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Optimal center channel volume?

8386 Views 18 Replies 7 Participants Last post by Ratman, Sep 13, 2019

JonfromCB

Discussion Starter · Sep 13, 2019

Are there thoughts or theories about best center channel volumes in relationship to left and right volumes that provide a better soundstage or imaging from a LRC setup? I understand there are many variables in play here, but I THINK I remember reading somewhere that "ideally" the center should be a couple of db higher than the L/R. Thoughts and input appreciated.

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

Leeliemix

· #2 · Sep 13, 2019

The center increase a dB or two will make the dialogue easier to follow while not being enough to make draw too much focus from the rest. Which is why so many do it. Its practical and works very well for lower volume casual tv watching while still working great for high qualiy movie soundtracks on bluray.

Edit: P.S. I use a 1.5dB center increase over auto setup levels, it helps a lot.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ratman

· #3 · Sep 13, 2019

I set mine to where it sounds best with my room, my speakers and seating.

Reactions: 1

m. zillch

· #4 · Sep 13, 2019 (Edited)

I do not advise overriding the results of the auto mic test for optimal performance. If you turn up the center channel then obviously it becomes louder and easier to hear but how many people do you know who apply a proper test to see if the experience is any different in actual use compared to simply leaving the center properly calibrated and turning up the master volume knob instead by the same number of dB? None that I know of. Instead people apply an improper test and studies have found small, increased level changes are always perceived as "better" when in truth they are simply louder.

If you intentionally mis-calibrate and crank the center you will narrow the sound stage and the volume of TV commercials will seem artificially boosted, the music and effects in movies will seem suppressed, plus your system will fail this image location test [if it were in 5.1]:

m. zillch

· #5 · Sep 13, 2019

Maybe someday in the future they will invent some sort of clever computerized system where rather than guessing what level to set all the speakers the system will have some sort of self-calibration device, capable of detecting far smaller level changes than the human ear, to set them as the content provider intend us to hear it, so there is no trial and error nor guesswork involved? . . . . OH wait, We have that now.

Reactions: 2

Leeliemix

· #6 · Sep 13, 2019

m. zillch said:
I do not advise overriding the results of the auto mic test for optimal performance. If you turn up the center channel then obviously it becomes louder and easier to hear but how many people do you know who apply a proper test to see if the experience is any different in actual use compared to simply leaving the center properly calibrated and turning up the master volume knob instead by the same number of dB? None that I know of. Instead people apply an improper test and studies have found small, increased level changes are always perceived as "better" when in truth they are simply louder.

If you intentionally mis-calibrate and crank the center you will narrow the sound stage and the volume of TV commercials will seem artificially boosted, the music and effects in movies will seem suppressed, plus your system will fail this image location test [if it were in 5.1]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N02Y7vaVDNo

One or two dB isnt much and the point is to hear voices easier without having to increase the master volume which also increases everything else and doesnt neccessarily make it easier to hear. (And can give you a headache)
Now those who increase 6dB or such do mess up the coherency of the soundfield a lot and should find other ways to clear things up (like positioning etc.)

Now if we could just get all mastering done without so many movies/programs with very hot centers or very hot effects things would be easier.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

m. zillch

· #7 · Sep 13, 2019

If one's goal is to increase dialog intelligibility and it's "SNR" at the expense of movie sound quality then of course we should increase the channel the dialog comes out of, the center, and decrease all the others since they are "noise" and the dialog is the "signal". But when if F's up other things like sound stage image placement and TV commercial volume, don't come crying to me. This is also why this common forum advice to crank the center somewhat is not condoned by any official party like Dolby, DTS, SMPTE, ITU, etc.. . . .

Ratman

· #8 · Sep 13, 2019

Seriously?
My goodness. What did "WE" do before calibration software?

Ron Popeil says, "set and forget it". It doesn't break any rules.

m. zillch

· #9 · Sep 13, 2019

Ratman said:
Seriously?
My goodness. What did "WE" do before calibration software?

