[lolittle]

Elberts thread regarding the benefits of Balanced AC got me thinking about my power situation. After much consideration, I've decided to FINALLY get started on at least one dedicated outlet. I'm currently using a Monster Cable PowerCenter THS 5000, plugged into a non-dedicated 15 amp line.


Eventually, all this will be feeding off the outlet or outlets:


1. Bryston 4B ST

2. Bryston PowerPac 250

3. Bryston 3B ST

4. Rel Strata III

5. Rel Strata III

6. Sunfire True Sub MkII

7. RPTV

8. Monolithic Sound P3 power supply

9. Pre/Pro or Receiver

10. Stereo Pre-Amp

11. DVD Player

12. CD Player


To all, here's my attack plan:


1. Get a 20 amp dedicated line with 1 hospital grade duplex outlet this month. ($150?)


2. Get a Balanced Power Technologies BP-2.5 (Ultra Edition) Balanced Power Isolator ($1199) or one of Alan Maher's Balanced Power units ($????) next spring.


I might get another 20 amp Dedicated Line with 2 hospital grade duplex outlets next spring for amps, etc. I'd really like to plug EVERYTHING into the BP-2.5, however.


With all that said, Here's my question. What is the optimum HT power configuration that can be procured for

 

[Mike Matheson]

lolittle,


If you're considering eventually running a second dedicated line, you might as well just go ahead and get it when the first is put in. The incremental cost is typically very low (vs. the cost later to have it put in).


There's lots of back and forth on the hospital outlets (often nickel-plated--no sparks in an oxygen rich environment) vs. commercial/industrial outlets. I've not done comparisons myself. I did go with three of the Acme silver-plated outlets, just based on hearsay. I think there are a lot of good options out there for outlets (Audio Asylum's had a lot of traffic on this topic).


I think you've got a lot of gear there if you really plan to plug it all into the BP-2.5 eventually (including the amps). While the continuous draw may be less than 20 amps total, if everything turned on at once I think you'd loose a fuse somewhere. Just guessing here though.


I've heard people describing good improvements using PS Audio's Ultimate Outlets as well--perhaps consider these as an option if there are any toys you can't plug into the BP-2.5.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

In my home theater, having plenty of dedicated 20 amp 10 guage wire circuits, I plug each of my five Bryston 7B power amps and three Aerial SW12 subwoofers into each their own dedicated circuit. I once had a VansEvers Unlimiter for each amp and circuit using Harmonic Tech Pro AC-11 power cords, but after adding internal Bybee devices on the AC power of all the Bryston and sub amps, I found that all amps sounded their very best plugged direct into their own dedicated wall outlet using the Granite Audio 560 power cords, with toroids each end (donut shaped) around the copper for high frequency noise filtering but no effective current limiting, which in demoing we heard with the Unlimiters in the chain. Therefore,

I recommend that you simply add some extra dedicated circuits, one for each amplifier (if it doesn't cost you all that much more), and that you plug your amps direct to the dedicated wall outlets.


I've also learned from experience that too many subwoofer locations can create nulls and cancellations and defeat your bass - go with two locations max but you can group your subs - I have two Aerial subs next to each other in front left room corner and one Aerial sub front right room corner, and with experimenting I found this sounded best!!! I used to also have five Vandersteen 2Wq subs used solely to extend each main speaker but

after having the Aerial subs for some time, I determined the Vandy subs were actually detracting from my sonics and they were sold.


One PS Audio P600, found used on www.audiogon.com , would be adequate to power your RPTV and other front end non-amplifier components and I believe would give you the best sonics for the buck based on my own experience. And prior to using PS Audio Power Plants, I used API Power Wedge Ultra balanced power conditioners and the Power Plants I found much more effective both sonically and visually.


I didn't get into the PS Audio Ultimate Outlets. The idea of having two extra connections, a power cord on each side of the Ultimate Outlet, I felt could be a bit current limiting on power amplifiers - and in fact, PS Audio later came out with a much more expensive Ultimate Lab Cable with their Lab Cable hard wired on each side of an Ultimate Outlet, which I think bears this out. But the Ultimate Outlet got me interested back in Feb. 2001 in inviting Don of Granite Audio over to demo his power cords, because his cords use toroids, just as does the Ultimate Outlet, the differences being that the Ultimate Outlets use the toroids only in the outlet, between two external power cords attached; whereas the Granite Audio power cord doesn't have the extra two attachments and has a toroid at each end

for better effectiveness in my opinion.


