LG. So be patient, they give us more detailed information about their new OLED TV when it´s done.


Wait for the IFA in September: But yes, I expect that Samsung currently can´t compete or undercut LG OLED prices before their own 8G process works. Now it´s only a 6G process.
 

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Alma, you're still mistaken, but it's really irrelevant. The point about LG is that you can (a) consider the initial price real, which is fine (I do) and acknowledge that it was intended to be the 2012 price by the way (b) accept that they moved virtually zero units globally at that price (c) understand that two price cuts is two years worth of price cuts, not a function of any technological development.


That's just ridiculous. The forecast for 2014 sales is now lower than the forecast for 2013 sales was. Meaningfully so. If they go to $5000 or so (another 30% of price cutting, aka another "year" of price cutting) that's fine. None of it changes the long-term outlook. It doesn't magically make $3000 down the road into $2000.


Now, of course, if they can get to $2000 by 2017-18 instead of $3000, they can sell more than 5-10% of the TVs out there. The market at that price is probably closer to 15%?


The idea that they made a pricing move late last year because they are making progress is absurd. The reality is that sales were so incredibly low, it wasn't driving the fab at all. And without the fab being driven, there are no process improvements.


You enthusiasts think there is some market at these high prices, but LG quickly learned there was none. Even at $8000, I am sure they are going to get seriously reality-checked. It's a small TV that somewhat outperforms a flagship 1080p Samsung LG that costs 1/3 as much. This isn't like you are getting a Ferrari instead of a Renault.


Oh, and the Samsung is less weird. And brighter.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24452191


Don't know how that happened (above post) but I must have hit a wrong button somewhere. Sorry.

You do know how to use the edit feature, don't you?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24449702


The question is, what if there's then a $2,000 4K, full array LCD that is really good? Sony won't be making one this year. Not a chance. But someone easily could by 2015-16. And that could just become a standard sub $2000, 65-inch product. That creates a marketing squeeze on OLED....

Totally agree, and in addition I believe Vizio has already signaled their intention to do exactly that.


They are launching the 65" 4K FALD Series panel this year for $2200.


They are also (hopefully
) intending to launch the 65" 4K uber-FALD/HDR Reference Series for a higher price (but unlikely to be more than 2X the price of the P Series)


Their CTO is already on record stating one of their goals in developing the Reference Series is to develop a pipeline of improved technologies to feed into their lower-end product lines in the future.


So if the 65" Reference Series does materialize this year and if it comes anywhere close to being as good as first impressions and preliminary specs indicate, it is almost a certainty that Vizio will be working to have a 65" 2016 P Series panel which offers as much of the performance of the 2014 Reference Series as possible for a price approaching $2000 (and my prediction is that the 2016 P Series will basically be identical to the 2014 Reference Series minus the integrated soundbar and 'hand-polished' metal stand).


So yeah, I think the marketing squeeze coming from high-PQ FALD 4K HDR LED/LCD at prices approaching $2000 for 65" by 2016 is very real, and I think that possibility is one of the factors driving LG to attempt to accelerate the market-uptake / industrialization timeline for their OLED technology by getting increasingly aggressive with their pricing before Vizio's 2014 4K products are out...
 

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Good for LG. I have to echo the sentiments of my compadre Artwood on this...
I refuse to believe in a demo. We already know the OLEDs are the best TVs reviewed yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454483


Good for LG. I have to echo the sentiments of my compadre Artwood on this...
I refuse to believe in a demo. We already know the OLEDs are the best TVs reviewed yet.

And you are absolutely correct to remain skeptical until proven otherwise. I believe 2014 will go down as an especially formative year in the evolution of flat-panel TV technology and I believe that all of these moves, including those of Vizio, Sharp, LG, and even the announced spin-off of the Sony TV business are reflections of that fact...


Between Vizio proving their ability to actually deliver and industrialize the 65" Reference Series 'demo' they made at CES in January and LGs ability to deliver OLED in volume at the pricepoints they are heading towards and at the quality and lifetime required, I'd have to give a slight edge to Vizio at the moment...


But in any case, 2014 is going to be a very interesting year for TV technology!
 

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You guys make me laugh. It's too expensive.....*****....it's too cheap.....*****.....I haven't seen one but it's not much better then a Samsung plasma.....*****.


The best TV is OUT THERE RIGHT NOW and it's only 4600 right now. Do you remember how long it took plasma too get to that point? How many freaking years?


