[Steve Bruzonsky]

After two days and two lengthy phone calls with no help, I tried the third time online with success. HPs tech support, now outsourced to India, is generally the very pits.


My problem- bad wireless card apparently. they wanted me to reformat notebook and reload Windows XP and everything, and only then would they have had me ship them notebook for repair. But finally they agreed to ship me a new wireless card to install myself (easy)


Here's the online transcript:




Steven Bruzonsky: My case # 7336511922 and twice now your techs out of India have wasted my time and are no help at all.

Steven Bruzonsky: Be patient, look up my file, and I will explain the problem in more detail

Harlynn: Sure I will be glad to assist you in this regard.

Steven Bruzonsky: My problem is simple, the wireless network card worked only erratically. When it works, shows up on Device Manager and works fine. When doesn't work, doesn't even show up on Device Manager. Same goes for wireless button on computer, if turn on its still orange when doesn't work. Same goes for Network Places, if it in't working the wireless doesn't even show there.

Steven Bruzonsky: First time, tech tried deleting and reloading Broadcom software, which I had already tried, no change. He also tried reloading other startup stuff which I had tried and didn't help.

Steven Bruzonsky: First tech told me manager would call me as above his level. No one called.

Harlynn: As per the inforamtion provided by you it seems to be with the hardware issue.

Steven Bruzonsky: Second tech today lied telling me his name was Tom Smith - thats a US name, not an India name. He thought I was stupid.

Steven Bruzonsky: The tech today told me to reformat my computer and spend hours reloading Windows XP and other software. How rediculous. he refused to let me talk to supervisor. He admitted tech yesterday had said above his level and manager would call me.

Steven Bruzonsky: Right now I am talking to you wirelessly using a Linksys USB. works fine. How do you like that?

Steven Bruzonsky: The problem obviously is the notebook wireless card.

Steven Bruzonsky: All you have to do is mail me a new one to put in. Not hard, is it?

Harlynn: I apologize for the inconveinence caused to you.

Steven Bruzonsky: My sister in Minnesota is a R&D Director for Best Buy, where I bought this. Should I complain?

Steven Bruzonsky: I should mention my past contacts with folks from India has always been positive. I've had several doctors from India and they're fantastic with great customer service and bedside manner.

Steven Bruzonsky: But that's not the case with this tech support so far. Inexcusable. Refuse to even give me their names. Refuse to have Supervisors talk to me.

Steven Bruzonsky: I will never buy HP again and I've been a loyal repeat customer for years.

Harlynn: Well as per the information provided by you it seems to be an hardware issue with wireless card of the notebook.

Steven Bruzonsky: My prior laptop was

Steven Bruzonsky: Acer and they took care of me easy without these hassles.

Harlynn: As the notebook is still in warranty, I will be glad to place a mail in repair order for the notebook so that the notebook is picked up from you place and will be delivered at your place after the service is done.

Steven Bruzonsky: Yes, I tried to tell them. all they could do was read their form stuff and they couldn't think or react like concerned customer service reps at all.

Steven Bruzonsky: Since it appears to be a simple wireless card, why should I have the downtime without my laptop,which I need for my business? Why not do what Acer has done, mail me a wireless card with a return envelope to mail the old one back. Odds are high this will solve the problem and save everyone $$ and aggravation.

Harlynn: I really apologize for the inconvenence caused to you.

Steven Bruzonsky: The inconvenience is like HP has set up layers and layers of bureacracy to persuade customers to give up.

Steven Bruzonsky: An apology is not enough. Not when it the first rep had me open the laptop, take out the wireless card and put it back in, but that didn't help. I am easily capable of putting in the new wireless card, will take two minutes.

Steven Bruzonsky: And I am disappointed that HP doesn't identify its India techs or give a way to complain about them. that is very Un-American service.

Harlynn: Well if you are comfortable with removing nad replacing the wireless card we will replace the wireless card.

