[Aegwyn11]

I'm shopping for a projector in the sub-$10k price range, and thought I had my options pretty well lined out. Turns out I don't and I'd like to see your opinions.


I was looking at something like the Sim2 D90 (or was it D80, can't remember). In any case, it looks like I might have an opportunity to grab one of the original C3X Lite's (720p) for about 10-15% more money.


I'm thinking this sounds like something I should definitely do...what does everyone else think? I know I'm losing chip resolution (720p instead of 1080p), but are the advantages of the C3X worth that, plus a little extra money?

 

[Chriscpm]

I was thinking this same thing. I'm surprised no one commented.

 

[Drexler]

Depends on your screen size and viewing distance. I would never buy a 720p unit as I like to sit close and have an immersive experience. However, if you like to sit further back and need a lot of light output, then it might be an option.

 

[Chriscpm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler /forum/post/15601371


Depends on your screen size and viewing distance. I would never buy a 720p unit as I like to sit close and have an immersive experience. However, if you like to sit further back and need a lot of light output, then it might be an option.

How close do you mean by close. I run a 720p projectors now (ht300extra). I've hear 1080p is overrated, but I still hesitate to get another 720p projector, especially with Blu Ray around now.

 

[dazzerxxx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegwyn11 /forum/post/15533355


I'm shopping for a projector in the sub-$10k price range, and thought I had my options pretty well lined out. Turns out I don't and I'd like to see your opinions.


I was looking at something like the Sim2 D90 (or was it D80, can't remember). In any case, it looks like I might have an opportunity to grab one of the original C3X Lite's (720p) for about 10-15% more money.


I'm thinking this sounds like something I should definitely do...what does everyone else think? I know I'm losing chip resolution (720p instead of 1080p), but are the advantages of the C3X worth that, plus a little extra money?

Not sure if support for 1080p/24 is important but IIRC the pre C3X "E" models don't support this. The "E" also brought better video processing i.e. 10 bit that provides a noticeable improvement. The D80 does support 1080p/24 and uses 10 bit processing.


There are pro's and con's to every model but if possible look at the "E" version and this is superior to the "lite". Obviouse thing to check if you haven't aleady is if you're sensitive to RBE that can be a problem for some with mono chip DLP's.


Have you seen both products in action first hand ?


D

 

[Drexler]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscpm /forum/post/15601680


How close do you mean by close. I run a 720p projectors now (ht300extra). I've hear 1080p is overrated, but I still hesitate to get another 720p projector, especially with Blu Ray around now.

I like to sit 1.1-1.3 screen widths away from the screen. In this case the added resolution (and possible less visible screen door effect) is readily appreciated. If you sit, I would guess, something like 1.8-2.0 or more screen widths away, the benefits of 1080p would be much less notacible. It all depends on your eye sight of course.


Also, the appropriate distance to 720p is just a crude estimate from my part. Don't take it as an absolute truth. No one can tell how objectionable the lowered resolution is to your eyes but you.

P.S. I agree that 1080p is overrated for tv's, not so for projectors...

 

[Chriscpm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler /forum/post/15602573


I like to sit 1.1-1.3 screen widths away from the screen. In this case the added resolution (and possible less visible screen door effect) is readily appreciated. If you sit, I would guess, something like 1.8-2.0 or more screen widths away, the benefits of 1080p would be much less notacible. It all depends on your eye sight of course.


Also, the appropriate distance to 720p is just a crude estimate from my part. Don't take it as an absolute truth. No one can tell how objectionable the lowered resolution is to your eyes but you.

P.S. I agree that 1080p is overrated for tv's, not so for projectors...

I think I'm about 12 feet or so from a 119 16x9 screen. There is definitely no screen door effect from there that I notice.


With that being said, does a used 3 chip 720p projector make sense compared to something newer in a 1080p single chip model? I'd hate to get it and not see a whole lot of improvement over my current 720p single ship.


My guests think it crazy to want a better picture, but it seems to look worse and worse to me as I start to notice the flaws.

 

[flint350]

I'm on the other side of that equation right now. I have had my C3X Lite for a couple of years and love it on my 10.5ft. wide scope screen. I sit about 1.3 widths away and see no screen door or other resolution related artifacts. It is still pretty bright with about 1000 hours on the bulb.


That doesn't prevent me from occasionally getting the don't-know-why resolution fever now and then. Especially when I see newer, less expensive 1080's like the promising Optoma HD8200. So I wonder in reverse. Is there any reason to sell or move my C3X Lite for an HD8200 with its better contrast and resolution? I'm tempted, but I can't make the pros/cons work out yet. The big loss would be 3 chip quality vs. single wheel. The other factors would be improvements. Tough call so far. Insight on this reverse form of the question would be appreciated also.

 

[Drexler]

Chris,


I think you would notice the increased resolution from your distance.


I'm not an expert on 3-chips, but the newer single chips should have way better contrast and be much sharper than older 3-chippers. Maybe the new Optoma could be an option?


Which are the flaws/limitations that you are annoyed with with your current projector? Also, what are you really satisfied with and consider a "must have" in an upgrade?

 

[Jason Turk]

Genereally I would not buy a C3XLite for slightly more than a D80E. Why? Because that is a bad price on a used one. I sold a C3XE (newest one before 1080) and it was $6500 10 months ago...prices have dropped since.