Now suddenly ****ing Vizio is a contender!?! LOL and savior of LCD. Sorry, LOL x 10. Just because they showed a fancy demo using Dolby HDR tech doesn't even mean jack ****. Peel off, that Vizio badge and it's probably the LED TV prototype Dolby was showing years ago. Suddenly, Vizio goes from having mediocre to crap TVs, to having the OLED killer. WOW. I'm sure LGs biggest concern is Vizio, and their Dolby prototype. I hope they are so scared that they release the 77" OLED for less then 10k. I love these forums:D


You guys should be running out to grab this LG at 4600 before it's gone. (hopefully that price is here to stay)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454261


You do know how to use the edit feature, don't you?

No, but maybe after another couple of thousand posts I'll learn.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454751


You guys make me laugh. It's too expensive.....*****....it's too cheap.....*****.....I haven't seen one but it's not much better then a Samsung plasma.....*****.


The best TV is OUT THERE RIGHT NOW and it's only 4600 right now. Do you remember how long it took plasma too get to that point? How many freaking years?


Now suddenly ****ing Vizio is a contender!?! LOL and savior of LCD. Sorry, LOL x 10. Just because they showed a fancy demo using Dolby HDR tech doesn't even mean jack ****. Peel off, that Vizio badge and it's probably the LED TV prototype Dolby was showing years ago. Suddenly, Vizio goes from having mediocre to crap TVs, to having the OLED killer. WOW. I'm sure LGs biggest concern is Vizio, and their Dolby prototype. I hope they are so scared that they release the 77" OLED for less then 10k. I love these forums:D


You guys should be running out to grab this LG at 4600 before it's gone. (hopefully that price is here to stay)

If it is full array 4k than yes, otherwise go run alone.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454751


The best TV is OUT THERE RIGHT NOW and it's only 4600 right now. Do you remember how long it took plasma too get to that point? How many freaking years?


Now suddenly ****ing Vizio is a contender!?! LOL and savior of LCD. Sorry, LOL x 10. Just because they showed a fancy demo using Dolby HDR tech doesn't even mean jack ****. Peel off, that Vizio badge and it's probably the LED TV prototype Dolby was showing years ago. Suddenly, Vizio goes from having mediocre to crap TVs, to having the OLED killer. WOW. I'm sure LGs biggest concern is Vizio, and their Dolby prototype. I hope they are so scared that they release the 77" OLED for less then 10k. I love these forums:D

You guys should be running out to grab this LG at 4600 before it's gone. (hopefully that price is here to stay)

If that happens, I believe it is an indication of a problem...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454751


You guys make me laugh. It's too expensive.....*****....it's too cheap.....*****.....I haven't seen one but it's not much better then a Samsung plasma.....*****.


The best TV is OUT THERE RIGHT NOW and it's only 4600 right now. Do you remember how long it took plasma too get to that point? How many freaking years?


Now suddenly ****ing Vizio is a contender!?! LOL and savior of LCD. Sorry, LOL x 10. Just because they showed a fancy demo using Dolby HDR tech doesn't even mean jack ****. Peel off, that Vizio badge and it's probably the LED TV prototype Dolby was showing years ago. Suddenly, Vizio goes from having mediocre to crap TVs, to having the OLED killer. WOW. I'm sure LGs biggest concern is Vizio, and their Dolby prototype. I hope they are so scared that they release the 77" OLED for less then 10k. I love these forums:D


You guys should be running out to grab this LG at 4600 before it's gone. (hopefully that price is here to stay)

I would have to agree although I do not own the LG I do own the Samsung oled and have owned the pioneer 141, sharp elite, and currently own a panasonic vt50 and 8th gen kuro the OLED is hands down a better set I would never purchase another set unless it was OLED no fully backlit LCD can touch an oled or a plasma and I am speaking from experience not from going to a store asking a bunch of questions and recently I purchased my father a panasonic zt60 and that pales in comparison to the OLED as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8730#post_24454905

Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700#post_24454751


You guys make me laugh. It's too expensive.....*****....it's too cheap.....*****.....I haven't seen one but it's not much better then a Samsung plasma.....*****.


The best TV is OUT THERE RIGHT NOW and it's only 4600 right now. Do you remember how long it took plasma too get to that point? How many freaking years?


