Opinions on Von Schweikert speakers wanted!

I've had the VR 4 Gen II's for a couple of years now and have really enjoyed them. Von Schweikert Audio has a program that allows you to trade in the VR-4's, Gen II's or 4.5's for the VR-5's, or have the speakers upgraded with VR-5 type drivers, crossover, wiring, binding posts, etc.


I opted to keep the Gen II's and update them. I'm still breaking them in, but the increase in detail and increased efficiency were readily apparent. I think I lowered my gain by 2 or 3db from the pre-upgrade setting. I'd also say that the low end has tightened up a bit.


For you Von Schweikert owners out there:


The advantage of the upgrade option is a lower price and better low end bass than the VR-5. The larger VR-4 cabinet allows bigger bass drivers to be used than in the VR-5. According to Albert, the upgraded VR4's and VR-5 perform identically above 40Hz. The upgrade costs $2,500.


With a trade-in, you get a more attractive speaker with a smaller footprint, definitely a plus where the SAF (Spouse Acceptance Factor) is concerned. The price is $3,500 for trade in, or a bit more if you choose a more expensive cabinet finish.


Sorry for going off-track, but I thought other Von Schweikert users who stop in would be interested in the upgrade information. Back to your question: the Gen II's (as well as the higher end Von Schweikerts) are known for their midrange and bass performance, soundstage & imaging, and for having a very large sweet spot. The VR-5 appears to continue in that vein with improved mid-range detail and tighter bass.


I'm glad that you've had the opportunity to demo the VR-5s; if the pair you heard had not yet been fully broken in, then they'll only get better if you decide to get a pair of your own. Good luck, and let us know how it all turns out.


FYI, I'm using a Pass Labs X-5 for amplification and Nordost Red Dawns for speaker wire.



8-24-00 UPDATE

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See the post below from Von Schweikert Audio: the trade-in program has ended, but the upgrade program will be available until next year.



[This message has been edited by Will Binegar (edited 08-24-2000).]

Luca,


As Will and I haved discussed privately, I opted to trade in my VR4's and went to the VR5's.


The VR5's are a totally different cosmetically as compared to the VR4 line, in terms of looks as well as size. The size factor as well as the fact that my VR4's were pretty beat up (thanks to my cats) led me to go to the new cabinet. The new cabinets are also very high end from a fit and finish perspective and the wood grains are beutiful (I paid extra for the dark cherry finish).


The VR5's leave off where the VR4's started. The best way to describe these speakers are accurate and detailed sometimes almost to detailed. Whatever is on the source (CD in my case) you hear. This makes some CD"s very bright (they are) and others better.


Depth and soundstage are very good. My initial sense was that there wasless bass than the VR4's, however, the real answer is that the bass is much more accurate and tight. Initially it registered as less bass but over time it feels much better and more accurate. Imaging and soundstage are also excellent.


They are not overly sensitive to electronics or amplifier types (I use an Audio Research Ref1 for audio only, a Meridian 568 for video only, and a Sunfire Cinema Grand connected to both the preamp and surround processor to drive the speakers). The VR5's work very well with solid state amps (I still prefer a good tubed preamp). What type of preamp are you thinking of to go with your amps?


One of the nice things about buying from Von Schweiekert is that the owner of the company Albert Von Schweiekert is allways available for a consult or a chat. It is nice to be able to talk directly to the designer / owner of the company.


Bottom line, these speakers will reveal (brutally sometimes) whatever source material you are driving them with. Either way these are a killer pair of speakers and you would be hard pressed to find speakers in the $6k range that can touch them.


Oh, best thing, my cats have no interest and stay away from the VR5's!


Steve

Will and Steve..thank you!


I was indeed impressed with the VR-5s as driven by mono tube amps. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of those amps but I'll find out for you as soon as I make another stop to audition this setup. The speakers sounded sooo sweet and the soundstaging so precise, it felt as if I were in the middle of the crowd at a concert (The Eagles' Hell Freezes Over was playing). The thing that struck me as well was that the music was playing at very relaxed low volume levels, and all the detail was brought forth impeccably and instantly revealed, and you could hear every nuance playing with no effort to strain your hearing at all. Now, I call THAT being neutral!.. Some awesome speakers, I tell you!


As far as preamp, my theory is the source should come to the amps as clean and unaltered as possible. This means no processing done at all. The first processing of the signal is done right at the amps. In theory, the pre should only have a volume control in a little box, all pieces and electronics used being top notch.


