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As if it were new display technology. It's an Organic LED backlight that burns out faster. Perhaps, they now have Panasonic patents for plasma, but their track record has actually been mediocre.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8760_60#post_24461014


LOL. Yet they're the only one who is putting their money where their mouth is on the OLED front.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weboh  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8760_60#post_24461023

 

As if it were new display technology. It's an Organic LED backlight that burns out faster. Perhaps, they now have Panasonic patents for plasma, but their track record has actually been mediocre.
 

What does "as if it were a new display technology" mean with respect to what Vinnie said?  What does it matter when OLED was created?  It hasn't been larger screen viable until now.  Seriously, do you have a point in this?

 

 
 

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Seems like an ancillary nonpoint to me. 2013 was the first year a big-screen OLED TV was ever made available commercially. Also, plasma can be dated back to the 70s, LCD at least as long (longer depending on what development you cite).
 

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I'm bored by this nonsense LG innuendo. These pointless claims about color gamut when the LG has incredibly accurate color and as wide a gamut as most any other TV you can buy are pretty pointless. it also "out contrasts" basically every other TV on the market.


Samsung is -- for the time being -- essentially out of the OLED TV business. LG is not. Which one of those is more interesting to videophiles? Oh, right....
 

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Sorry to bore you rollo. Of course I was being mostly sarcastic and yes LG version of OLED will be the only version for the foreseeable future. I'm already planning on buying either the 65" 4K or 77" 4k LG OLED, depending on price. Once you go OLED, you never go back.


LG is not true RGB OLED, rather it is LG's WRGB (White-OLED with color filters, or WOLED-CF) design used in their OLED TVs is based on technology developed at Kodak. WRGB TVs are less efficient than direct-emission OLEDs (because the color filters absorb some of the light) but they are easier to fabricate because there's no need to pattern subpixels.


Now, what would the advantages be in Samsung OLED, other then brightness? I wonder why I can see some banding on very rare occasions on my LG?


For a first gen product, my LG is hands down the best picture I've ever seen!! Can't imagine it getting much better! Hopefully them implement some kind of DFI or scanning, or pulse, etc to completely get rid of the sample and hold effect.


Also, you guys do know that Best Buy has a 30 day return policy right? How can you guys not resist trying one out?
 

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Just a wild shot in the dark, but the banding may be caused by the same phenomenon resulting in the misfiring pixels on grayscale patterns, the TFT backplane that LG informed Digital Trends about.


HDTVTest theorized the problem might be a side effect of the panel's thin profile, but is the Samsung any more thick? I haven't compared dimensions. HDTVTest mentioned this banding wasn't visible in actual content, so it's a little disconcerting to hear you're seeing it, even if rarely (of course you've had much more time to spend with the panel).


Best Buy actually has a 15-day return policy these days.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8760#post_24461490


LG is not true RGB OLED,

Samsung's OLED is not "true WRGB WOLED".
Quote:
rather it is LG's WRGB (White-OLED with color filters, or WOLED-CF) design used in their OLED TVs is based on technology developed at Kodak. WRGB TVs are less efficient than direct-emission OLEDs (because the color filters absorb some of the light) but they are easier to fabricate because there's no need to pattern subpixels.

This thread has hundreds of posts on this topic. We're all quite familiar with it. It's very marginally less efficient.
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Now, what would the advantages be in Samsung OLED, other then brightness?

Well, since it's not mass production ready at all, it's moot anyway.
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I wonder why I can see some banding on very rare occasions on my LG?

That has nothing to do with any perceive shortcomings of the basic technology. I'm not sure what kind of banding you mean, however, so I'm not going to speculate on what you are seeing.


Know that vapor deposition of an OLED layer is not going to perfectly even, however, so mura-type effects are going to exist for the time being.
Quote:
For a first gen product, my LG is hands down the best picture I've ever seen!! Can't imagine it getting much better! Hopefully them implement some kind of DFI or scanning, or pulse, etc to completely get rid of the sample and hold effect.

I can imagine it getting better.
 

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One of the biggest areas right now is motion rez. While Samsung's BFI method seems to work pretty satisfactorily, they don't really seem ready to gear up production with their poor yields. LG will hopefully introduce something similar in this year's model. Other areas where there is room for improvement on the LG are referenced in reviews. They seem relatively minor (screen uniformity at specific low light levels and pixel laziness visible from 1.5 feet out).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8760#post_24462204


Just a wild shot in the dark, but the banding may be caused by the same phenomenon resulting in the misfiring pixels on grayscale patterns, the TFT backplane that LG informed Digital Trends about.


HDTVTest theorized the problem might be a side effect of the panel's thin profile, but is the Samsung any more thick? I haven't compared dimensions. HDTVTest mentioned this banding wasn't visible in actual content, so it's a little disconcerting to hear you're seeing it, even if rarely (of course you've had much more time to spend with the panel).