Just my two cents. Possibly this might go somewhat over your budget but gives you some food for thought. If you're interested in any of this stuff drop me an e-mail as I may know where you can get some pretty fair prices.

 

[Alan Maher]

lo:


Why not just build one or two units yourself? I could show you how to build a superior unit using standard medical grade transformers for 1/4th the price. You don't have to leap into 60v x 2 to get fantastic results. In my system I use a combination of a isolation transformer and a balanced unit. The filter design I came up with for the isolation transformer is easy to build, and vastly superior to a lot of the name brand audio products on the market today.


Once I get settled in Europe I will be getting involved with an on-line audio magazine. You can expect DIY power conditioner projects from me. The one I designed right now includes parts from Plitron, Hubbell, AuriCap, Shakti, EAR, and WireWorld. Nothing comes close to the price.



Alan Maher
http://community-2.webtv.net/audionutak

 

[showard]

The price difference between 1, 2, or 3 outlets was minimal here in Plano, TX. I think you should have as many outlets as you want installed the first time. Don't bother coming back later. I had three of them installed in my room. I hope they do not have to make any drywall cuts in order to pull the wire like they did at my place.


Use 10 gage wire, your electrician may call it 30 amp wire, no point in messing around with anything less. It is harder to work with because its stiffer so make sure you don't plan on installing any outlets yourself. (Yet another hard lesson learned.)


I installed Hubble hospital grade outlets where I have standard plugs (Like my Monster power center 5000) and direct wired where possible. I plan to direct wire my Richard Gray Power Company but have not had the time to complete the project.


A couple of things to insist upon when your contractor is on site: (Yet more hard lessons learned.)

A) Demand that all of your new outlets be hooked to the same phase. The breaker panel in your house has two phases. Very important that they all be on the same phase.

B) Demand that he tie all of the ground wires to the same bracket in such a way that they are all touching together at the panel. Don't let him ground at different points along the buss if physically possible.

C) Purchase an outlet checker at HD or Lowes for a few dollars and check each outlet yourself prior to plugging ANY of your equipment into the new outlets. This is a $3.00 insurance step and well worth it.


Hope this helps having been through this once before here in Texas!

 

[lolittle]

Folks, what is a fair price for dedicated, 20 amp, 10 guage wire circuits/outlets?

 

[KennyG]

Didn't someone here mention running dual runs of 14ga (or 12ga for 30 amp) to lower inductance?

 

[Alan Maher]

Yeah...what are you interested in, a star wire pattern? You use two 14ga hot, two 14ga neutral, and one 10ga insulated ground. A friend of mine used silver mil spec wire, and he loves the result. His noise floor dropped out of sight.


The dual conductors will lower the impedance on the ac main.



Alan Maher
http://community-2.webtv.net/audionutak

 

[KennyG]

Lynn there you have it, the wiring is the place to start...everything else is a plug-in or add-on. Once the wiring is done it's done, so why not spend the money to do it right the first time???

 

[lolittle]

Kenny, I agree with you completely. If I get time tomorrow, I'm calling an electrician for quotes on 2-4 dedicated, 20 amp, 10 guage wire circuits with hospital grade outlets.

 

[KennyG]

One other thing, Steve mentioned connecting your RPTV and other front end components to one PS Audio P600...I'm not sure that's a good idea.

If your RPTV is CRT based it probably uses between 500 and 700 watts just by itself (my two FPTVs use 600 and 690 watts) Either one of these would be more than the P600 can handle.

A good rule of thumb is to oversize your transformer based power supplies by 50 to 100%...your always want your components to see "unlimited" power.

Add up power consumption under max loads then multiply by two.

A 600 watt projector should be powered by a 1kva power supply .6kva is to small (which is what the P600 is)

Perhaps your Audio front end can run on one P600. In a high powered system a 600 watt power supply just doesn't go very far.

 

[Alan Maher]

Kenny is right!!! You want at least twice the amount of power than your system/component requires.



Alan Maher
http://community-2.webtv.net/audionutak

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I've talked with folks with RPTVs and they've been rated about 300 watts. Check your RPTV and I bet that's what you'll find. If I'm right, one P600 will be fine for your front end components and probably your RPTV, too.

 

[Alan Maher]

Also keep in mind a percentage of the amperage is turned into heat.



Alan Maher
http://community-2.webtv.net/audionutak