I also heard that there are some mods available to tap directly into the digital stream on a dvd player thus bypassing DAC processing of any kind. What do these mods consist of, and what benefit do they bring to the equation? I would assume a cleaner sound is achieved. Can you technically explain what goes on?


Any recommendations on your choice of tube amps to drive the VR-5s?


Thanks!


Luca

Luca / Jack,


Yes, the goal of a preamp is to provide gain without otherwise influencing the signal. In the real world this remains a goal and not reality. Preamps tend to have some type of sonic signature. The goal is the pick one that works for you Some people are crazy for accuracy others warmth and musicality.


It should be noted that the preamp and the amp need to integrate together as a unit and as such should be carefully evaluated and selected as a unit. Therefore the choice of a tube amp needs to be evaulated along with the preamp (solid state or tube).


In terms of the DVD players the processing within the player is typically for the DA for video. The audio stream can also be processed DA and then come out analog to the preamp. Either way you need to have a DA conversion process take place beore the preamp (unless you are using an all digital setup like Meridian which is digital all the way to the speakers and the DA process happens at the speaker which contains the amp).


In terms of HT, yes Albert is going to be back in that game. Albert has manufactured for me a prototype of a VR5 center channel speaker (LCR57) which is an exact match for the VR5's. The center does not have any shielding and is geared for projection systems or where interference from a TV is not an issue. Imagine a smaller VR5 on its side with the same drivers just arranged slightly differenty (the tweater sits on top of the midrange, with the woofers to either side).


You gents may want to give Albert a call, he is allways willing to talk and give system advice.


Steve

Will,


The center is a custom job Albert made for me to fit into my cabinet (it is less than 9" tall). As my speaker was going in a cabinet we went with a cosmetically no frills speaker cabinet (the cabinet is incredibly well braced and rigid, you will hurt your knuckles if you knock to hard!).


The production models will be lsightly taller and have a finished cabinet. Contact Jeff (see above post) or Albert for more details.


Sonically the speaker is outstanding with the same qualities of the VR5. As usual with VR speakers the speaker is very accurate what you put in is what you get out.



Steve

Steve,


I was so worked up about the VR upgrade I spoke with Jeff this AM to discuss upgrading my VR4Silver or trading in for the 5's. I mentioned the above posts as the motivator and passed along this website to him. Glad to see VS is active! Jeff mentioned they will be addressing the HT market with new models & improved product. Hard to believe it can get better!!! Jeff said the upgrade to the 5 was like lifting a veil off the VR4!!Oh my!!


Check out www.warnerimaging.com web site. They produce superb amps and they don't get a whole lot of fanfare. My older VTE model offers the speed and dynamics of solid state, the warmth, weight, and liquidity of tubes. My older Superphon pre-amp (passive) does not introduce its character into the chain, so the amplifiers' sonics remain true, revealing, and totally. engaging. (I'm a former Spectral owner)


Look forward to hearing and posting VS info!!


Jack

Steve, Jack, Will, et all...


I went back as promised to audition these gems one more time. I can't resist one more day!...This setup sounded as close to being inside the auditorium listening to the music playing live as I never imagined would be possible to duplicate.


By the way, the VSs are being driven in this setup by a pair of Rogue's mono block vacuum tube amps, the 120s I believe they are called. The preamp used on the first day I went in was a MCCormack (?). It was as neutral and accurate as possible. But...on this second trip, he'd set up a preamp which I can't remember the name now (short name, british made, light blond faceplate, nice size, does anybody know which one I'm referring to?), and I have to tell you, the sound coming out of that system was impressive indeed! Marvelous, sweet, luscious, velvety, like Bushmills Black Bush whiskey feels when it glides down your throat. Absolutely smooth as glass...


I must add the gentlemen there have modified a stock Pioneer DVD player substantially in the analog circuitry as it leaves the stock DAC. I agree with these folks in that 90% or more of what you hear is analog anyway. And there is where most tweaking efforts can bring forth the extra edge. The fact that the Pioneer was using its stock DAC and the results were this impressive overall, would lead one to believe the improvement the DAC offers to the music is marginal at best.


Anyway, I am just babbling...I was impressed by this setup, and am thinking seriously of owning one.


Can anyone give me any reasonable alternatives for a setup that matches this caliber in the same $15,000 range? Just for the fun of comparison..


Thanks,


Luca


[This message has been edited by propeller_beach (edited 08-27-2000).]