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Yeah I just ordered a CX for the bedroom.

Going to hold out and see if they use the new stack for 65-inch for the living room next year.
All 2022 WOLEDs are likely to use exclusively the new 3S4C / WBE / Evo-capable panel and most are also likely to be fully Evo-enabled (unclear whether they might gimp the A2, for example).

If you’re thinking about waiting to purchase a C1 during Spring Closeout next year hoping you’ll get the WBE panel, that’s a riskier proposition (and won’t have Evo-capability enabled in any case)…
 

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Yeah, they are taking the ‘continued LCD manufacturing through end 2022’ as a done deal, as well as another delay in QD-BOLED launch.

Since the ‘June samples’ have not yet gone out, it’s hard to understand whether they are forecasting a foregone conclusion or they have inside information on some change in the plan for QD-BOLED.

The ‘saving jobs’ angle only makes sense if Samsung Display knows they have nothing new to start producing in their fabs as they shutdown LCD manufacturing. So if they continue to see a bright future for QD-BOLED but have determined they need another year, this all makes sense…

The other angle to consider is what this may mean for any plans Samsung had to launch QD-BOLED. There will be a 1-2 year gap between when Samsung shuts down LCD manufacturing and when QD-BOLED has ramped to fill those 8.5G fabs (assuming all goes as well as possible).

That gap will be a period of vulnerability for SVD, certainly as far as profitability but also in terms of supply, so the ‘let’s commit to 5 million WOLED panels’ seems like a rational decision to hedge their bets and reduce their risk during this manufacturing changeover.

With a shift of one year in the overall plan, that may also translate to a 1year shift in whatever supply agreement SVD has been discussing with LGD…

And that may translate to LGD deciding they don’t need to make any further WOLED fab commitments this year.

Guangzhou moving from 60,000 to 90,000 substrates per month gets them to a maximum of ~11million WOLED panels for 2022 which will be sufficient capacity with Samsung and more than enough without them.

The difference between LGD and Samsung Display when it comes to legacy LCD manufacturing, however, is that LGD already has their ‘new thing’ and will be ready to shut down LCD manufacturing and convert to WOLED whenever the bottom falls out of the LCD market (no worries about ‘saving jobs’ for LGD).

So if Samsung delays WOLED demand by ~1 year and the tide starts turning to oversupply in the LCD panel market as DSCC is forecasting, the result may be that LGD elects to move forward with another 8.5G LCD to WOLED fab conversion for 2023/24 rather than restarting their stalled 10.5G manufacturing plan…
Has there been any reason to think LG won't get the processor chips that they need in '22-'23+? I'm making a big assumption that they don't have their own captive chip house. That may blow up the thinking right there if they do! Or for that matter, any of the top tier Chinese LCD makers expect significant shortages? That would be very interesting if SEC could take share just because of being able to supply when other can't. I know it's an issue in the Auto space based on all the news, but I haven't seen much impact in the TV space - but may have missed it. Again, the only reason it is interesting here would be if it helped them push out the QD-OLED decision without sustaining a big impact.
 

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Has there been any reason to think LG won't get the processor chips that they need in '22-'23+?
I’m not sure whether your referring to the current shortage or not, but that is for driver chips, not processor chips (and I’m pretty sure WOLED uses different driver chips than LCD in any case).

I’m not sure whether LGE has any preferential semiconductor manufacturer or not (they merged their semiconductor division with Hynix, but that’s primarily a memory manufacturer), but they design their own custom TV processors (like Sony)…

I'm making a big assumption that they don't have their own captive chip house. That may blow up the thinking right there if they do! Or for that matter, any of the top tier Chinese LCD makers expect significant shortages? That would be very interesting if SEC could take share just because of being able to supply when other can't. I know it's an issue in the Auto space based on all the news, but I haven't seen much impact in the TV space - but may have missed it. Again, the only reason it is interesting here would be if it helped them push out the QD-OLED decision without sustaining a big impact.
DSCC believes that manufacturers will continue to manufacture LCD panels at higher volumes than needed despite the growing glut because of fears of component shortages (so they’d rather over-commit on inventory).