Answer: Wing it and mis-calibrate often by several dB.

Alex F.

· #10 · Sep 13, 2019

JonfromCB said:
Are there thoughts or theories about best center channel volumes in relationship to left and right volumes that provide a better soundstage or imaging from a LRC setup? I understand there are many variables in play here, but I THINK I remember reading somewhere that "ideally" the center should be a couple of db higher than the L/R. Thoughts and input appreciated.

After the loudspeaker levels are calibrated I usually leave levels as is, but sometimes in films the center channel, surrounds, or sub level can be a bit too loud or soft, so I make small adjustments on the fly. I have the on-screen display shut off so others in the room are not aware of or distracted by my level changes. (Our Yamaha AVR has direct access to channel levels and I can read the AVR's front-panel readouts from my seat.) Conveniently, the temporary adjustments are erased when the AVR is shut off.

In short, I suggest calibrating first, then tweak as needed.

Ratman

· #11 · Sep 13, 2019

m. zillch said:
Answer: Wing it and mis-calibrate often by several dB.

And so what?
Do what you like in your home.

If one desires to crank up the CC channel/speaker volume.... Enjoy!

Ryan Statz

· #12 · Sep 13, 2019

Leeliemix said:
One or two dB isnt much and the point is to hear voices easier without having to increase the master volume which also increases everything else and doesnt neccessarily make it easier to hear. (And can give you a headache)
Now those who increase 6dB or such do mess up the coherency of the soundfield a lot and should find other ways to clear things up (like positioning etc.)

Now if we could just get all mastering done without so many movies/programs with very hot centers or very hot effects things would be easier.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

There are a lot of AVRs that have a setting to bump up the vocal channel for low-level/night listening without having to tweak any of those settings.

Ratman

· #13 · Sep 13, 2019

Alex F. said:
In short, I suggest calibrating first, then tweak as needed.

And... no one will knock on your door and take away your audio system if you don't follow the rules.

m. zillch

· #14 · Sep 13, 2019

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-can-i-avoid-turning-volume-hear-movie-dialogue

Alex F.

· #15 · Sep 13, 2019

Ratman said:
And... no one will knock on your door and take away your audio system if you don't follow the rules.

That is another reason why I have the on-screen display shut off when I make non-approved adjustments--no one else knows the seriousness of the crime being committed. I do not want witnesses.

Reactions: 2

jcr159

· #16 · Sep 13, 2019

First and foremost: tweak to what sounds best to you. It's not wrong to like what you like...

however... the auto level calibrations (unless the mic wasn't set up right which is a whole subject on its own) are correct.

no tweaking should be needed to get a good soundstage and dialog intelligibility. IF you find after listening that you feel its needed and like the results, good on ya, you found what ya like. Yay!

If not though, you likely need some room treatments, speaker placement optimizations, or both.. If the "best" soundstage came from setting the levels differently "as a rule of thumb", then they'd have just programmed the calibration software that way to set it up for us...

Mastering is set up with playback at the levels you get when equalizing the levels, but if you prefer things differently for whatever reason, that's not incorrect, but a preference. Hopefully the takeaway is that there might be a reason for the preference that could be a room acoustic issue. Or it's just what ya like...

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Ratman

· #17 · Sep 13, 2019

Alex F. said:
That is another reason why I have the on-screen display shut off when I make non-approved adjustments--no one else knows the seriousness of the crime being committed. I do not want witnesses.

Never underestimate the power of the internet. They're watching! Be very, very careful.
If you make adjustments... NEVER talk about it on a forum!

Alex F.

· #18 · Sep 13, 2019

Ratman said:
Never underestimate the power of the internet. They're watching! Be very, very careful.
If you make adjustments... NEVER talk about it on a forum!

Uh, oh!

What happens on AVS stays on AVS?

Reactions: 1

Ratman

· #19 · Sep 13, 2019

Depends.
Big nits or little nits. They're out there!

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