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I was just wondering about this. RTINGS CX values for SDR are 414 and 176 peak. IF these are the appropriate values to compare, then it's about 33% and 5% brighter respectively. Also, IF people buy the very rough rule of thumb that the human eye needs to see ~30-50% brighter to be 'noticeable' (qualitative :) ) since we have a logarithmic response, then we might say this improvement might be juuuust noticeable for the glint off some chrome or a brighter moon, etc. You won't notice anything for full screen. I'd hazard a guess that you wouldn't notice the difference unless you had a CX and C1 side by side. That's my 2 minutes of thinking about, which is always dangerous. Any other thoughts?
From a YouTube post by LTT.com, sounds like they finally achieved the goals shown in the 3rd column here:
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Image taken from [ICEL 2018] What are the future challenges for LG Display to improve OLED TV performance? ⋆ OLED
 

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I think for the 100% "window" the most important thing isn't how high it can now reach for a moment, but how much has the ABL been relaxed now that the panel is more efficient and has more heat dissipation for the high end models with the heat sink.
I think for the 100% "window" the most important thing isn't how high it can now reach for a moment, but how much has the ABL been relaxed now that the panel is more efficient and has more heat dissipation for the high end models with the heat sink.
I think you're saying possible negative impact on the display via ABL has hopefully been reduced more so than negligible increase in brightness. That makes sense if so.
 

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From a YouTube post by LTT.com, sounds like they finally achieved the goals shown in the 3rd column here:
Hmm, dunno. The talk was about the ABL and brightness, but looking at the third column, if they had really done that and achieved 90% of BT.2020, then that is the headline I would have expected; it would be absolutely huge news!
 

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I think you're saying possible negative impact on the display via ABL has hopefully been reduced more so than negligible increase in brightness. That makes sense if so.
That is what I would do, yes. I'm not that interested in the peak 100% increasing that much, that can already be quite bothersome whereas increasing the 5, 10, 25% window brightness/color volume I'm down with. People talk about HDR sometimes being too bright and hurting their eyes but this depends on the content. Scenes in games/movies with HDR highlights are quite pleasing to the eye in general (car front/rear headlights at night on racing games or movies like John Wick 3, lightning in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, neon signs in Resident Evil 3) and those can go up as much as the tv can do. But you watch The Matrix, when Morpheus takes Neo to the loading system with it's all white background, and I had to cover my eyes some, even though that's hitting a much lower nit value in part because of ABL, but since it occupies most of my 65in screen, it's harder on the eyes. But relaxing ABL a bit has benefits for things like hockey or certain games that are vibrant (Mario Sunshine, Dragon Ball FighterZ).

Hmm, dunno. The talk was about the ABL and brightness, but looking at the third column, if they had really done that and achieved 90% of BT.2020, then that is the headline I would have expected; it would be absolutely huge news!
I don't know whether they have expanded color gamut or not, but I think "more brightness!" would still be the #1 thing they would highlight at CES if they do both things. Brighter image probably makes more sense to the marketing team.
 

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That is what I would do, yes. I'm not that interested in the peak 100% increasing that much, that can already be quite bothersome whereas increasing the 5, 10, 25% window brightness/color volume I'm down with. People talk about HDR sometimes being too bright and hurting their eyes but this depends on the content. Scenes in games/movies with HDR highlights are quite pleasing to the eye in general (car front/rear headlights at night on racing games or movies like John Wick 3, lightning in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, neon signs in Resident Evil 3) and those can go up as much as the tv can do. But you watch The Matrix, when Morpheus takes Neo to the loading system with it's all white background, and I had to cover my eyes some, even though that's hitting a much lower nit value in part because of ABL, but since it occupies most of my 65in screen, it's harder on the eyes. But relaxing ABL a bit has benefits for things like hockey or certain games that are vibrant (Mario Sunshine, Dragon Ball FighterZ).

Yes, I think all of us that follow HDR and (think we) understand it, agree that we're looking for brightness in the pixel/2%/10% windows so to speak. I haven't read Dolby's 10K lumen roadmap white paper in quite a while but i don't believe they ever advocated increasing the 100% window by much if at all.
 

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You mean there isn't a 83in? Genuinely asking, I haven't seen a report yet, though I know the conference is/should be happening now. As for the nit jump, I don't know what the 25% window used to be, but the 100% currently is 150 if I'm not mistaken, so that's a 23.5% jump, in line with their claimed 20% efficiency gains. The raw number just won't go up by much on the 100% window.
I don't really know. The G1 series has the "Evo" panel with advertised brightness that tops out at the 77".

We may need reviewers to measure the LG and Sony 83 peak and full screen brightness to see what is what.

Still, a G183 would be my first choice.

- Rich
 
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As for the nit jump, I don't know what the 25% window used to be, but the 100% currently is 150 if I'm not mistaken, so that's a 23.5% jump, in line with their claimed 20% efficiency gains. The raw number just won't go up by much on the 100% window.
Here you go. I didn't collect these figures. Found them on another international forum. Keep in mind we don't know if LG's figures are D65 calibrated or Vivid torch mode.