My view is that 3-6 months from now the entire ‘component shortage scare’ will be behind us.

The pandemic interfered with supply chains while at the same time, changing consumption patterns (especially notebook and TV). It was a double-wammy that understandably resulted in some imbalances in historic supply-and demand.

Now with the pandemic fading, supply chains are largely back to work-as-usual and consumption patterns are also reversing back towards historic trends (at least for TVs, according to DSCC).

So I see little chance that we’ll still be talking about IC component shortages come 2022, let alone 2023…
 

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Sina Technology
Product diversification. The popularity of OLED TV in China accelerates

Recently, TV manufacturers launched the latest OLED TV, Skyworth launched 65-inch deformable OLED TV, Kangjia launched the APHAEA OLED TV series, Sony also held the Sony Expo in Shanghai, and launched new 83-inch OLED TV products .

Industry insiders say that, with the impact of the new outbreak of coronary pneumonia, consumers prefer greener OLED television. It is reported that the epidemic causes TV watching, home office and network education to increase, eye care health has become the choice of new television standards, harmful to the eyes of blue light emissions for the industry's smallest phenomenon , and the OLED television screenless flash phenomenon has become a consumer focus.

Recently, the price of OLED TV was close to the price of LCD TV. According to Ovy Cloud, the average sales price in China's OLED TV market dropped 10.6% compared to the first quarter of 2021. Since the first half of 2020, LCD TV panel prices continue to rise, making cause LCD TV prices to rise significantly. In fact, Kangjia's newly launched 55-inch OLED TV is priced at Rmb5,999, just 300 yuan less than the same size LCD TV. Industry analysts said the same price compared to LCD TV, comfortable eye protection on OLED TV, outstanding tiered value, popular speed on the rise.

It is reported that OLED TV by self-illuminated pixels, without backlight causing eyestrain, harmful to the eyes with blue light emissions for the industry's smallest LCD TV (LCD TV) 50%. At the same time, unlike LCD TVs, OLED TVs do not have a flickering screen that is prone to eye discomfort. OlED TV panels are known to have been certified as "low blue light emissions" and "non-screen flash" by UL and TUV Rheinland, respectively. At the same time, in Eye's safety testing process, certified as the industry's lowest blue light emission, it won Eye's healthy eye protection certification.

Since the launch of OLED TV in the Chinese market, the differentiated value of high-end products has been widely recognized by Chinese consumers. In the last year, the prices of OLED TV's have become more popular and have been similar to that of LCD TV. Data from market research agency Omdia show that since the first half of 2020, LCD TV panel prices have continued to rise, causing LCD TV prices to rise significantly. LCD TV prices rose 10.4% in April in April, while 55 inches rose 6.4%.

Meanwhile, the average selling price in China's OLED TV market dropped 10.6% from the first quarter of 2021, according to Ovy Cloud. Industry sources say rising LCD TV panel prices and the downward trend in OLED TV panel prices will affect OLED TV sales. According to Qunzhi Consulting, global OLED TV shipments will reach 6.15 million units in 2021, an increase of 71.8% on YoY, and are expected to reach 8.5 million units by 2022, an increase of 38, 2% in YoY.

LG Display, the world's only maker of OLED TV panels, will benefit from increased demand for OLED TVs, according to industry analysts. LG Display commented in its first quarter results: "The most significant part of the first quarter results were the results of OLED TV sales, which changed the lifestyle as a result of the new corona outbreak. The original differentiated value of OlED TV has been widely recognized by customers and end consumers."

Currently, LG Display's OLED TV panel factory in Guangzhou, China has a monthly production capacity of 60,000 pieces (glass panels), and the Guangzhou factory has a combined production capacity of 80,000 pieces per month with the factory in Pozhou in South Korea, and currently has a monthly production capacity of 140,000 pieces of OLED TV panels (glass substrates).

Meanwhile, LG Display will add 42-inch and 83-inch OLED TV panels this year to further enrich its product lineup. In addition, LG Display's 83-inch OLED panel, which was publicly illuminated by 20% on the recent Society for Information Display, further improves contrast and color performance. Industry sources say that TV panel production capacity, product line diversification and technological upgrades will further enhance OLED TV in the next generation of competitive advantage in the TV market.

