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Thinking about switching from PS3 as a blu ray player, and upgrading to the OPPO BDP-103. Question is - if I'm connecting this to my Receiver (which powers my speakers) - will I not get the audio processing and DAC from the OPPO? That is - will my AVR take over the audio processing, making the OPPO a bit of a waste? I'm sure I can set my AVR for video pass through, so I take advantage of the video processing. But can anyone advise?


My setup:

TV: Panasonic ST60

Receiver: Denon AVR-300

Speakers: Sierra-1


Thanks for your help!
 

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Connecting using HDMI will not change the audio signal from player to receiver, except for any audio processing in the receiver like Audyssey or other room EQ, which can be turned off for either Movies or Music, or not used at all if your room has been treated for SQ issues. Using other digital connections will limit only the 4 highest rez Dolby audio formats to a lower form. Both SACD and DVD-A will require HDMI or the 7.1 channel analog input, albeit for different reasons.


You can connect through the 7.1 output on the Oppo for player control of signal on the analog side.


Generally analog out means the player completely controls the DAC activity. Higher Dolby formats like Dolby True HD, I believe, will require a conversion to LCPM.

Hope this helps
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmkorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24541420


Thinking about switching from PS3 as a blu ray player, and upgrading to the OPPO BDP-103. Question is - if I'm connecting this to my Receiver (which powers my speakers) - will I not get the audio processing and DAC from the OPPO? That is - will my AVR take over the audio processing, making the OPPO a bit of a waste? I'm sure I can set my AVR for video pass through, so I take advantage of the video processing. But can anyone advise?


My setup:

TV: Panasonic ST60

Receiver: Denon AVR-300

Speakers: Sierra-1


Thanks for your help!

If you plan on playing SACDs and DVD-As with the 103 then I would suggest buying it. If you are just going to watch DVDs and Blu-rays I'd suggest buying a less expensive quality player.


Bill
 

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If you plan on bitstreaming to the Denon via HDMI, there's nothing to be gained on the audio side of things from the Oppo.

On the video side it would depend on the VP of your display vs that of the Oppo.

From everything I've read the PS3 is a pretty decent BD player....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmkorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24541420


Thinking about switching from PS3 as a blu ray player, and upgrading to the OPPO BDP-103. Question is - if I'm connecting this to my Receiver (which powers my speakers) - will I not get the audio processing and DAC from the OPPO? That is - will my AVR take over the audio processing, making the OPPO a bit of a waste? I'm sure I can set my AVR for video pass through, so I take advantage of the video processing. But can anyone advise?


My setup:

TV: Panasonic ST60

Receiver: Denon AVR-300

Speakers: Sierra-1


Thanks for your help!

It sounds like you might be thinking the Oppo is more of a miracle drug than it really is. For BDs, the PS3 is still likely to be the most reliable player on the market, simply because Sony keeps the firmware updated better than any other brand or model and I imagine just about every BD is still tested on the console. Display and AVR manufacturers are also more likely to do compatibility testing with the PS3. If your display is 1080p (native) with 1080p BDs (the vast majority) there's not going to be any appreciable difference in PQ, with the possible exception of darbee - which I haven't seen yet, but you didn't say you were thinking of going with the 103D, just the regular 103. As I understand it the regular 103 does have mandatory noise filters applied, at least for one of the two HDMI outputs, which should help with overcompressed video sources like dvd, or satellite, cable, streaming, in the event you planned on routing any of those signals through the box. If you don't like grain, it might curb that for you too. It also likely does a better job at deinterlacing/scaling than the PS3, but again that's not going to be an issue with the majority of BDs themselves if you have a full 1080p display, just better at converting dvd, 1080i and 720p sources.


Like your PS3, assuming you don't have a first gen fat, the Oppo should be able to either pass the undecoded signal to the AVR or decoded to PCM. It's analog outputs will be useless to you with your AVR, because your AVR doesn't support multi-channel analog inputs. So, if it has better DACs, that won't even come into play, unless upgrading your AVR, in which case, the new AVR will likely sport an upgraded DAC too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24550953


4K Blu-ray players will probably be available by Christmas. Are you sure you want to buy a blu-ray player now?

Maybe... not likely... if so with little to nothing to play... It takes content to drive a format. With BD the installation base of supporting displays was dramatically higher and it still didn't grow as fast as studios wanted/expected. If you're thinking it'll be implemented like BD3D, I wouldn't get my hopes up there either. Studios don't have near the incentive they had for promoting 3D content and manufacturers so desperate to sell new displays that they subsidized the cost, and getting some studios behind a new 4K format will be a very hard sell. Not to mention, if anything BD3D support is already being scaled back, with major retailers carrying fewer titles and copies of those they do, and studios, like Disney, curbing 3D support themselves.