Steven Bruzonsky: If it was other than my wireless card, then this Linksys WUSB11 card I hooked up wouldn't have worked so easy.

Steven Bruzonsky: Thank you. I need the wireless card and two screws. I have one screw, but the second fell on the floor when the first tech had me remove the card and I can't find it in the carpet.

Steven Bruzonsky: Law Offices of Steven J. B

Steven Bruzonsky: ruzonsky

Steven Bruzonsky: 1152 E. Greenway St., Ste 5

Harlynn: Sure I will provide with the screws too.

Steven Bruzonsky: Mesa, AZ 85203

Steven Bruzonsky: Thank you. Can you e-mail me at [email protected] confirmation that you are mailing me a wireless card and screws?

Harlynn: We would be happy to process the request for a replacement wireless card. However, the wireless card is a collateral wireless card. This implies that the replacement of entails returning the faulty one. If the faulty is returned within 20 calendar days of shipment, the replacement would be free of cost under warranty conditions. If however, the faulty is not returned within the stipulated time, applicable charges would be levied.

Steven Bruzonsky: Out of curiosity - are you in the US, India or where. Cause if you're in India, you're great. Too bad the other two I talked to aren't like you. I do appreciate your help.

Harlynn: We would therefore need your credit card details. We do not seek credit card information through email as a policy. Please DO NOT provide any credit card information via email. Such sensitive information is sought only through phone. Please provide us with the convenient date (2 dates) and time so that we can contact you for the credit card information. Additionally, provide us with the shipping details to which we can send the wireless card to.

Steven Bruzonsky: THATS FINE. You can call me at ---------------- day and -------------------- evenings in Arizona.

Steven Bruzonsky: Mailing address:

Steven Bruzonsky: Law Offices of Steven J. Bruzonsky

Steven Bruzonsky: 1152 E. Greenway St., Ste 5

Steven Bruzonsky: Mesa, AZ 85203

Steven Bruzonsky: Office phone ____________________

Harlynn: To better assist you, may I have the Serial Number(eg: CNS34915MC) and Product Number (eg

S542U) of the Notebook? You can find the Serial Number and Product Number of the Notebook by locating on a sticker attached to the top or back of the Notebook.

Steven Bruzonsky: Give me a minute and I'll get for you

Harlynn: Sure take your time steven.

Steven Bruzonsky: HP notebook Pavilion dv6045nr

Product No. E24750

Serial No. _______________

Purchased 8-15-06 Best Buy, Mesa, AZ

Steven Bruzonsky: I appreciate your help. Do we have anything more you need from me?

 

[oneobgyn]

FWIW, Dell computer and AT&T now outsource to India.


I just cancelled a computer order with Dell and bought another Mac because of this and also changed my carriers. What is going on with this great country of ours?

It annoys the crap out of me when you finally connect with someone who has th gall to call himself Neil and speak with an accent fresh out of Bangalor and who has no concept of what you are trying to discuss.

 

[Curt Palme]

Hello my name is Frank and welcome to Kwikee Mart.

 

[eandoz]

It's not just in the u.s this crap is happening,we have the same problem here in OZ.

Companies are outsourcing there call centres to India.China's language kills are not up to par yet otherwise it would be John smith from China on the line with you.

It is extremely frustrating trying to communicate with these ofshore call centres,the problem is a conflict of two cultures,Indians are very very formal whereas us westerners like a bit more of a personal response when we have issues.Don't take it peronally,it's just the way they are,and I dont mean it in a deminishing way either.Having said that I wish corporations would realize just how frustrating all this is to us 'conumers'.Bring back good old fashioned customer service and stop treating us like cattle.

Dave

 

[Curt Palme]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eandoz /forum/post/0


.Bring back good old fashioned customer service and stop treating us like cattle.

Dave

Amen to that! The problem is, the consumer is the one that's driven this garbage in the first place. I've stood on my soapbox many times over this, I think Michael Grant called me out on it the last time and told me 'welcome to progress'.