The upcoming 6.18 (China E-commerce Festival) is a golden promotion period for home appliances. The industry expects 6.18 to be an opportunity for OLED TV sales to increase as more manufacturers launch new OLED TVs and the price of OLED TVs becomes more popular.
 

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Sina Technology

‘LCD TV prices rose 10.4% in April in April, while 55 inches rose 6.4%.

Meanwhile, the average selling price in China's OLED TV market dropped 10.6% from the first quarter of 2021…’

‘In fact, Kangjia's newly launched 55-inch OLED TV is priced at Rmb5,999, just 300 yuan less than the same size LCD TV.’

It’s probably just a temporary trend that will start reversing before year-end, but remarkable nonetheless…

But in any case, it looks like Chinese brands starting to jump more strongly onto the OLED bandwagon could provide LGD (as well as Sony) with a nice new source of momentum heading into 2022:

‘Recently, TV manufacturers launched the latest OLED TV, Skyworth launched 65-inch deformable OLED TV, Kangjia launched the APHAEA OLED TV series, Sony also held the Sony Expo in Shanghai, and launched new 83-inch OLED TV products.’[/b][/b]
 

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The 48”, 55” and 65” panels have subpixel designs optimized to work with either the newer 3S4C / WBE / Evo-enabled WOLED stack or the older 3S3C / WBC / non-Evo WOLED stack, while the 83” and also purportedly 77” panels have subpixel designs optimized only for the new 3S4C / WBE / Evo-enabled panel.

The difference should translate to larger Red:Green subpixel ratio on the 83” and 77” panels compared to the smaller panel sizes, but we don’t yet have any confirmation of that.

So at a minimum, I’d expect 48”, 55”, and 65” WOLED panels to have different WBE-optimized subpixel designs in 2022, and it’s possible that all panel sizes may have their subpixel sizes tweaked for next year.
77" Panels have always had different sub-pixel structure compared to the smaller panels. You are incorrectly assuming those differences have anything to with changes to the emitter layer.
 

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77" Panels have always had different sub-pixel structure compared to the smaller panels. You are incorrectly assuming those differences have anything to with changes to the emitter layer.
You could be correct - the only subpixel pictures I have access to are those from Rtings which are always from sub-77” panels.

Do you have access to any older 77” subpixel pictures?

The key point is that it’s been proven/confirmed that LGD used the same subpixel design in 2020 and 2021 for the smaller panel sizes (48”, 55”, 65”) and that that subpixel layout was designed to support either the ‘old’ (2016) 3S3C/WBC/non-Evo WOLED stack or the ‘new’ (2020) 3S4C/WBE/Evo-capable WOLED stack, while the 77” and 83” panels were not intended to support panel/stack mixing and so could have been designed for optimal WBE performance without needing to worry about WBC performance.

LGD certainly had the freedom to introduce new / optimized subpixels at 77” than they used in 2019/2020, but that doesn’t mean they did. The only way to have any idea would be to see 77” subpixel pictures from a 77C9 and a 77CX…

And while we’re on the subject, are you aware of any comparisons between color volume of different WOLED panel sizes?
 

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There is a partial photo of a 77" C8 from 2018 in this review (link includes correct time offset). Unfortunately he didn't include all the colors. Rtings only tests 55" OLEDs so only useful for comparing to other 55" OLEDs.
The 88" 8K here but again can't be compared due to the very different pixel pitch.
 

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There is a partial photo of a 77" C8 from 2018 in this review (link includes correct time offset). Unfortunately he didn't include all the colors. Rtings only tests 55" OLEDs so only useful for comparing to other 55" OLEDs.
The 88" 8K here but again can't be compared due to the very different pixel pitch.
Thanks, but that doesn’t tell us much.

77” Red was too small in 2018 and it’s much larger now (but we don’t know since when: 2019? 2020? 2021?).

