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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I went with my wife looking for a video display device for the home theatre we're planning in the basement (okay, okay...that I'm planning!). Canadian Sound in Brampton had a Sony VW11HT set up with a Greyhawk screen in a light controlled viewing room.


Though the picture was okay, it just didn't seem to grab me and my wife liked virtually every kind of display other than the PJ. :( Is it possible the setup is to blame? Can this projector actually put out an image to grab you? Compared to the Pioneer Elite RPTV it was pretty miserable and the plasma screens of course attracted my wife as well. The PJ was set up to run off a progressive scan DVD player and they played some of Shrek which looked okay and some of a submarine movie which looked washed out.


So your votes please...is this a set up issue or should I be looking for a D-ILA (which the salesman had never heard of) or a DLP? What do you think I can convince my spousal unit with? I await your thoughts.


Thanks,

Glenn
 

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Don't look side by side a RPTV, a plasma and a projected image: the projected image will ALWAYS loose. In any lighting condition.

Just guess this: why are true cinema theaters in dark rooms?

Front projectors are the best way to have a BIG picture, I mean 80" wide at least, something a RPTV or plasma will never do.

I tend to say if you liked the plasma and can afford the price, get it. Get it also if you want a plug&play display with no setup. But if you have a bit of passion for tweaking and setting up a front projector AND the room where it will be, then the VW11HT is an excellent machine.


Carlos
 

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I too was under-impressed with the Sony 10HT and 11HT. They can do much better, but they do these incremental releases with very little improvement simply to maximize profits I guess. To say the least I am very much dissappointed.


One of the benefits to a front projection is the larger screen size over RPTVs and Plasma devices. To improve the image you see from a front projector you should look to a quality scaler like the quadscan from focus enhancement or the native rate scaler line from Foroudja. There are others that are quality devices, see the video processors section of this forum. Also, you should look for a brighter projector than the Sony 11HT, such as the Studio Experience 13HD. Thirdly, you can wait until the digital projectors increase in resolution, currently the standard is XGA, the next step up would be SXGA. This increase in resolution adds detail to the image. This is important because as you increase the size of the projected image the natural structure (the pixel for digital projectors) of the projector becomes more visible. However, you may have to wait awhile before the SXGA is the defacto standard resolution in the HT market.
 

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Hi Glenn,


Do you have your current TV calibrated with Video Essentials or Avia? If not, it is possible that you and/or your wife were responding to the over-bright, over-saturated look of most uncalibrated TVs. This gives them a lot more "punch" but does not give them a natural-looking picture (more like cartoon-looking!).


Out of the box, the Sony 10HT/11HT has a natural picture which is not overblown like most TVs setup in stores. Admittedly it needs tweaking but mostly to improve black levels and lower the green gain a little. Also, the picture is bigger and thus not perceived as being as "sharp" as a smaller TV (just like comparing a 13" TV to a 27" TV...even a crappy 13" TV looks sharper)


I purchased my 10HT from Canadian Sound and have been thrilled with the quality, but my wife and I had previously watched (for several years) a 27" Sony CRT which was calibrated with Video Essentials so we were used to a natural-looking picture. I must admit we barely looked at the RPTVs in the store because we were there for the 10HT, so I can't comment on their setup.


Mike
 

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I recently demoed the Sanyo PLV60 against the Sim2 200. The 60 was jittery along edges and blacks tended to merge into the black bars and borders. Shadow detail was very low. The Sim2 was more filmic and a lot better blacks.


One DVD tested was THE MUMMY in PAL. About 15mins into the film we have the library scene. When the curator talks to Rachel Weisz, pay close attention to his jacket and lapels. The Sim2 clearly differentiates the lapel from jacket and screen border. The Sanyo 60 does not, it's all the same black.


When someone next demos the Sony VPL-VW11HT, please try The Mummy if possible and watch the library scene. It's good for DLPs too as the torches show up the rainbow effect.


Since I plan to buy the Sony (until Hitachi act with the 5500), I would be very interested in the response.


Miro.
 

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I think part of what you saw is the lack of brightness. Because of the CRT heritage of FPTV, I think we've become accustomed to think in relatively low-lumen terms.


This issue is exactly what motivated me to go for the Boxlight 38T, the Sanyo XP21N clone. Even after calibration to maximize black level, I'm still putting out around 2000 lumens, or around 60 L/square foot on my Grayhawk screen. I have compared my ISF calibrated RPTV to this setup, and it gets blown away by the Boxlight/Grayhawk combo.


If you want depth and dimensionality IMO, you gotta have lumens on digital projectors to overcome the lower black level/contrast as compared to CRT.


Dan
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mike,


In response to your question, I have a Toshiba 50inch RPTV which has been professionaly calibrated, although because it is older now (I'm resisting replacing it for now so that I can fund my home theater venture) it is far from perfect. I have to agree with your assessment that seeing a front projector while in a store full of alternate displays makes it hard to judge the picture quality.


You actually have the 10HT in your home so I value your opinion. How much do you like it? How were your dealings with Canadian Sound? Do you use any kind of outboard scalar or HTPC?


