[Socketman]

Incredible , more features and less money, new room eq ...goodbye audyssey. something had to go

http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/onkyo-adds-hdmi-20-60hz-4k/110298

 

[KidHorn]

Based on past history, their new HDMI 2.0 ports will fail the day you buy a 4K TV.

 

[Br0s]


I think more features and a cheaper price would scare me off a bit. They are already the value brand...

 

[Socketman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0s  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498567


I think more features and a cheaper price would scare me off a bit. They are already the value brand...

Unfortunately there are more people in that market than in the market I like to shop in. Seems like you can spend up to 1g or go up to 3g or more, I will sit on my Denon till the XMC-1 shows its face or I can afford a krell foundation . I will take quality every time over quantity.

 

[Vishwa Somayaji]



Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498500


Based on past history, their new HDMI 2.0 ports will fail the day you buy a 4K TV.

A little harsh.

 

[Steve119]


RE the HDCP 2.2 protocol,  will this mean that my nr626 will become obsolete in that I won't be able to watch new releases in 1080p or 4K when this protocol is released? 

 

Sorry if this question sounds daft, but I've been looking everywhere to find out an answer for this. 

 

[zeus33]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498393


new room eq ...goodbye audyssey. something had to go .......

That may fly with these cheap receivers, but if they try to replace Audyssey with their in house version on the 8 and 9 series, they will shoot themselves in the foot. The main reason the 818 was so popular, was because of the XT32 at that price point. They already made a mistake by pushing it up to the 929 at a much higher price. I'm assuming that Audyssey has been raising their licensing price to include their tech on receivers and Onkyo is sick of it. Unfortunately, until Onkyo proves their room correction is as good (not going to happen), it will cost them sales if they implement it on the 8 and 9 series.

 

[Socketman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498970


That may fly with these cheap receivers, but if they try to replace Audyssey with their in house version on the 8 and 9 series, they will shoot themselves in the foot. The main reason the 818 was so popular, was because of the XT32 at that price point. They already made a mistake by pushing it up to the 929 at a much higher price. I'm assuming that Audyssey has been raising their licensing price to include their tech on receivers and Onkyo is sick of it. Unfortunately, until Onkyo proves their room correction is as good (not going to happen), it will cost them sales if they implement it on the 8 and 9 series.

The reasoning is pretty obvious to me. They want to create the scenario in peoples minds where you try and balance all the options available, a personal give and take, which will inevitably lead you to purchase a more expensive receiver.

 

[Chu Gai]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498899

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0s  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498567


I think more features and a cheaper price would scare me off a bit. They are already the value brand...

Unfortunately there are more people in that market than in the market I like to shop in. Seems like you can spend up to 1g or go up to 3g or more, I will sit on my Denon till the XMC-1 shows its face or I can afford a krell foundation . I will take quality every time over quantity.

What makes you think that the Foundation represents quality?

 

[M Code]



Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24498970


That may fly with these cheap receivers, but if they try to replace Audyssey with their in house version on the 8 and 9 series, they will shoot themselves in the foot. The main reason the 818 was so popular, was because of the XT32 at that price point. They already made a mistake by pushing it up to the 929 at a much higher price. I'm assuming that Audyssey has been raising their licensing price to include their tech on receivers and Onkyo is sick of it. Unfortunately, until Onkyo proves their room correction is as good (not going to happen), it will cost them sales if they implement it on the 8 and 9 series.

The new AVRs use a Cirrus Logic DSP, and they can use their proprietary, royalty-free Rooom EQ system..

No-brainer, save the expensive Audyssey royalty...


Just my $0.05.... 👍😉

 

[mogorf]



Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499628


The new AVRs use a Cirrus Logic DSP, and they can use their proprietary, royalty-free Rooom EQ system..

No-brainer, save the expensive Audyssey royalty...


Just my $0.05.... 👍😉

How much is the royalty-fee of Audyssey? How much is the cost of developing a proprietary room correction system? Do you have first hand information?

 

[M Code]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499713


How much is the royalty-fee of Audyssey? How much is the cost of developing a proprietary room correction system? Do you have first hand information?

Development cost is significant...

Writing code, debugging and validation, plus time. Note that I was the program manager for a major audio brand that developed its own room EQ software and its cost was about $485K...

Its cost was amortized into (2) brands and over a family of products..

Note that each DSP supplier such as ADI, Cirrus Logic, TI have their own library of royalty-free post-processing modes including room EQ, virtualizers, MP3 restore, headphone surround, bass extension...

They do not carry a major marketing name, but in today's cash & carry price ultra-competitive AVR market they work just fine for the entry level AVR user and save the brands some $..



Just my $0.05... 👍😉

 

[Br0s]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499713



How much is the royalty-fee of Audyssey? How much is the cost of developing a proprietary room correction system? Do you have first hand information?