I understood his point, but when people stop buying electronics at WalMart and car parts shops and put the magic back into a/v stuff, only then will the current state change. I'd rather pay $350 for a DVD player that lasts 10 years than $39 for one that lasts 92 days, 2 days past the warranty.


RCA started it back in the early 80s by selling TVs for $299 when the going rate was $549. They were #1 for 2 years or so, big billboards around Vancouver claiming to be the #1 in sales, but the sets were pure garbage. Massive warranty claims ended up taking 3 year warranties on consumer TVs to 1 year or less. THe problem was, it took years before one manufacturer had the balls to drop the warranty length, then everyone followed suie.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eandoz /forum/post/0


It's not just in the u.s this crap is happening,we have the same problem here in OZ.

Companies are outsourcing there call centres to India.China's language kills are not up to par yet otherwise it would be John smith from China on the line with you.

It is extremely frustrating trying to communicate with these ofshore call centres,the problem is a conflict of two cultures,Indians are very very formal whereas us westerners like a bit more of a personal response when we have issues.Don't take it peronally,it's just the way they are,and I dont mean it in a deminishing way either.Having said that I wish corporations would realize just how frustrating all this is to us 'conumers'.Bring back good old fashioned customer service and stop treating us like cattle.

Dave

Dave,nicely said. We do want to be careful and not be prejudiced just cause the call center folks are foreigners to us.


I see two concerns here:


1. For some of us, political, outsourcing takes jobs away from U.S. citizens.


2. Customer service: They don't have the customer service standards and hierarchy that we have here in the U.S. Here in the U.S., generally (not always) you will get a name or badge # to identify the employee, and if you complain and want a supervisor you will get one, and promptly.


"Sam" from India called me within an hour after the above exchange and arranged for shipping me the new wireless card. Funny. When I told him my address included "Suite 5", he kept on saying "Sleete 5". We politely discussed that. He said that in India it is "Sleete". Ha!


I will tell you this. If India customer service was anything as competent as the U.S. doctors from India I have had, then the customer service would be fantastic.

I think that folks from India are very adept at learning the system that they are in.

If U.S. companies would bring over top notch customer service managers and teach them how customer service should be done, my bet is they would learn.

 

[Curt Palme]

I had to deal with Dell in India as well. The front line customer service reps are useless to us that are somewhat technically inclined.


They are trained to ask the basics, is it plugged in, do you have a CD in the drive, etc. Vonage was equally useless with US based (I think) tech support on tying their box to a Pbx system. 3 hours on hold/tech support and I finally told them what they could do with their stupid modem/interface.

 

[Dizzman]

Everybody wants two things, products to get cheaper, and profits (for shareholders) to go up.


Well guess what... these two are mutually exclusive unless you make drastic changes. ANd using resources in other parts of the world is one of those changes. Unfortunately that is the way of the future.


I liked the video that wass on the web a while back of the soldiers in iraq who were having problems with a printer and could not get any help. they made a video of what happens when an HP printer meets an M60. It was pretty cool.

 

[tzucc]

Dizz, if you have a link to that video, I'd love to see it.

 

[Dizzman]

 http://youtube.com/watch?v=dodPR7h_ytI


Divine Justice

 

[Dizzman]

the nice thing about the military was thaat from time to time, you got to do to a product what you REALLY wanted to do.


I am reminded (from my own past) of an incident involving a faulty TV and a Carl Gustav and an 84 mm HEAT round.

 

[Chu Gai]

I didn't know Harlynn was a common name in India

 

[Milt99]

Dell tried outsourcing their corporate support to India but got so many complaints that they "on shored" it again.

The problem is consumers can't speak with a single voice.

It's one thing to have John Doe tell Dell etc., that he won't buy their stuff again but when a corporate buyer tells Dell they won't include them on their next PC refresh you get a response.