Now suddenly ****ing Vizio is a contender!?! LOL and savior of LCD. Sorry, LOL x 10. Just because they showed a fancy demo using Dolby HDR tech doesn't even mean jack ****. Peel off, that Vizio badge and it's probably the LED TV prototype Dolby was showing years ago. Suddenly, Vizio goes from having mediocre to crap TVs, to having the OLED killer. WOW. I'm sure LGs biggest concern is Vizio, and their Dolby prototype. I hope they are so scared that they release the 77" OLED for less then 10k. I love these forums:D


You guys should be running out to grab this LG at 4600 before it's gone. (hopefully that price is here to stay)

I would have to agree although I do not own the LG I do own the Samsung oled and have owned the pioneer 141, sharp elite, and currently own a panasonic vt50 and 8th gen kuro the OLED is hands down a better set I would never purchase another set unless it was OLED no fully backlit LCD can touch an oled or a plasma and I am speaking from experience not from going to a store asking a bunch of questions and recently I purchased my father a panasonic zt60 and that pales in comparison to the OLED as well.

If you represent a significant market segment, then LG should be in great shape!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 

I would not put my cards into a vizio set until the reviews come out

And neither would I. But that doesn't mean a certain amount of scenario analysis isn't warranted. If low-cost higher-quality 4K LCD is not delivered by Vizio this year, LGs prospects increase and even look excellent. On the other hand, if Vizio does deliver higher-PQ 4K for close to $2000 this year, LG and OLED need to speed up their adoption rate or I believe the barriers to mass-market penetration before the decade is out will prove formidable...
 

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Vizio changes nothing in worldwide sales, it's not available outside US and it's also a company often missing their deadlines. The display world is in the hand of Samsung and LG. They have a duopoly in the market.
 

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I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, but until you guys get an OLED in your home, you don't really know how awesome the picture is. My last TV was a VT60 before I went to projectors full time. Now, I own one of the best projectors out there that has higher native contrast then even a Kuro, and the OLED BLOWS it away. I think LG is gonna lead the way for OLED, and they may have recently upped their yields considerably.


Now, if Samsung suddenly lowered their OLED price to 4600, I'd be worried because they have NO NEW product coming, they have publicly stated that it's not the right time for OLED. LG on the otherhand announced 4 new models for this year, and has a very optimistic outlook on OLEDs future. Their process of developing their OLED was much more economical then Samsung and they released a REAL product. The Samsung by all reports is basically a prototype that they released into the wild. Even though some claim that LG is a "fake" OLED because of the white backpane, I'll take a fake OLED over a real LCD or plasma anyday
 

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I've been following OLED ever since by hopes for a perfect display were dashed with the demise of SED. I'm beyond ecstatic that we have now reached the pinnacle (for now) of picture fidelity, and we can actually have it in our homes! How long have you guys been into televisions? why do you spend so much time at AVS? For me it was about finding that perfect display and I've found it. Will future OLEDs be even better? Probably, but being this close to perfection now is amazing. You guys gotta get some excitement going in these threads.


The Kuro era is DEAD. LONG LIVE OLED!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8730#post_24455241


I may have been a bit harsh in my last post, but until you guys get an OLED in your home, you don't really know how awesome the picture is. My last TV was a VT60 before I went to projectors full time. Now, I own one of the best projectors out there that has higher native contrast then even a Kuro, and the OLED BLOWS it away. I think LG is gonna lead the way for OLED, and they may have recently upped their yields considerably.


Now, if Samsung suddenly lowered their OLED price to 4600, I'd be worried because they have NO NEW product coming, they have publicly stated that it's not the right time for OLED. LG on the otherhand announced 4 new models for this year, and has a very optimistic outlook on OLEDs future. Their process of developing their OLED was much more economical then Samsung and they released a REAL product. The Samsung by all reports is basically a prototype that they released into the wild. Even though some claim that LG is a "fake" OLED because of the white backpane, I'll take a fake OLED over a real LCD or plasma anyday


I keep hearing about how OLED blows plasma away but you never hear the "why".


Care to elaborate?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8730#post_24454954


Vizio changes nothing in worldwide sales, it's not available outside US and it's also a company often missing their deadlines. The display world is in the hand of Samsung and LG. They have a duopoly in the market.

Clearly, with 1 out of every 6 televisions worldwide, the U.S. market is irrelevant.

Not to mention that with something like 1 out of 4 high-end shipments worldwide (or perhaps even more), it's especially irrelevant to enthusiasts and videophiles!


Oh, and of course there is no chance that Vizio will ever expand to other countries, too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8730#post_24455241


Even though some claim that LG is a "fake" OLED because of the white backpane,

Those people are fools.
 
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