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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just received my new HLN617W Samsung 61" Widescreen DLP. Purchased from Magnolia HiFi in Portland. I called on Tuesday, they had 11 in stock, and I picked mine up on Friday. Picture looked great right out of the box. Connected to a new Samsung SIR-TS160 High Def receiver and DirecTV box. I was impressed with the normal cable picture until I finally got Satellite hooked up and watched the NBA game in high definition tonight (Pacers vs. Celtics). It was incredible. Picture is bright, colors deep, and detail is astonishing! You won't be able to view regular TV again once you experience this. I don't believe I need to do any tweaking to the picture -- it just can't get any better. The only thing I noticed is that if there was really fast motion during the basketball game you would get some blurring of the people in the stands, but did not detract from the overall experience. Cable is only going to be as good as it would be on a normal TV, pretty much the same with satellite. It doesn't seem to improve picture quality in those two mediums. I checked out the new Starwars on DVD and it looked great also, but not near the quality of High Definition. Channel 199 on DirecTV was showing some nature show from Japan, and it truly takes nature to another level. From sand dunes to snow flakes, you can see incredible detail. I had alot of trepidation in buying this set after seeing all the problems people have had with various TV's on this forum, but feel I made a great choice. I give Magnolia HiFi and this Samsung DLP a high recommendation!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Paid $4600, plus $500 for Samsung stand (which I highly recommend, it looks great). Probably could have negotiated lower but I felt that it was reasonable considering all the demand out there for this unit.
 

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Congrats on the new tv! I wish I was as happy with the picture on my HLN617W.


I am starting to wonder if perhaps the fact that I have been enjoying HDTV on a 36" direct view for the last 3-4 years is causing me NOT to have the same appreciation for the picture on this set. Thus far I have not been happily surprised with ANY input source on ANY of the tv's inputs.


Here is a list of the things that I find as "issues" on my set:


1.) Color banding... also known as "clay faces". I've seen it on DVDs such as Spiderman and ATOC, Final Fantasy and others as well as HD programming on HDNET, NBC OTA and CBS OTA.


2.) Sparkles/Twinkles/Screen Effect issue. Sitting 14 feet back from this screen, I would've thought that screen door would be practically impossible to see. I don't have eagle eyes by any stretch of the imagination, but find this a little distracting. What is VERY distracting is the twinkling that is ocurring on brightly lit portions of the screen where the screen door is VERY evident and there seems to be some sort of rainbow pixel things happening. Almost prismatic as if they are reflecting light into the spaces between the pixels, i.e. the "screen door".


3.) Horrid normal DirecTV picture. We're talking VHS quality on the GOOD ones, at best. I much prefer the interlaced picture via S-video that I get on my 36" direct view with RCA DTC100 STB. FWIW, I am viewing the DirecTV via the Samsung TS-160 box over the DVI cable.


I don't think there is much that can be done about #3. I HOPE that #1 is curable or at least able to be attenuated through application of some service menu tweaks. #2 is the the one that worries me, since I can't figure out what the heck it is that is causing this. I don't have another DVD player or HTPC to try to view the DVDs that show the "twinkle". I am ALMOST certain that I have seen the twinkles on normal digital and HD OTA as well. It really drives me nuts.


Like I said though, I am very glad that you are enjoying yours. Hopefully once someone runs some ColorFacts calibrations and posts their results I can tweak away most if not all of these issues.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm very sorry to hear of your problems. I don't seem to have any of the problems that you are experiencing. The only abnormality I have noticed is, like I said, fast moving camera views seem to blur until motion is slowed. I figured that was just some artifact of high def. I don't believe it is a problem with the TV. You can tell that they use different filming techniques when filming in high definition because you never see the camera moving very fast, and they seem to hold on a wider view of the action. DirecTV picture quality is just ok on some channels, but other channels come in great and high definition pictures are perfect. I have not experienced any of the clay faces you talk about, I have seen no rainbow effect, and I don't see any dead mirrors. I may be one of the lucky ones....
 