Off shoring tech support, imo, is a chickensh!t out for companies.

I'm thinking of changing my QWEST DSL for this very reason.

Steve B. you should definitely contact HP and tell them your feelings on this.

It's the only way things will change.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 /forum/post/0


Dell tried outsourcing their corporate support to India but got so many complaints that they "on shored" it again.

The problem is consumers can't speak with a single voice.

It's one thing to have John Doe tell Dell etc., that he won't buy their stuff again but when a corporate buyer tells Dell they won't include them on their next PC refresh you get a response.

Off shoring tech support, imo, is a chickensh!t out for companies.

I'm thinking of changing my QWEST DSL for this very reason.

Steve B. you should definitely contact HP and tell them your feelings on this.

It's the only way things will change.

HP won't give me management contact info. If anyone has it, or e-mail, please give me the info.


Seriously, my sister Lisa is an R&D Director for Best Buy. I e-mailed her my conversation and the difficulties I had with HP. Best Buy sells a lotta HP. I can tell you point blank that Best Buy will be concerned about this and will look into this.

 

[oneobgyn]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky /forum/post/0


HP won't give me management contact info. If anyone has it, or e-mail, please give me the info.


Seriously, my sister Lisa is an R&D Director for Best Buy. I e-mailed her my conversation and the difficulties I had with HP. Best Buy sells a lotta HP. I can tell you point blank that Best Buy will be concerned about this and will look into this.

Steve


Better yet, buy yourself a Mac and you will throw your headaches away. All support is right here in the good old USA--not that you will ever need their support however

 

[tzucc]

nice video Dizz... the 249 is a nice piece of work.

 

[Curt Palme]

For every good customer service story there's 10 bad ones, the bad ones get heard, the good ones generally don't. Steve, I'm sure your sister knows about this website:

http://www.bestbuysux.org/


I've had good experiences at BB personally, but will NEVER go back to their BB bought Future Shop (Canada only) where I've been lied to every time I've gone in there. I now deal with a smaller Canadian chain called A&B Sound when I need something consumer oriented.



My soapbox is, if everyone made a decent profit margin on what they sell/produce, we wouldn't have this issue. Everyone is so hell bent to sell stuff that they cut the bottom line so that after sales customer service suffers. Progress? I don't think so.

 

[Bulldogger]

I hate dealing with the Indian call centers too. Some very bad experiences. They read from a script and keep asking you the same damn question even though you just called them and described the problem. Mac still has U.S. customer service? If so then I'll switch to Mac just to keep from talking to one less call center in India. The last time I called a call center in India, the person did not know how to answer my question. She kept repeating some line from a script as to whether she had answered all of my questions. I said no and she did not know what to do so she kept repeating the script and I kept saying NO. Like talking to a robot. Finally after about FOUR cycles of this, she decided to talk to me as if I were an actual human being. Then she just explained that she did not know what to do. I suggested that she contact someone who did. Her supervisor solved the problem but what a hassle having to operate in this fashion.

 

[TheMadMilkman]

You know what frustrates me just as much as outsourced call centers? Phone menu systems. I know what I want, I know what I need to do, but all to often there's no way in hell I can figure out how to align what I want with your menus.


For example, last week I called Dish Network to change my father's subscription so that he would get more HD channels. He was under a legacy program that only had 5 HD feeds, when the newer program has 25+. Using the menu system got me locked into a menu with no choice but to upgrade him to ANOTHER legacy product, which I did not want to do. So I tried hitting 0 to get back to another menu, which didn't work. So I pressed it again. Then I hit it 5 more times.


Oddly enough, the system told me to hold and they'd have a rep on the line in no time. I got straight through to a US based operator who had everything set in under five minutes.


Moral of the story? Getting the job done quickly and efficiently (after a stupid menu) means Dish Network keeps my business.

 

[oneobgyn]

you can "usually" bypass a telephone menu system by frequently pressing "0"