 

Doesnt matter... (and I bet you it's not at all cheap) Once it's done, it's done and paid for. R&D on the front end will pay itself off easily on the backend. Obviously they have done the cost analysis, and so has every other company with a proprietary RC system which is almost all of them. The other guys obviously are happy with their decision from a cost standpoint.

 

Regardless, Onkyo dropping Audyssey (even if on the low end only) is a huge mistake IMHO from a marketing standpoint.

 

[Socketman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499580


What makes you think that the Foundation represents quality?

Since I only have reviews to rely on that is my only point of reference other than the official owners thread. As for the owners thread, advocates of any brand can tend to be over zealous. I think Kal Rubinson is trustworthy and he will be evaluating the Foundation soon and has already reviewed the Yamaha CX-A1000 which is on my short list and he owns the Marantz 8801 so he has better view of the field than I do. I don't want any networking or ipod or any of the other crap I don't ever use, just a quality surround pre/pro. I may even consider a bryston . Something I truly wonder is if anyone will review Emotiva's XMC-1 should it show up. S&V just reviewed the krell and gave it a very favorable review. Though the styling is at the bottom of the list I like the looks of the Krell.



What makes you think Krell is not a quality brand??

 

[mogorf]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0s  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499815


Doesnt matter... (and I bet you it's not at all cheap) Once it's done, it's done and paid for. R&D on the front end will pay itself off easily on the backend. Obviously they have done the cost analysis, and so has every other company with a proprietary RC system which is almost all of them. The other guys obviously are happy with their decision from a cost standpoint.


Regardless, Onkyo dropping Audyssey (even if on the low end only) is a huge mistake IMHO from a marketing standpoint.

Sorry for asking so many questions, but how do you know Onkyo dropped Audyssey only for the low end and not the entire range? BTW, I also think it's a mistake.

 

[Socketman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499834


Sorry for asking so many questions, but how do you know Onkyo dropped Audyssey only for the low end and not the entire range?

Good question since only 2 new AVR's have been announced so far. Unless someone has inside info it will remain to be seen,.

 

[M Code]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Br0s  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499815


Doesnt matter... (and I bet you it's not at all cheap) Once it's done, it's done and paid for. R&D on the front end will pay itself off easily on the backend. Obviously they have done the cost analysis, and so has every other company with a proprietary RC system which is almost all of them. The other guys obviously are happy with their decision from a cost standpoint.

Incorrect...

Software has varying costs...

Initial development, maintenence and updates for forward compatibility...


Keep in mind that an entry-level AV buyer has limited knowledge and his 1st concerns are..
a. How much power output watts
b. How many HDMI inputs
c. Does it handle 3D or 4K
d. Does it have iPod/iPhone capabiity
e. Does it have USB & network
f. What type of remote control

Quote:
Regardless, Onkyo dropping Audyssey (even if on the low end only) is a huge mistake IMHO from a marketing standpoint.

Bottom line...

Onkyo lost big $ over the last (3) years, thats why they sold 55% of their USA distribution to Gibson. They need to stop the deficits..


Just my $0.05... 👍😉

 

[mogorf]



Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499852



Bottom line...

Onkyo lost big $ over the last (3) years, thats why they sold 55% of their USA distribution to Gibson. They need to stop the deficits..


Just my $0.05... 👍😉

Did they? Didn't the two companies (Gibson and Onkyo) form a strategic alliance (partnership) in form of a joint venture focusing on design and development of consumer audio products now based in Hong Kong? IMHO, this is a bit different news than what was said above.


More here .

 

[M Code]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf  /t/1523128/onkyo-does-it-again#post_24499917


Did they? Didn't the two companies (Gibson and Onkyo) form a strategic alliance (partnership) in form of a joint venture focusing on design and development of consumer audio products now based in Hong Kong? IMHO, this is a bit different news than what was said above.


More here .

Gibson wants more visibility in the CE biz...

Thats why they bought Teac/Tascam.

Here is the subject press release link..

http://tascam-ca.com/news/display/1304/


@ the recently held NAMM show (January, 2014) in Anaheim, CA Gibson had a large booth showing all of its products including Teac/Tascam. Can't speak for Gibson, but the timing is apparently ripe for procuring various CE brands who are struggling. Gibson's objective is to be the largest music and sound business in the world with the ability to deliver a broad entertainment experience to the customer, spanning musical instruments to the most innovative recording and audio/visual devices, Tascam is the leader in portable digital audio recording devices...


Just my $0.05... 👍😉

 

[M Code]

To date Gibson either owns or controls the folloiwng brands..

Gibson, Epiphone, Dobro, Valley Arts, Kramer, Steinberger, Tobias, Slingerland, Maestro, Baldwin, Hamilton, Chickering, Wurlitzer, Cakewalk, KRK Systems, Cerwin-Vega, Stanton, Onkyo, Integra, TEAC, TASCAM, and Esoteric.



For more information on Gibson Brands, check out http://www.gibson.com


Just my $0.05... 👍😉