Best Buy actually has a 15-day return policy these days.

BestBuys return policy is different depending on your membership status, buying this TV would put you in the highest tier so you would actually have a 45 day return window. Assuming you sign up for the rewards program that is.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8760#post_24461490


Sorry to bore you rollo. Of course I was being mostly sarcastic and yes LG version of OLED will be the only version for the foreseeable future. I'm already planning on buying either the 65" 4K or 77" 4k LG OLED, depending on price. Once you go OLED, you never go back.

If you would rather have a 4K OLED instead of a car, then you can buy it at the end of the year. On the last day of CES, the LG rep told me that they were targeting around $25k for the 77" 4K OLED UHDTV (they didn't talk pricing until the last day). He didn't mention price on the others.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8700_100#post_24462805


BestBuys return policy is different depending on your membership status, buying this TV would put you in the highest tier so you would actually have a 45 day return window. Assuming you sign up for the rewards program that is.
I'm fairly confident that does not apply retroactively (at the point of purchase, if you don't have such membership, you will still only have 15 days to evaluate).
 

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They honored it for my purchase of a F8500 recently. It could depend on the management at the store I suppose.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Norseman  /t/681125/oled-tvs-technology-advancements-thread/8730#post_24455832


My 'Holy Grail' TV would be a 4K OLED 75" model for under $5,000.

Wake me when its here...
A 75" full array LED with local dimming 4K under $4K is good enough for me, wake me up when you see one.
 

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Then you're in the wrong thread.
A couple of questions about that full-array LED include how wide is the viewing angle before there is a noticeable drop-off in contrast and color reproduction, how many dimming zones are there, and if there aren't at least as many as can be found on the Sharp Elite, will the dimming algorithm be advanced enough to avoid blooming artifacts? With OLED, none of these are a concern (but yes, the tech has its own untested concerns as well).
 

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Good(ish) news: The latest IHS forecast for OLED is 8.1 million units in 2018. That's (in my mind) a really big number given that even 2015 will have a tough time reaching 1 million... It's almost certainly also something resembling 100% of the high-end TV market.


Bad news: The global TV market is absolutely coming apart at the seams. It's starting to look like PCs where every forecast gets revised downward (because the previous one was too optimistic. The numbers came in from IHS at 225 million (vs. a forecast of 227 million as of November). That doesn't seem like a lot, but it was down almost 6% overall -- and a whopping 10% among HD sets!


Every region saw declines, with North America down 9%, Asia down 7% and both sides of Europe suffering.


This is generally awful for new technology. It's trying to grow into a shrinking pool.


IHS thinks this is all going to turn out OK, specifically because of China and emerging-market demand. It does not see things turning in the developed world. That's good for people buying cheap LCDs, but honestly it has no impact on the high end of the market which it tacitly has begun to agree with me about -- that segment is at best flat from here, and quite possibly shrinking further as replacement cycles get even longer.


In short,
  • My belief the Japanese TV makers are all dead is stronger than ever. None has any means of withstanding even flat markets in the developed world and none are strong in China. Even if they were there are no margins to be had in China.
  • The U.S. and China are probably getting close to even on "revenue share" in the TV market at this point. The collapse of the U.S. market is especially bad news for brands focused here and premium products.
  • I suspect that IHS is wrong about the market size and that it will continue to shrink -- even with growth of demand in China. It would not surprise me even slightly to see global TV demand fall to 200 million by the end of the decade. Shipments were regularly below this figure through 2007. Everyone in the developed world has bought into the flat-panel / digital era by now -- even for most secondary rooms. There are simply no catalysts to maintain an accelerated rate of purchases.
  • Tablets are taking a huge portion of TV-type viewing, further depressing demand. This is a developed and developing-world phenomenon.
  • Every forecaster is calling for OLED to basically completely dominate the high end of the flat-panel world within 5 years. They are presuming that high-end LCD will simply not be able to compete with OLED.
 
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Every forecaster is calling for OLED to basically completely dominate the high end of the flat-panel world within 5 years. They are presuming that high-end LCD will simply not be able to compete with OLED.


Rogo: Hope this is correct regarding OLED in that it assumes that mass production is successful from a profitability standpoint. On the other hand, however, I believe we as consumers need high end LCD to be somewhat competitive because of the pressure that would put on OLED prices. LG, if they are the main source of OLED and have little or no competition will be able to charge higher prices than would be the case if there were still high PQ quality LCDs around.
 

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I know I've asked this a million times but I never have got an answer to it--Why can audio equipment be produced and sold at astronomical prices--the companies that do so continue to make money and continue to produce such equipment but it is 100% against SALES FORCE law here at AVS forum to conceive of ANY company being able to do the same when it comes to TVs...


Why is that?!
 
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