Thanks,

Glenn


PS And thanks to the others for their help too!
 

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I will start by saying that I am not an "ultimate picture quality" guy. I just want to sit down to watch a movie and not notice anything about the picture quality. The Sony allows me to do that. Does it have perfect blacks and contrast? No way, but they are good enough that if the movie holds my interest, I don't notice them at all. If the movie really sucks, my eyes start wandering and I can see some flaws (although not many) in the shadows.


The Sony's internal scaler is good...in fact I have trouble believing that a progressive scan DVD could look much better than my current setup. I am currently using a really cheap interlaced Samsung player that I got for free when we booked a holiday! Next year when progressive scan players are cheap and ubiquitous we'll have a look but until then we're really happy with the picture.


The kicker is the resolution: at 1366X768 this machine can display full 720P high-def TV. Although we haven't yet taken the plunge into HDTV, we saw a demo at a dealer and were very impressed by the amount of detail in the picture coming from the 10HT. Assuming the copy protection cops don't kill HDTV this projector should serve us well for years to come.


Canadian Sound was good to deal with. We actually reached a price agreement over the phone (since they are about an hour away) and they honoured it and opened the box so that I could try out the projector before I purchased. They were not really knowledgable about tweaking the projector, so I gave them some links (like avsforum!). Don't really know if they've tried them since I haven't had any reason to call them since everything has worked perfectly (insert "knocking on wood" sound here)


Mike


P.S. Glenn I sent you a PM as well.
 

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Quote:
Though the picture was okay, it just didn't seem to grab me and my wife liked virtually every kind of display other than the PJ. Is it possible the setup is to blame? Can this projector actually put out an image to grab you?
Quick answer: Yes, if this projector is projecting brightly lit day-time images (like outdoor day-time scenes).


Other projectors can keep the "wow" factor going with dim scenes as well.


I disagree with the other poster who asserts that direct-view or RP sets will always win out.


I think that inch-for-inch, many of the new projectors...like the Sharp 9000 and the Sanyo, give a image that is rich, incredibly detailed, naturally colored, with plenty of "punch" that "grabs you" even more than most well-designed RP HD sets.


The Sonys are great projectors...but they can look washed out with scenes that are not bright-outdoor images.


I've seen the sonys and the sharp now in many different contexts and on many screens and I've got to say that the Sharp really can 'wow' you. If the screen isn't too big (100 inches or less) the gray-hawk seems to really add a sense of depth and richness to the picture and improve the blacks without making the image too dim.


Trust me. Can you bring some DVDs to somewhere demoing the Sharp 9000?


-dave
 

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I forgot to mention that in my case there was a price consideration as well. The Sharp 9000 and others are quite a bit more expensive (especially in Canada where our dollar is at an all-time low against the US dollar!).


There are definitely trade-offs with all projectors around cost, resolution, black level, contrast, colour, scaling ability, and ease of use (and lots of other factors I'm sure). In my case the 10HT was the winner but your mileage may vary!


Mike


(edited for bad grammar)
 

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Most of the stores I have been to had poor setup. It's seem that most of those places just don't tweak the projector like it should be. It could be different with the Sony VW11HT but I saw a demo of the Sony VW10HT and I am sure that this projector is way better than what I saw at the store.


My reason for saying this? I have a Viewsonic PJL830 (Davis DL450 clone). I saw a demo of a Dreamvision (Davis clone as well). The quality of the picture was really poor at the store nothing compare to what I have at home. If you want to really convince your wife of a front projector solution, you should try to find a member of this forum that have a good setup (something comparable to what you want) and ask him (or her) for a demo.


It's true that for a projector like mine you need a external scaler. The internal scaler is not good enough. For the Sony it could be different. But I have been reading post on this forum for a long time and the Sony VW10HT owner also need to do some tweaking to increase PQ.


When you have seen a good projector with the right adjustments it is really thought to go to a small 42 flatscreen TV or a huge 65 inchs RPTV that take most of your leaving room.


Good luck!
 

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I think it should be noted that there is a significant price difference between the Sharp XV-Z9000Uand the Sony VW11HT. I've heard of the Sonys going for as low as $5600, and they're still very limited in the US. And it's much quieter than the Sanyo PLV60 (30db vs 39db.) I'd really like to see all three mentioned PJs "side-by-side" on a Grayhawk after they've all been properly tweaked.


Subjectively, I've found owning Sony products to be much more satisfying than most other brands. My experience is that they "just work," and keep on working. That's a big IMHO though :D .
 

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If a DLP can display such an image (here, the SHARP 9000 with HDTV source), then we're in paradise guys! that's what I want to see on a large screen. I've seen the 11HT and the contrast surely did not look like that but this is only a SHARP 9000 screenshot and have not seen it in real life with a good source. The comparison is thus unfair so far.

http://www.chariot.net.au/~spizz/Sha...0Sharp%202.jpg
 

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That screen is showing a 720p HDTV signal, so that gives it an advantage. Looks amazing though.
 
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