AVS Forum banner

2841 - 2860 of 2870 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,171 Posts
I do, but I need to know for certain it's the avr that's bad. Also, I haven't checked to see how their warranty works...are they going to hit me up for shipping charges etc?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Generally you pay for the shipping to them and they pay to ship it back. It definitely makes sense to determine if it the AVR because if they determine the AVR is in good working order they may even ask for you to pay the shipping back. For Onkyo for the state of Georgia you would ship to ABL Electronics in Michigan. Obviously contact them first and they should tell you what steps to take. I know they have authorized service centers in most states as well. They have one in Suwanee but not sure what they service.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,138 Posts
"I have also tried a brand new psu for the htpc thinking it was noise being introduced in the source; it didn't help."

Also, I forgot to add that my old psu was a 600w unit and I went to a 750w unit and the new more powerful psu made the clicking/ticking sound MUCH WORSE; any thoughts on why that might happen???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
200 Posts
Onkyo RZ830 - Speakers/Subs making heartbeat, ticking, pulse, thump, sounds. Hear audio clip.

I originally had thought that only my mini marty um18 sub was making this odd constant sound, but then I listened in close to my other speakers and they are all making this constant heartbeat/pulsing sound, it's just the um18 makes it much louder (I can easily hear it from 3ft away during a normal volume movie).


The problem just showed up this a week or so ago and it's really really irritating to say the least. The system has been set up for a little over a year now and the short and simple version of it is:

Media room is on the 2nd floor of a two-story home.
AVR: Onkyo RZ830
Epson 5040 pj
Source: htpc
5.1.4 speaker setup

Subs:
1x mini marty um18 w/nx3000d
2x vbss pa460 18"s w/nx3000d (recently added)


What does this sound like to you???? It comes out of ALL the speakers, but it's louder through the subs.
Audio clip of the sound coming out of my mini marty um18: https://voca.ro/jbbFUrivE5D



I've basically tried unplugging everything and starting with some bare minimum pieces to try to see what introduces the sound, but so far it seems to always be there now; it's boggling my mind.

I've tried routing everything through different wall outlets to no avail.


Ground loop maybe? I'm fairly confident that IT IS NOT a grounding issue, as I can purposely introduce a ground loop by switching a component to a different wall outlet and this produces a different sound (typical ground loop buzz sound, which is not the ticking/clicking sound I can't get rid of). I've tried different outlets and I've tried using pigtails on each component; no luck. I've grounded the RZ830 via the ground screw on it (on the back chassis) to the different components and the wall outlet screw, but nothing changes the ticking/clicking sounds.


Interference somewhere? I have a usb wifi card on the htpc that sits beneath the AVR, but no other wifi/radio/router/etc anywhere near this room, and definitely nothing newly added anywhere near it. I've tried playing a movie and then disconnecting EVERYTHING while the movie plays (pulled every usb connection, wifi off, bluetooth off, etc), yet the noise continues.


The heartbeat sound only occurs when devices are powered on and a sound signal is being sent. No sound is made if the system is off or no audio is being played. If I am playing a movie and push "mute" on the avr the heartbeat/ticking/clicking sounds stops completely. The ticking/clicking sound remains in the speakers if I turn off all the subs and their amps and completely remove all of those connections from the AVR. So the subs/amps arent' the issue.


I have a spare AVR, but it is older and doesn't do hdmi so I don't have a way to replicate my normal setup with hdmi to the epson 5040. If I had a newer AVR I could swap them and determine if the RZ830 is the cause.


I've tried 3 different pc's and they ALL produce the same noise. I have also tried a brand new psu for the htpc thinking it was noise being introduced in the source; it didn't help. I've tried 2 different GPU's thinking it was a problem there; didn't help either.

I've tried multiple different HDMI cables and even a Fiber optic HDMI cable without success.

I tried an old Xbox 360 and connected it via the old analog cables and IT PLAYS SOUND PERFECTLY. WHY? :confused: This was playing older basic audio codecs and not my current HD audio via HDMI, so does that tell anyone something about what is happening....????

I have tried playing through the htpc via an Optical audio cable (toshlink) and it reduced the level of the ticking/clicking sound a good bit, but it was still there, so it's not just an HDMI connection issue now.