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I don't really know. The G1 series has the "Evo" panel with advertised brightness that tops out at the 77".

We may need reviewers to measure the LG and Sony 83 peak and full screen brightness to see what is what.

Still, a G183 would be my first choice.

- Rich
For sure, we won't know what's what until the experts have them on hand. Though I would say just measuring peak brightness won't tell the whole story, have to compare color volume across both as well. Right now Sony uses the same panels but they hit lower peaks, but higher color volume.

Here you go. I didn't collect these figures. Found them on another international forum. Keep in mind we don't know if LG's figures are D65 calibrated or Vivid torch mode.

View attachment 3077387
Thanks! I think the C8 at least is probably in some sort of torch mode there, mine measured around 720, though there is always panel variance at play.

I also tried to explain what the 20% efficiency gains could mean in terms of performance on the OLED advancements for 2021 thread. I'm sure you can clear up anything I might have gotten wrong there.
 

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For sure, we won't know what's what until the experts have them on hand. Though I would say just measuring peak brightness won't tell the whole story, have to compare color volume across both as well. Right now Sony uses the same panels but they hit lower peaks, but higher color volume.



Thanks! I think the C8 at least is probably in some sort of torch mode there, mine measured around 720, though there is always panel variance at play.

I also tried to explain what the 20% efficiency gains could mean in terms of performance on the OLED advancements for 2021 thread. I'm sure you can clear up anything I might have gotten wrong there.
Right i only saw one C8 measure 800 nits so i think those numbers are not correct. The rest look like calibrated to D65.
 

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For sure, we won't know what's what until the experts have them on hand. Though I would say just measuring peak brightness won't tell the whole story, have to compare color volume across both as well. Right now Sony uses the same panels but they hit lower peaks, but higher color volume.
On the LGs you can also choose to have lower peaks with a better colour volume, by changing the "Peak Brightness" control in HDR10/HLG/DV modes. You know, the control that users ask over and over and over and over and over and over in the LG threads what it should be set to. Despite the fact that it's explained almost every week, and the defaults are correct/best in all modes. ;)
You get quite a significant difference by changing it! I found on my C8 (where you need to use the service menu) that the colours were quite a lot richer in HDR modes this way, but a lot of impact was lost with the reduced peak brightness.
 

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On the LGs you can also choose to have lower peaks with a better colour volume, by changing the "Peak Brightness" control in HDR10/HLG/DV modes. You know, the control that users ask over and over and over and over and over and over in the LG threads what it should be set to. Despite the fact that it's explained almost every week, and the defaults are correct/best in all modes. ;)
You get quite a significant difference by changing it! I found on my C8 (where you need to use the service menu) that the colours were quite a lot richer in HDR modes this way, but a lot of impact was lost with the reduced peak brightness.
Every page on the Calman Home for LG thread has this question 😂
 

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Is this LG's G1 Evo 77" oled panel using CYNORA's blue TADF technology ??


"The 77" G1 featuring their OLED EVO 2 panel, LG is calling second generation of their oled technology.

For the first time since they started shipping oleds to consumers in the mid 2010's, and the biggest jump in performance is that this generation is not just a little bit brighter. This is in large part due to the new luminous elementos for the blue light, which is the majority…"



"The first display to adopt this new structure and materials is the company's 77-inch OLED panel, but LGD will also apply it to its other panels over 2021."
 

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Marking a new innovation trajectory for the OLED industry, CYNORA today announced that device test kits for its Thermally Activated Delayed Fluorescence (TADF)-based Deep Green emitter for next-generation OLED displays are now available to customers. The development is an industry-first milestone for TADF technology, and validates CYNORA’s roadmap commitment.

Known as the cyUltimateGreen™, the product delivers efficiency of more than 20 percent, which meets current industry specifications of 150cd/A in top emission devices. It demonstrates lifetime of 400h [email protected]/cm², and color point and spectra that match today’s DCI-P3 standard. In addition, the product shows compatibility with BT2020, a color standard that requires greater color purity than DCI-P3, and one that will significantly enlarge the color depth.
 

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I doubt LGD using TADF. There is currently no blue TADF emitter available. The new more efficient blue emitter by Cynora is still flourescent.


The green TADF will be the first one, but I doubt the published lifetime is sufficient enough for an HDR TV, but for better evaluation we need the lifetime specifications for the new green TADF emitter of [email protected](=cd/m²).

With TADF we also get better values for BT.2020 and LDG didn´t puplished better numbers for BT.2020.

The new generation of WOLED is only an intermediate step of WOLED. With TADF the APL 100% window will be brighter than only 180 nits and we will get more than only 99% DCI-P3 colors.

Some reports talking from a new reflective layer combined with more efficient emitters. That can be also stand for Top Emission WOLED, but LGD currently didn´t confirmed this.

 

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Hmm, dunno. The talk was about the ABL and brightness, but looking at the third column, if they had really done that and achieved 90% of BT.2020, then that is the headline I would have expected; it would be absolutely huge news!
If the biggest addition to the stack is green and a big difference in BT.2020 (vs the other major color spaces) is the green portion, would a large jump in BT.2020 be surprising?
 
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