Perhaps with WOLED prices coming down, we can convince Rtings to start buying 77” WOLEDs going forward…
 

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It is reported that the epidemic causes TV watching, home office and network education to increase, eye care health has become the choice of new television standards, harmful to the eyes of blue light emissions for the industry's smallest phenomenon , and the OLED television screenless flash phenomenon has become a consumer focus.
I like non-PWM to.
Here is the certification database.
 

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There is a partial photo of a 77" C8 from 2018 in this review (link includes correct time offset). Unfortunately he didn't include all the colors. Rtings only tests 55" OLEDs so only useful for comparing to other 55" OLEDs.
The 88" 8K here but again can't be compared due to the very different pixel pitch.
The 77" C8 has a different panel than the 77" C9!



Curious how long quantum dots last? Do they burn out or lose brightness over time?
Currently organic emitters last much longer than inorganic ELQD. Blue is always an issue. It´s the
rarest color in nature, because it requires the highest energy to be created. ELQD has the same issues than OLED.
There is a reason why no long lifetime blue QD (transmissive and emissive) is available and Samsung working only with green and red transmissive QD for color conversion of blue light created by LED or OLED.
The debate about organic will burn in and inorganic not is completely nonsense and only driven by marketing.
You can´t compare LCD technology with self emitting millions of pixels in an OLED TV. It´s a debate which needed to be enlightened and put right. Even Vincent Teoh doing wrong assumption about this topic, every time when he talking about MicroLED, QD and OLED. Every light will fade over time. Organic in OLED standing for an carbonaceous emitter and not vegetables. ELQD having crystalline raw materials.


 

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great!
Indeed, T-CON is also very different.
OLED77C8PUA
OLED77C9AUB
OLED77CXAUA

77C9 and 77CX had similar model names stamped on the board.
77C8 "LE770AQD-ALA1"
77C9 "V19 77U CPCB"
77CX "V20 77U"
 

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I’m not sure whether your referring to the current shortage or not, but that is for driver chips, not processor chips (and I’m pretty sure WOLED uses different driver chips than LCD in any case).

I’m not sure whether LGE has any preferential semiconductor manufacturer or not (they merged their semiconductor division with Hynix, but that’s primarily a memory manufacturer), but they design their own custom TV processors (like Sony)…


DSCC believes that manufacturers will continue to manufacture LCD panels at higher volumes than needed despite the growing glut because of fears of component shortages (so they’d rather over-commit on inventory).

My view is that 3-6 months from now the entire ‘component shortage scare’ will be behind us.

The pandemic interfered with supply chains while at the same time, changing consumption patterns (especially notebook and TV). It was a double-wammy that understandably resulted in some imbalances in historic supply-and demand.

Now with the pandemic fading, supply chains are largely back to work-as-usual and consumption patterns are also reversing back towards historic trends (at least for TVs, according to DSCC).

So I see little chance that we’ll still be talking about IC component shortages come 2022, let alone 2023…
Thanks for you thoughts--
 

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The 77" C8 has a different panel than the 77" C9!





Currently organic emitters last much longer than inorganic ELQD. Blue is always an issue. It´s the
rarest color in nature, because it requires the highest energy to be created. ELQD has the same issues than OLED.
There is a reason why no long lifetime blue QD (transmissive and emissive) is available and Samsung working only with green and red transmissive QD for color conversion of blue light created by LED or OLED.
The debate about organic will burn in and inorganic not is completely nonsense and only driven by marketing.
You can´t compare LCD technology with self emitting millions of pixels in an OLED TV. It´s a debate which needed to be enlightened and put right. Even Vincent Teoh doing wrong assumption about this topic, every time when he talking about MicroLED, QD and OLED. Every light will fade over time. Organic in OLED standing for an carbonaceous emitter and not vegetables. ELQD having crystalline raw materials.


This is great, everyone, thanks.

All we need now is a picture of the 77CX pixel structure to have the complete sequence.