A digital world is what most studios want and some want it to be digital only, yesterday. That's where their priorities are firmly planted at the moment, with the obvious exceptions like Criterion, Twilight Time, and some others whose livelihoods depend on discs, as once everything goes digital, studios will no doubt become the exclusive distributors of thier properties. I'm sure boutique companies would love to sell you The Seven Samurai or Fright Night for $100 a pop, as a return to the LD premium is probably the most likely scenario for a physical 4K format emerging in the near future. The best we can reasonably hope for is something along the lines of DVHS, but I'm reluctant to predict that happening either. Sure, maybe everyone who buys a 4KTV and premium priced player combo will get an exclusive copy of Avatar in 4K to go with it, but prices won't be low enough this year to make that any kind of tempting, much less enough to incite widespread adoption.


I hope I'm wrong. I admittedly don't have the contacts I used to; but I haven't heard of any viable movement on the physical 4K front. in terms of pre-recorded media And the last I heard it was still a few years away, if it happens at all. Digital needs to peak or physical media needs to really start to surge again for some studios to turn their attention toward a new physical format, especially when they no longer see physical media as being in their best interest.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24551272


Maybe... not likely... if so with little to nothing to play... It takes content to drive a format. With BD the installation base of supporting displays was dramatically higher and it still didn't grow as fast as studios wanted/expected. If you're thinking it'll be implemented like BD3D, I wouldn't get my hopes up there either. Studios don't have near the incentive they had for promoting 3D content and manufacturers so desperate to sell new displays that they subsidized the cost, and getting some studios behind a new 4K format will be a very hard sell. Not to mention, if anything BD3D support is already being scaled back, with major retailers carrying fewer titles and copies of those they do, and studios, like Disney, curbing 3D support themselves.


A digital world is what most studios want and some want it to be digital only, yesterday. That's where their priorities are firmly planted at the moment, with the obvious exceptions like Criterion, Twilight Time, and some others whose livelihoods depend on discs, as once everything goes digital, studios will no doubt become the exclusive distributors of thier properties. I'm sure boutique companies would love to sell you The Seven Samurai or Fright Night for $100 a pop, as a return to the LD premium is probably the most likely scenario for a physical 4K format emerging in the near future. The best we can reasonably hope for is something along the lines of DVHS, but I'm reluctant to predict that happening either. Sure, maybe everyone who buys a 4KTV and premium priced player combo will get an exclusive copy of Avatar in 4K to go with it, but prices won't be low enough this year to make that any kind of tempting, much less enough to incite widespread adoption.


I hope I'm wrong. I admittedly don't have the contacts I used to; but I haven't heard of any viable movement on the physical 4K front. in terms of pre-recorded media And the last I heard it was still a few years away, if it happens at all. Digital needs to peak or physical media needs to really start to surge again for some studios to turn their attention toward a new physical format, especially when they no longer see physical media as being in their best interest.

4K is going to be the future. In a few years pretty much the only TVs available will be 4K. 4k Blu-ray is also coming with a lot of 4K movies too. Almost all movies shot the past few years have been in 4k resolution or higher. It won't cost the studios any more to make a 4k Blu-ray than a normal Blu-ray. Maybe not by Christmas but within a year you'll start to see 4k Blu-ray players for sale.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24550953


4K Blu-ray players will probably be available by Christmas. Are you sure you want to buy a blu-ray player now?
The BDP-103 thru BDP-105D already provide 4Kx2K (HD upscaled to 2160P) like many other BD player vendors, however its very doubtful without some real industry news concerning 4K blu-ray media, that there will be anything called a 4K Blu-ray player by Christmas.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmkorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24541420


Thinking about switching from PS3 as a blu ray player, and upgrading to the OPPO BDP-103. Question is - if I'm connecting this to my Receiver (which powers my speakers) - will I not get the audio processing and DAC from the OPPO? That is - will my AVR take over the audio processing, making the OPPO a bit of a waste? I'm sure I can set my AVR for video pass through, so I take advantage of the video processing. But can anyone advise?


My setup:

TV: Panasonic ST60

Receiver: Denon AVR-300

Speakers: Sierra-1

Using an Oppo BDP 103 with a good AVR is your opportunity to buy 2 sets of what you only need one set of.


Furthermore, if you spend BDP 103 money on an AVR, the AVR will AFAIK do most if not all (mostly all) of what the Oppo does, and sound just as good. If you have a good AVR all you need is a

the Oppo BDP103 is such a complete solution that it pretty well does away with the need for an AVR is you have powered speakers or power amp(s). But it doesn't have what most $500 AVRs do have that most people can benefit from, and that is some kind of system optimization facility such as Audyssey, MCACC or YPAO.
 