In truth, I doubt you would want to spend more than $3k or so on a used Lite (sorry but there are better out there if you spend more).

 

[Chriscpm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drexler /forum/post/15603055


Chris,


I think you would notice the increased resolution from your distance.


I'm not an expert on 3-chips, but the newer single chips should have way better contrast and be much sharper than older 3-chippers. Maybe the new Optoma could be an option?


Which are the flaws/limitations that you are annoyed with with your current projector? Also, what are you really satisfied with and consider a "must have" in an upgrade?

Good questions. I guess I was disappointed with the kick I got from HD-DVD and Blu-ray compared to movies in HD on Dishnetwork. On first glance they look the same. With A/B comparison, they still look pretty much the same. So I know technically there should be more there, but I don't see it.

I watch mainly sports and movies. With sports, I notice I can never quite make out the players names on the jerseys, unless i know what they say. With a regular DVD, I can't get decent shadow material, it sort of turns a weird purple/black. With an HD source, I tweaked it to get decent viewing of the stuff in the shadows. To get decent dark material, I need to turn it down quite a bit. I keep the brightness down at the verge of what I can tolerate. It in the basement, so its dark.

Last year I dragged a plasma down there to watch 2 games on the projector as a PIP and one on the plasma. The plasma looked sooo bright it ruined the presence of the projector.

I'd like to stick with a Seleco projector, since it will mount easily and I've had good luck with them.

 

[Aegwyn11]

Thanks for all the responses so far. Sorry for my absence, I've been very busy at work and been spending a good bit of my time at home working on the theater project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/15603245


Genereally I would not buy a C3XLite for slightly more than a D80E. Why? Because that is a bad price on a used one. I sold a C3XE (newest one before 1080) and it was $6500 10 months ago...prices have dropped since.


In truth, I doubt you would want to spend more than $3k or so on a used Lite (sorry but there are better out there if you spend more).

To clarify, my opportunity is for a -new- C3X Lite. I'm not really interested in going down the used path for a variety of reasons that don't need to be talked about here.


I was VERY much into this stuff a few years ago when the C3X first came out and remember how substantial an improvement the C3X was over the competition (this was the same time the Ruby was coming out as well). Because of how much better a picture I thought the C3X made than the Ruby, I became a bit tainted against 1080p. I realize things have changed a LOT in a few years, which is why I'm here asking the question.


Aren't the optics of the C3X going to be a good bit better than something like the D80? I was wondering if that would cause the overall resolution of the two systems to be closer than just 720 vs. 1080. Perhaps I'm totally wrong here...please help?


Also, the other thing I remember striking me about the C3X a few years ago was that it had color depth unlike anything I had ever seen on a single chip projector. My understanding was that this was a function of 3 DMD chips vs. 1 DMD using a color wheel. I don't see how that would have changed...


I did stop by the Sim2 room at CES and saw the HT5k, C3X1080, Lumus, and their new entry level D60. I have to say, I was pretty impressed by the D60 (And all the projectors in that price bracket that I saw at the show). What $5k gets you has come a long way in 2-3 years.


FYI, I stopped being able to notice rainbows with the single chip DLP generation from probably 4-5 years ago.


A little background about my project. It is a dedicated room...the wife has allowed me to do whatever I want. Thus, it will be totally light controlled, dark environment, etc. Room dimensions will be small (about 11x16), so I would expect to be sitting ?13? feet from the screen. I was planning on something like a 92" screen. Seriously doubting that I'm going to scope whatever I do...was not impressed by the scope stuff I saw at CES. Obviously, none of this is written in stone as I haven't even sheetrocked yet.

 

[Jason Turk]

Thanks for clarifying that was new...but, I still think there are better options for the same price range. I do think the D80E is a better projector in many ways than the C3XLite and if it is less money, and you want a Sim2, well worth considering.


As an FYI the D80E kills the D60 (and considering it is a good amount more money it should!).

 

[dazzerxxx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegwyn11 /forum/post/15606975


Aren't the optics of the C3X going to be a good bit better than something like the D80? I was wondering if that would cause the overall resolution of the two systems to be closer than just 720 vs. 1080. Perhaps I'm totally wrong here...please help?

IIRC a number of Sim2 products share common Fujinon lens models. The T1 on the D80E is I believe the T1 used on the HT380 and 3000E for example. In fact in many ways the HT380 is very, very similar to the D80E in side the case.

There was a D80 model but I assume you mean the newer D80E and not the old D80 ?


I believe the D60 is based on a Benq design and made in China rather than in Italy. The D60 and D10 appear to be more budget concious models aimed at pushing the Sim2 brand at the lower end of the market.


D

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx /forum/post/15621726


IIRC a number of Sim2 products share common Fujinon lens models. The T1 on the D80E is I believe the T1 used on the HT380 and 3000E for example. In fact in many ways the HT380 is very, very similar to the D80E in side the case.

There was a D80 model but I assume you mean the newer D80E and not the old D80 ?


I believe the D60 is based on a Benq design and made in China rather than in Italy. The D60 and D10 appear to be more budget concious models aimed at pushing the Sim2 brand at the lower end of the market.


D

Correct (and I have had them all).