But from the images that have already been found for C8 and C9 we can already get an idea what LGD has been changing as far as subpixel design on the 77” panels;

2018: R << W
2019: G < B < R < W (red enlarged
2020: ?
2021: G < B < R = W (red enlarged again)

We can see how this compares to the 55C1 captured by Rtings (which is the same subpixel design as the 55CX):

083AEE77-1E48-4F20-8DE3-9F41C6E4300F.jpeg


Using my similar simple codification, I’d characterize this as:

55C1 (and 55CX): G = B < R < W

So similar to the 77C9 layout with the possible change of a slightly smaller relative Blue subpixel.

And if we compare to the large-panel 2020 subpixels D-Nice captured off of an 83A90J:2021 LG OLED C1 + G1 Owner's Thread + FAQ - No...

Which I would characterize as G < B < R = W the primary change versus the 55C1 appears to be red increased again to approximately match the size of white.

Red has been WOLEDs weakest color and the new 3S4C / WBE / Evo-enabled stack makes it even weaker, so an Evo-optimized subpixel design having the largest Red:White Subpixel ratio we’ve ever seen makes sense.

Blue is stronger by +20% in the 3S4C stack so the blue subpixel being slightly reduced in favor or red also makes sense.

Green is much stronger in the 3S4C stack. The new ‘green luminance element’ improves green efficiency by as much as +100%, so an Evo-optimized green subpixel could be smaller by as much as 50%, but appears to have been reduced by less than that.

One explanation is that LGD has decided that fully-saturated color volume is now as important or more important than maximizing peak White level.

The only way we’ll be able to determine that is to compare fully-saturated peak measurements off of a 77G1 to those of a 77C9.

But of course, the easiest way to determine whether the current 77/83” subpixel designs have already been optimized for 3S4C performance or not will be to see whether LGD introduces any changes (like relatively smaller green subpixel) in the 2022 panels…
 

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You are ignoring other reasons why one might change sub-pixel geometry that have nothing to do with color efficiency. The driving circuits for each sub-pixel need to go somewhere and are not symmetrical in layout for all 4 colors. This is why you get those weird shapes instead of simple rectangles of various sizes for each color. They have buried circuit traces and components inside some of those indentations. The spare room varies by pixel pitch which is why the shapes change with panel size. Obviously color efficiency plays a role too but it needs to be balanced with what they can fit in the available "dead space" of the panel.
 

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This is great, everyone, thanks.

All we need now is a picture of the 77CX pixel structure to have the complete sequence.

But from the images that have already been found for C8 and C9 we can already get an idea what LGD has been changing as far as subpixel design on the 77” panels;

2018: R << W
2019: G < B < R < W (red enlarged
2020: ?
2021: G < B < R = W (red enlarged again)

We can see how this compares to the 55C1 captured by Rtings (which is the same subpixel design as the 55CX):

View attachment 3142780

Using my similar simple codification, I’d characterize this as:

I will be getting a LG 83C1. What is needed to tack pictures like this?

- Rich
55C1 (and 55CX): G = B < R < W

So similar to the 77C9 layout with the possible change of a slightly smaller relative Blue subpixel.

And if we compare to the large-panel 2020 subpixels D-Nice captured off of an 83A90J:2021 LG OLED C1 + G1 Owner's Thread + FAQ - No...

Which I would characterize as G < B < R = W the primary change versus the 55C1 appears to be red increased again to approximately match the size of white.

Red has been WOLEDs weakest color and the new 3S4C / WBE / Evo-enabled stack makes it even weaker, so an Evo-optimized subpixel design having the largest Red:White Subpixel ratio we’ve ever seen makes sense.

Blue is stronger by +20% in the 3S4C stack so the blue subpixel being slightly reduced in favor or red also makes sense.

Green is much stronger in the 3S4C stack. The new ‘green luminance element’ improves green efficiency by as much as +100%, so an Evo-optimized green subpixel could be smaller by as much as 50%, but appears to have been reduced by less than that.

One explanation is that LGD has decided that fully-saturated color volume is now as important or more important than maximizing peak White level.

The only way we’ll be able to determine that is to compare fully-saturated peak measurements off of a 77G1 to those of a 77C9.

But of course, the easiest way to determine whether the current 77/83” subpixel designs have already been optimized for 3S4C performance or not will be to see whether LGD introduces any changes (like relatively smaller green subpixel) in the 2022 panels…
 
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