I also tried doing a factory reset on the AVR and that didn't help any either.


Thoughts? Suggestions?

Bad AVR?


Thanks



@TJMotter
I have been offline for a while so apologies for the late reply. Hard to say what is failing but it is definitely nothing you have done. The interesting thing is that the analog inputs are working (via the XBOX). The strange thing is that the signal path isn't really a lot different. To explain, Analog and Digital signals flow through an Onkyo like this:


Analog
1) L/R signals are sent to the volume/selector chip which performs an analog to digital conversion and then sends it to the DSP
2) the DSP processes the signal and breaks it into the appropriate number of output channels (L/R/SL/SR/SW etc.)
3) the DSP sends this information through a digital to analog conversion (for each output channel) and sends it back to the volume/selector chip which routes it to the main amp section


Digital
1) input signals are sent to a chip called the DIR (basically acts like a digital switch) that simply switches the input to whatever digital device you are using (coax, HDMI or Optical) and routes that to the DSP for processing
2) the DSP takes the resulting output (L/R/SL/SR/SW etc.) and sends it to the digital to analog device and sends it back to the volume/selector chip which routes it to the main amp section.


The only difference here is that the Digital signals go to the MainDIR for pre-processing. The rest of the signal path is identical (it even uses the same traces) so the fact that the XBOX works but the digital signals have an issue points to this MainDIR chip as my 1st pick as the problem area.


Interestingly, Zone 2 and Zone 3 follow the same route as the Digital signal except they use a different DIR chip. You might want to route one of your digital signals out to Zone 2 (and throw some speakers on it) to see if the problem exists there too. If not, it would reinforce that the MainDIR chip is probably the source of the issue.


I haven't looked at an RZ830 (and I can't find a schematic) but this chip is probably a 48pin device and is usually quite small. On an RZ800 it is marked as Q1200. As for what is wrong, a popping noise is often a symptom of a bad capacitor. There a usually half a dozen (or so) capacitors in this section of the circuit. Most are used to store power for the voltage rails (these chips need both 3.3V and 5.0V). These kinds of chips can require more power (instantly) than the power rail can supply so these capacitors are used to keep a store of extra power close to the chip to deal with peak power draw. The popping sound is typically caused when one of these capacitors has degraded to the point where it can't supply enough power. This causes an interruption in the ability of this chip to do its job so you get a "pop".


This is probably something you don't want to tackle but at least this might help you understand what is going on here.



HTH
Todd
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Maybe a bad capacitor somewhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,138 Posts
I have been offline for a while so apologies for the late reply. Hard to say what is failing but it is definitely nothing you have done. The interesting thing is that the analog inputs are working (via the XBOX). The strange thing is that the signal path isn't really a lot different. To explain, Analog and Digital signals flow through an Onkyo like this:


Analog
1) L/R signals are sent to the volume/selector chip which performs an analog to digital conversion and then sends it to the DSP
2) the DSP processes the signal and breaks it into the appropriate number of output channels (L/R/SL/SR/SW etc.)
3) the DSP sends this information through a digital to analog conversion (for each output channel) and sends it back to the volume/selector chip which routes it to the main amp section


Digital
1) input signals are sent to a chip called the DIR (basically acts like a digital switch) that simply switches the input to whatever digital device you are using (coax, HDMI or Optical) and routes that to the DSP for processing
2) the DSP takes the resulting output (L/R/SL/SR/SW etc.) and sends it to the digital to analog device and sends it back to the volume/selector chip which routes it to the main amp section.


The only difference here is that the Digital signals go to the MainDIR for pre-processing. The rest of the signal path is identical (it even uses the same traces) so the fact that the XBOX works but the digital signals have an issue points to this MainDIR chip as my 1st pick as the problem area.


Interestingly, Zone 2 and Zone 3 follow the same route as the Digital signal except they use a different DIR chip. You might want to route one of your digital signals out to Zone 2 (and throw some speakers on it) to see if the problem exists there too. If not, it would reinforce that the MainDIR chip is probably the source of the issue.