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dscotta,


I think the fast-motion blurring may be a side effect of Faroudja's deinterlacing algorithm. They had to choose between a sharp image with jaggies or a "smoothed" one with clean edges. They opted for the latter since it's harder for the eye to spot slight blurriness in a moving object than artificially jagged edges on that object.


The Silicon Image deinterlacers are reputed to give a slightly sharper picture, but at the cost of more jagged edges. Just my $.02.
 

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Quote:
1.) Color banding... also known as "clay faces". I've seen it on DVDs such as Spiderman and ATOC, Final Fantasy and others as well as HD programming on HDNET, NBC OTA and CBS OTA.
This is a major problem I have as well. And it's beginning to be very noticeable. I picked up the AVIA DVD, so hopefully I can start to tweak it to make it not as noticeable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You most certainly could be right. I thought maybe it was an issue of 720p vs 1080i. Some say that 720p is better for fast moving high def than 1080i, and I don't know if there is a way to tell whether I'm watching 720p or 1080i. I do know that they obviously don't film a basketball game the same way with high def cameras because they don't seemto show close action and slower movement of cameras with a wider view. It is so clear and bright that it makes it difficult to go back to regular cable....
 

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You're watching 720p, the native res of the display. The question is wheather or not it was converted from 1080i by your set top box. ABC-HD or ESPN-HD are sourced at 720p and never converted, so they should give the optimal image for this setup.
 

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OK, bearing all this 720p vs. 1080i stuff in mind. What is everyone's opinion in terms of the combination of the Samsung TS-160 set top box and the Samsung HLN series tv's? Is setting the output of the STB to 720p or 1080i the right decision?


Is the native resolution of the Sammy DLP's 720p? Then in my mind I should probably set the STB to output 720p rather than 1080i as I had it. I switched to 720p and popped on over to HDNET a little while ago. Now I didn't actually A-B test between 1080i and 720p as the program I was watching ended before I could do that... but I THINK that the 720p did look a little better on that station. Normal SD DirecTV still looked like fetid monkey a$$ though.


And the hits just keep onnnnnnnnn coming. :rolleyes:


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Jeff, I think it depends on what the source materials are and what you think if the TV can really do a better job converting the signal than the STB. If you are receiving a 1080i signal, such as an OTA CBS HD broadcast, and if you think the TV can do a better job down converting (and de-interlacing) the signal from 1080i to 720p (this is probably true), then you want to set the output on the STB to 1080i. On another hand, if you are receiving 720p signal, then you definitely want to output the 720p signal as is to the Samsung DLP. However, I did an experiement with my SIR-T165 with a 720p OTA broadcast (a local ABC station), and I can't tell any difference between outputing a 720p or a 1080i signal to my DLP set. I watch mostly 1080i broadcasts, so I have set my STB to output 1080i. BTW, I use the DVI connection from the T-165 to my HLM507W.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by pspun
Jeff, I think it depends on what the source materials are and what you think if the TV can really do a better job converting the signal than the STB. If you are receiving a 1080i signal, such as an OTA CBS HD broadcast, and if you think the TV can do a better job down converting (and de-interlacing) the signal from 1080i to 720p (this is probably true), then you want to set the output on the STB to 1080i. On another hand, if you are receiving 720p signal, then you definitely want to output the 720p signal as is to the Samsung DLP. However, I did an experiement with my SIR-T165 with a 720p OTA broadcast (a local ABC station), and I can't tell any difference between outputing a 720p or a 1080i signal to my DLP set. I watch mostly 1080i broadcasts, so I have set my STB to output 1080i. BTW, I use the DVI connection from the T-165 to my HLM507W.
psspun,


That's what I was afraid of. I know that CBS and HDNET use 1080i, ABC and ESPN-HD (whenever) will use 720p. Not sure what NBC or PBS are using. Can you switch the button on the back of your STB with it turned on? I have been powering down, then switching.