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In my opinion, here are the reasons why the Oppo BDP-103 might make sense instead of a $100 BD player (which you need not bother with, since you have a PS3):
  1. One wants to play SACDs.
  2. One wants to play DVD-Audio discs.
  3. One wants to use the video processing for DVDs or for other video sources (it has an HDMI input and can be inserted between your receiver and your TV, so everything could go through it; it has a second HDMI output that can send its audio to your receiver). If your TV has a great video processor, this is unnecessary. Also, I believe the PS3 does a good job of this, so you probably don't need the video processing for DVDs, regardless of the video processing capability of your TV.
  4. One wants to play other region BDs or DVDs and is going to also buy a hardware hack necessary for this (available from a third party on eBay and possibly elsewhere); the player can handle PAL formated video already.


If none of that applies to you, I would not bother with it. If any of it does, then you probably want to buy one.
 
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You're getting some good advice, OP. The Oppo players are well made, well supported and have amazing flexibility in terms of the kinds of disc media they can play. If you need that kind of flexibility (SACD etc) then it is a good option. But it won't play blu-rays any better than any other blu ray player and it won't sound any different, particularly if you connect it by HDMI which will use the receiver's DAC. I would only recommend it for people who buy the HD audio type discs. Otherwise, as Arny said, it is spending money that you don't need to spend.


I think I would wait years, not months before buying a 4K unit. The early models will be horribly expensive and there aren't any 4K discs available yet and you probably don't have a 4K TV in the first place. I own a total of 4 blu ray players. My favorite one is the Samsung 5900. It has played every blu ray Netflix has ever sent me. The others (Sony and Panasonic) have problems with some of them as some of the discs are dirty or damaged. So I can recommend the 5900 as the best blu ray player I've ever used. It also plays DVD and CD discs and has WiFi internet and network connectivity. It is over $100 but not by a lot.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"But it won't play blu-rays any better than any other blu ray player and it won't sound any different..."

Did you confirm this assertion in a double blind test?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubObjective99  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24553121

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"But it won't play blu-rays any better than any other blu ray player and it won't sound any different..."

Did you confirm this assertion in a double blind test?

As usual it is not the job of proponents of the above view of sameness to prove that which is already reliably indicated by technical tests, but rather it is for those who wish to believe that there is some kind of as-yet-unexplained unmeasurable, or measurable but below threshold artifacts that would explain how the same digital stream from two different good digital sources would sound different.


IOW


Why would the HDMI output of a BDP 103 sound better than the HDMI output of a ca. $100 BD player?


Why would the analog outputs of a BDP 103 running through the analog inputs of an AVR in bypass mode sound better than the relevant digital signal decoded by the digital processing in the AVR?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubObjective99  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24553121


Did you confirm this assertion in a double blind test?

No the last blind tests I did on disc players occurred before Oppo even existed. My assertion is made from a mountain of experience. If you have information to counter it, I would be interested in reading about it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24551370


4K is going to be the future. In a few years pretty much the only TVs available will be 4K. 4k Blu-ray is also coming with a lot of 4K movies too. Almost all movies shot the past few years have been in 4k resolution or higher. It won't cost the studios any more to make a 4k Blu-ray than a normal Blu-ray. Maybe not by Christmas but within a year you'll start to see 4k Blu-ray players for sale.

Not necessarily. 4K displays - maybe; though at the current rate of evolution, 4K won't likely be THE thing for very long. But so far, it's still a bit presumptuous to think it'll develop along the lines of 1080p technology without a strong source of content: broadcast will still be dominately 1080i and 720p; again, studios aren't really interested in another physical format from what I've seen; and streaming can barely handle 1080p now, 4K will be limited to select major markets. And then there's the upgrade hump: people bought into dvd, because for most, it was the first time they'd ever actually bought movies. But when you talk about asking them to rebuy something they already own, your market drops exponentially. BD is vastly superior to dvd, yet there's still a lot of justifying going with the cheaper release even among BD advocates even now. Size is a limiting factor for 4K, as most people are going to see a difference in screen resolution, but not physical resolution. In other words 1080p scaled will likely look almost as good considering the size constraints on visible detail of your typical, most popular sized consumer displays. I'd take a 1080p front projector over a 60" 4K flatpanel myself.