I haven't looked at an RZ830 (and I can't find a schematic) but this chip is probably a 48pin device and is usually quite small. On an RZ800 it is marked as Q1200. As for what is wrong, a popping noise is often a symptom of a bad capacitor. There a usually half a dozen (or so) capacitors in this section of the circuit. Most are used to store power for the voltage rails (these chips need both 3.3V and 5.0V). These kinds of chips can require more power (instantly) than the power rail can supply so these capacitors are used to keep a store of extra power close to the chip to deal with peak power draw. The popping sound is typically caused when one of these capacitors has degraded to the point where it can't supply enough power. This causes an interruption in the ability of this chip to do its job so you get a "pop".


This is probably something you don't want to tackle but at least this might help you understand what is going on here.



HTH
Todd

Awesome amount of info.

Thanks a bunch!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I have 4 TX-8050's scattered throughout the house that were all part of the free recall repair due to bad DSP chip, which I had done. While dusting the cabinet, I noticed (later closely with a light) that all the internal boards and circuitry look pristine and brand new.

I wonder if as part of the recall, Onkyo simply replaced most, of not all, of the internals. These receivers certainly sound very good, if not better than before. Maybe they replaced the TI DAC with the later Asahi Kasei for convenience sake. Probably not, but would be great if so.

Anyone might have more information?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
Most likely they have replaced a bord(s). These days, not to many replace just a bad component.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Onkyo 818

OK...

My Onkyo has just failed! I have an 818 and I'm pretty sure the DTS chip is the issue. I've had it 6 years (and it's just outside it's extended warranty with Richer Sounds in the UK (arse!))...

I've called Onkyo - who have basically said - sod off!

I've found someone who can reflow the DTS chip, but they only want the HDMI Board, not the whole receiver...

Does anyone have any instructions on how to remove the HDMI board without breaking anything else?

Cheers...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
I have never dealt with the 818, but usually you remove the side cover screws(3 per side), there are probably three screws at the back of the cover(top edge).
Remove the cover by lifting the back up first.
Unplug all the connectors, remove screw that connects to the "side vertical board" and there is a plastic standoff, that you will have to squeeze together to release the tabs, on the right side of the board.
There is a nasty white connector, in the middle of the board, next to the two ribbon cables, that it is not easy to remove. Only bare wires are plugged into the connector. You will have to push down on the plastic frame(front or back) and then pull up the wires. I'm not sure about the metal connector, though. It may have some release tabs.
Remove all the HDMI screws from the back.
Than you pull the board toward the right, to unplug the three left connectors from the vertical board.
All this is, looking from the rear of the receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,056 Posts
OK...

My Onkyo has just failed! I have an 818 and I'm pretty sure the DTS chip is the issue. I've had it 6 years (and it's just outside it's extended warranty with Richer Sounds in the UK (arse!))...

I've called Onkyo - who have basically said - sod off!

I've found someone who can reflow the DTS chip, but they only want the HDMI Board, not the whole receiver...

Does anyone have any instructions on how to remove the HDMI board without breaking anything else?

Cheers...
Double check that also the tech has the firmware and capability to load into the DSP chip..
DSP hips are available but the firmware availability is the challenge..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
I would talk to Tjmotter. He is in the US, but he knows what he is talking about.
I have just used some no clean flux(flows like water) and reheated the chip with a hot air station(cheap chinese one), at 435F for like 2-1/2 minutes. Question marks in the firmware version, are all gone. This is a 838. But with this receiver, I have HDMI input issues as well, no video in, only out is working. Needs a new HDMI IC. Waiting for it, from Ali.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I have an 818 that works but had a question. How does the 818 compare to todays receivers? I know it doesn't have the latest capabilities like 4k and some higher end formats. It used to be well regarded for its higher end Audyssey processing. Is that still relevant compared to todays receivers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
See this thread too late

The famous and typical TI DSP D830K013BZKB3 problematic symptoms(no audio, no network) just showed up on my 5008 due to very light use. I googled then see this thread but it is too late. I was thinking ONKYO was a quality brand and I did not receive any mail or email about the recall for so many years. I contacted Onkyo customer service and I was redirected by them to third party repair shop which asked me to ship 5008 to them then pay $65 for initial inspection before they can tell me how much to re-flow the DSP chip.It is too bad that ONKYO just terminated the special service program on 12/31/2019 for the DSP problem related recall.