Maybe I was just tired, but watching "Bikini Destinations" last night in 720p SEEMED to look better than the 1080i presentation... even though the source SHOULD be 1080i. I didn't notice any real banding issues like I do with other OTA broadcasts and normal SDTV. Unfortunately, there was no other HD programming on at the time to check if banding was present. Sure wish I could get the darn PBS HD loop. Rats.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Yes, you can switch when the STB is on. It will reset in a couple of second automatically. BTW, NBC is using 1080i, I don't know about PBS it will broadcast digital signal sometime in May locally.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have my TS160 set for 720p. When I change the setting to 1080i I get a white line down the left side of the screen, so I kept it at 720p. So what happens when I watch a 1080i broadcast with it set to 720p? I also saw bikini destinations last night and with mine set to 720p the picture was perfect. On a side note, I sure wish they would make it so you could label your inputs...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dscotta
I have my TS160 set for 720p. When I change the setting to 1080i I get a white line down the left side of the screen, so I kept it at 720p. So what happens when I watch a 1080i broadcast with it set to 720p? I also saw bikini destinations last night and with mine set to 720p the picture was perfect. On a side note, I sure wish they would make it so you could label your inputs...
dscotta,


I also used to have the white line down the left side of my screen using the DVI input. However, I went into the TS-160 service mode, tapped the centering controls a click or two to the left and all is well. Just seems like the picture was slightly off-center and that was the cause. I didn't change the centering at all when going to 720p and the picture appears nice and centered regardless of which resolution or aspect ratio I use. Perhaps try that to see if it elminates the white line.


Later,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In the TS160 directions, it tells you to set the switch to the highest resolution that your tv is capable of displaying. My HLN617 displays up to 1080i so that's what I was going to switch to, but like I said I get a white line down the left side of the screen so I have been keeping it on 720p and I haven't noticed any problem in any of the HD material I have been viewing. The native resolution of the set is 720p.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dscotta
In the TS160 directions, it tells you to set the switch to the highest resolution that your tv is capable of displaying. My HLN617 displays up to 1080i so that's what I was going to switch to, but like I said I get a white line down the left side of the screen so I have been keeping it on 720p and I haven't noticed any problem in any of the HD material I have been viewing. The native resolution of the set is 720p.
Cool. Yeah, I THOUGHT that the TV was native 720p, so I'll stick with that rez out of the TS160 for the time being... see what I think tonight with The Tonight Show and whatever is on HDNET. Plus it seems like I need to go monkey with my attic antenna and see if I can get it to receive PBS without losing any of the other stations. So much fun screaming down to the wife "Is that better? How 'bout this? What?? WHAT?!?!?! I said IS IT BETTER!! What's the SIGNAL STRENGTH!!! THE STRENGTH!!! NEVERMIND, I'm COMING DOWN!!!!" :)


Fun stuff.


Let me know if you can't solve your white line issue and I will get the particulars of what I did to eliminate mine when I get home tonight.


Thanks,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't know how to go into the service menu on the TS160 so I would appreciate any help in solving the white line problem.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by dscotta
I don't know how to go into the service menu on the TS160 so I would appreciate any help in solving the white line problem.
d...


It's not the service menu on the TS160... it's just in the User Menu... well now... wait a second. Maybe I am on crack. I can't recall if I did the raster centering in the TS160 or on the TV itself. Either way, it's in the User Menu, NOT the Service Menu.


Thinking about it some MORE... I THINK it was in the TV's user menu. Hit "Menu" on your TV's remote. Scroll down to the "PC" setting. I think there is a choice for raster centering or something there. I can verify for you once I get home. Just can't recall which component and which menu item I screwed with.


Later,

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks, Jeff. I'll check when I get home and see if I can make the change. So you are going to leave your STB on 720p, not 1080i?
 
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