Regardless, I haven't heard much to get excited about in terms of 4K media. If it's even in the works, they're still keeping it pretty quiet. The only real news has been on the hardware side, and even that isn't extremely encouraging. Streaming may get greater 4K support than physical, the way things are headed. Like I said, studios don't see physical as being in their best interest now that digital is finally here, as long as they can keep digital growing. Personally, I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, but they've got a mountain of motivation pushing them there. The last time I was actively involved with Disney was a few years ago, but their focus had almost completely shifted towards digital delivery even then - that's all they wanted to talk about. At at the time, you'd have thought they were one of the lesser interested studios, based on their physical delivery: advertising digital less and they didn't have their own distribution yet. I think they still mostly use iTunes, but it's just a matter of time... Fox and Warner have been the most aggressive in pushing digital, at least openly. I imagine Sony might get behind 4K, if BD is used as the delivery platform. But Sony can hardly be bothered with anything but new releases on BD even now. There's no telling who they might farm it out to, until the format proves itself viable, assuming holographic goggle tech or something doesn't steal it's thunder. Sorry, but there still seems way too many hurdles, (some the size of brick walls) for me to get my hopes up about 4K just yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"No the last blind tests I did on disc players occurred before Oppo even existed."

This will give you the opportunity to test the Oppo product line, in particular, the Oppo BDP-103D and 105D with the Darbee processor. We need to perform the DBT on both the video and audio functions of the Oppo product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"My assertion is made from a mountain of experience."

For accuracy, we can't just guess based on former experience. To be fair to the manufacturer and to consumers, we still need to perform the double-blind test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"If you have information to counter it, I would be interested in reading about it."

The only test I have performed on the Oppo product is a sighted test which of course is flawed because it includes multiple biases.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubObjective99  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24555271


This will give you the opportunity to test the Oppo product line, in particular, the Oppo BDP-103D and 105D with the Darbee processor. We need to perform the DBT on both the video and audio functions of the Oppo product.

For accuracy, we can't just guess based on former experience. To be fair to the manufacturer and to consumers, we still need to perform the double-blind test.

The only test I have performed on the Oppo product is a sighted test which of course is flawed because it includes multiple biases.

The PS3 has been tested and tested and verified to offer excellent video reproduction with straight, non-processed 1080p BD. I've compared it to a number of players myself at FP screen sizes. There's no indication anything is tampering with the signal in the PS3, unlike the 103 (standard version), which has a mandatory amount of filtering enabled that can't be disabled as I understand it, at least not for output via HDMI 1. The Oppo is more likely to diminish PQ than the PS3, because it's picture processing is one of it's selling points and part of the focus of it's design. The PS3 has virtually none. It just decodes and outputs the signal as is. And being a digital signal, you don't have the diversity of performance like you did with analog dvd that also, typically had to be scaled in later years of the format.


Basically, it sounds like the Oppo 103 is doing exactly what the first gen Samsung was so adamantly (and erroneously) vilified for, as it was really just a scape goat for Sony and Lionsgate using some rather poor BD masters for some of their early titles. Some may subjectively prefer a filtered picture, especially for poorly compressed sources, like satellite. Others may like some filtering for getting rid of grain, as misplaced as such endeavor may be, and some of those no doubt only prefer it, because it's offsetting non-optimal sharpness levels in their own display calibration. But there's nothing to indicate the 103 could be innately superior in any way to the PS3 at passing un-altered 1080p content. The 103 Darbee edition might be an exception though.


I haven't seen what Darbee can do. It seems most love it, but some hate it. And, generally being in the less is more camp, I'm not convinced enough to fork out several hundred on the darblet or twice that on the Oppo. All the demo video and stills I've seen, haven't been very impressive to me. It just looks like it's doing some, potentially advanced, but seemingly rather simple contrast and gamma tweaking, both of which I can do on my own, if I wanted. And being very satisfied with un-altered 1080p FP and spoiled from years of virtually flawless, problem-free BD stability from the PS3, I'm disinclined to gamble $600 on a processing feature that may offer a subjectively marginal improvement, but could also prove just as distasteful to me, personally. In the digital world, you don't need to pay a lot for a players analog audio prowess. The Oppo's dvd reproduction would likely be of most benefit to me, but I very rarely watch standard dvds anymore, and it's been that way for many years now. My money would be better spent on a PS4. Now if Oppo could somehow do frame interpollation that rivals what I saw with The Hobbit Desolation of Smaug at the cinema, but without the unsightly artifacts of my projectors FRC, I'd buy one in a hearbeat.
 

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^ I own the BDP-105D. The point of my post was directed to the other poster (FMW) in regard to the importance of a DBT (including video) for any Oppo product.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SubObjective99  /t/1524712/oppo-blu-ray-worth-it-with-receiver#post_24555271

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW
"No the last blind tests I did on disc players occurred before Oppo even existed."

This will give you the opportunity to test the Oppo product line, in particular, the Oppo BDP-103D and 105D with the Darbee processor. We need to perform the DBT on both the video and audio functions of the Oppo product.

Trouble is, most of us get given nothing. If I wanted to test an Oppo I'd have to buy one. Why would I buy another BD player when I have three already?
 
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