Re-balling BGA is not very easy without proper tools, so I decide to re-flow/re-heat the chip using hot air rework station. Does anyone know what kind of flux to use for this case? Is it ok to use KESTER 951 Lead Free Flux NO CLEAN to flood the BGA pins? I think Kester 186 is too sticky for this job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
I have used the Kester 951 on a 838 and it work. I don't know for how long though.
I have kept the hot air probably like 2-1/2 minutes, at 435 F.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I have used the Kester 951 on a 838 and it work. I don't know for how long though.
I have kept the hot air probably like 2-1/2 minutes, at 435 F.
Thanks very much for the info! My plan is about 60 to 90 seconds, 220°C(428F) by measuring the surface temperature of the DSP chip.



I will not remove the HDMI board from 5008. Hope the components under the HMDI board will not drop off automatically.



For preheat board and soak part, will try to use hair dryer instead at the beginning after flooding the DSP pins with flux. It seems to be not easy to control well on this part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
454 Posts
With no lead solder, you need to heat it for longer time.
I have sensor as well, but in my opinion, it is not needed to go overboard.
I week ago, I was removing an HDMi IC, and I was maxing out my hot air station, at 480 F and it took me a few minutes, maybe 4-5, until it started to melt the solder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
With no lead solder, you need to heat it for longer time.
I have sensor as well, but in my opinion, it is not needed to go overboard.
I week ago, I was removing an HDMi IC, and I was maxing out my hot air station, at 480 F and it took me a few minutes, maybe 4-5, until it started to melt the solder.
Thanks! I will heat it longer to about 2.5 minutes. I was worried little bit about what if I over cook that DSP chip as I will not be able to buy any replacement chip with 5008 firmware any more. :) I think it also depends on how much/fast heat can conduct from top of the chip to its soldering pads besides the high melting temperature of no lead solder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
I have an 818 that works but had a question. How does the 818 compare to todays receivers? I know it doesn't have the latest capabilities like 4k and some higher end formats. It used to be well regarded for its higher end Audyssey processing. Is that still relevant compared to todays receivers?
If I'm not mistaken I don't believe anyone addressed your questions so I'll do my best within my limited understanding.

I did a lot of research when I bought my 818 and came to the obvious conclusion there was nothing even remotely comparable to it in its day, especially at its price point of well under $1000. If you search this site you can probably find where I said that I wish I had bought a spare!

Upon renewing that research recently, I came to more or less the same conclusion. There was no peer to Audyssey back then, but for reasons I don't fully understand Dolby has since surpassed it, and Audyssey fell by the wayside. Someone more knowledgeable than I could probably fill in the details, but the minds behind Audyssey were passionate about their product. I believe there is a special forum on this site in which they addressed some very detailed technical questions. I haven't been active very much since then but needless to say I was impressed by their product.

If it were necessary to replace my 818 today, I'd lean in favor of one of the Yamaha RX-3080 variants, but if your 818 is working well I would definitely keep it in service. Replacing it with a comparable product today would cost on the order of $2000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
I have an 818 that works but had a question. How does the 818 compare to todays receivers? I know it doesn't have the latest capabilities like 4k and some higher end formats. It used to be well regarded for its higher end Audyssey processing. Is that still relevant compared to todays receivers?
If I'm not mistaken I don't believe anyone addressed your questions so I'll do my best within my limited understanding.

I did a lot of research when I bought my 818 and came to the obvious conclusion there was nothing even remotely comparable to it in its day, especially at its price point of well under $1000. If you search this site you can probably find where I said that I wish I had bought a spare!

Upon renewing that research recently, I came to more or less the same conclusion. There was no peer to Audyssey back then, but for reasons I don't fully understand Dolby has since surpassed it, and Audyssey fell by the wayside. Someone more knowledgeable than I could probably fill in the details, but the minds behind Audyssey were passionate about their product. I believe there is a special forum on this site in which they addressed some very detailed technical questions. I haven't been active very much since then but needless to say I was impressed by their product.

If it were necessary to replace my 818 today, I'd lean in favor of one of the Yamaha RX-3080 variants, but if your 818 is working well I would definitely keep it in service. Replacing it with a comparable product today would cost on the order of $2000.
Thanks. It works fine. I was thinking of upgrading to Atmos and was looking at the Denon X3600 or X4500 which both have Audyssey XT32.
 
2841 - 2860 of 2870 Posts
Top